Pullman question What do we really know???

[NW Mailing List]

Here is a listing of special trains to the Michigan-Michigan State football 
 game in 1959 
http://www.trainweb.org/annarbor/FDCairns/AnnArborRailroadFootballSpecials10-3-1959.htm
which shows Sunstar Rose in one of the consists with Norfolk and Western  
markings.  This strongly implies that it was painted for N&W.
 
Unfortunately no photos, just strong circumstantial evidence.
 
Dave Phelps
 
 
In a message dated 1/30/2016 8:03:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

What  do we, the N&WHS, really know? Number 1 ?

On the subject of the  12-1 Pullman sleeper cars is the following  correct?:

There were six cars bought by the N&W.
Of those  six;
We have photographic proof that two, Cuttyhunk and  Lowry, were painted N&W 
Red, lettered for NORFOLK AND WESTERN and had  stripes.
We photographic proof that one car, Chilhowie,  was left painted green and 
lettered for PULLMAN.
There  is no photographic proof that the other three cars, Galax, Vulcan 
and Sunstar  Rose, were painted and striped for N&W but they probably  were.

What do we, the N&WHS, really know? Number 2?

A  number of years ago, someone provided a list of the N&W Steel Passenger  
Car Fleet. It was very comprehensive. However, it does not mention anything 
 about Pullman Sleeper cars, the different types, their names, or color.  
Searching the "Archives" provides not much more information, only a very  
little on the S1 & S2 types. Vern French's book provides some more  
information, but, even that can be very sketchy, misleading and/or difficult  to figure 
out. And, as we have seen, there are mistakes in the "N&W  Handbook".

So, where does one go to find complete and definitive  information about 
the Pullman sleeping cars used on the N&W? How can we,  the modelers, 
historians and manufacturers be expected to get things right if  the information is 
for all intents and purposes  unavailable?

Rick,
In the underlined part of your posting below, did  you mean to write 
"Cuttyhunk" instead of "Chilhowie"?


On 1/28/2016 7:13 PM, NW Mailing  List wrote:



N&W acquired  six 12-1 sleeping cars from Pullman in the 1948 divestiture.  
Five  cars had an inside length of 73 ft 10 inches:  Chilhowie, Galax,  
Lowry, Sunstar Rose, Vulcan.  Another car, Cuttyhunk, was slightly  different 
with an inside length of 72 ft 10 inches.  N&W also  acquired two cars with 
10 sections, 1 drawing room, 1 compartment:   Island Regal and Island Rose.  
Some of these cars may have been  assigned to N&W service when the were 
owned and operated by  Pullman, They would have been Pullman green and lettered 
"PULLMAN" on  the letterboards.  After N&W bought them  they were painted 
tuscan red, striped and lettered like the  attached photo of Chilhowie 
photographed in Orlando, Florida on  June 25, 1955.  Although Pullman sold most of 
its  heavyweight fleet to the railroads, the cars were leased back to 
Pullman  for operation.  In most cases Pullman was responsible for painting  and 
maintaining the  cars.
 
At least two 10  section-lounge cars were assigned to N&W service but 
remained in  Pullman ownership.  The cars were painted in N&W colors but  
lettered PULLMAN on the letterboards.  Dinwiddie County had a single  vestibule and 
observation-lounge at its blunt end.  Norfolk County  had the same interior 
configuration, but with enclosed vestibules at both  ends.  Until circa 
1954 these cars  operated Norfolk-Chicago in Pocahontas service.   

The attached  photo is copied from Classic Trains magazine Summer 2008 
issue  vol 9, issue  2.
 
--Rick  Morrison

Moderator:
http://nwhs.org/mailinglist/2016/20160128.NW_Pullman_Cuttyhunk121.pdf





Jimmy  Lisle



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