NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 187, Issue 19
NW Modeling List
nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org
Sat Nov 24 20:23:38 EST 2018
I'll have to ask the man who did the file. He has the rights.
I'll let you know; how about an off list e address?
Frank Bongiovanni
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 24, 2018, at 5:26 PM, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> Frank
>
> Would it be possible to get a copy of the C&O gondola file?
> I have a guy in Missouri that I purchase 3D items fro at a really good price.
> I would like to get him the file and see what he would charge for one.
> He is working on designing the Otway station in n-scale for me.
> I have seen items on shapeways and wonder why they charge so much for items.
> Thank you for your time.
>
> Jeff Wood
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sat, 11/24/18, <nw-modeling-list-request at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> Subject: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 187, Issue 19
> To: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org
> Date: Saturday, November 24, 2018, 1:35 AM
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
> trucks (NW Modeling List)
> 2. Re: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
> trucks (NW Modeling List)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:34:59 -0500
> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
> trucks
> Message-ID: <mailman.4653.1543018945.9817.nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="UTF-8"
>
> Forgot something: senility isn't for
> the faint of heard.
>
> One of our guys who's very good at 3D
> printing did the design work for
> a model of the C&O gon and sent the
> design to Shapeways. He had them
> do one. The regular price for one
> would have been about $150, and I
> believe Shapeways has raised their
> prices since then.
>
> Frank Bongiovanni
>
> On 11/23/18, Frank Bongiovanni <fbongiovanni at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> A few years ago three of us
> started on an article on the battleship
>> gons of the the three Pochahontas
> roads. It started to swell into a
>> book that no one wanted to
> publish, even POD, so we're taking it back
>> to an article or a short series,
> and Ken has even expressed mild
>> interest. So without giving
> the whole thing away (LOL)
>>
>> We thought there would be about
> six battleship gon types. Over the
>> three roads, and two other
> one-offs, we identified over a dozen prior
>> to 1960. N&W had about 6
> (without digging for the Dow book),
>> Virginian had 6, C&O had
> one. The one-offs and rebuilds make the
>> numbers kind of fuzzy depending
> how you count.
>>
>> Getting away from the gons,
> N&W had at least two (I hope)somewhat
>> experimental 100 ton hoppers, both
> with six wheel trucks, and PRR had
>> one. It appears that these
> were annoying in most service, so the
>> larger size gons and hoppers
> didn't progress for a while.
>>
>> Modeling: there have been a few
> models of the Virginian cars, of
>> varying accuracy and
> quality. Westerfield did a wonderful GKa, and
>> I'm not sure if the new owners
> have rerun it or intend to. I'm not
>> sure what's more difficult:
> finding the kit, or finding one that has
>> been well put together.
>>
>> The Red Ball and Concept Models
> battleship gons are probably best
>> ignored, IMHO. They aren't
> right for anything, but maybe can be
>> bashed.
>>
>> Frank Bongiovanni
>>
>> On 11/23/18, NW Modeling List
> <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
>>> Ken:
>>>
>>> I agree that the Dow book
> covered the N&W battleship. I recall that it
>>> also
>>> covered a C&O and a PRR
> battleship, where I'm using "battleship" to cover
>>> any gon with 100t or higher
> capacity and 6-wheel, plain journal trucks.
>>> (The latter eliminates the
> modern 100t+ gons from consideration.)
>>>
>>> Didn't Westerfield do the
> N&W battleship? If so, even at $50+ per kit,
>>> that
>>> would have to be a FAR better
> option than going through the agony of
>>> developing a 3D model and
> having a bespoke printing done. I doubt that a
>>> printing service would charge
> less than $50 per car anyway, even if it
>>> was
>>> done as a "flat kit".
>>>
>>> -Eric Bott
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NW-Modeling-List
> [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org]
> On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of NW Modeling List
>>> Sent: Friday, November 23,
> 2018 07:33
>>> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>;
> NW Modeling List
>>> <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>>> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
> trucks
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> N&W built a one of a kind
> experimental hopper:
>>>
>>> http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=25241
>>>
>>> Perhaps that is what you were
> thinking of. I found no reference to an
>>> article in the index search,
> however, I believe that Andrew Dow covered
>>> it
>>> in his book.
>>>
>>> Regarding the 3-D printing,
> there is truly some excellent work being done
>>> on
>>> those type of things. In going
> to shows in the last year, I saw some
>>> beautiful work done on
> ET&WNC cars, and wondered the same thing. It takes
>>> someone to develop the
> drawings for such, which has to be a labor of love
>>> for someone to do.
>>>
>>> Since this is closer to a
> modeling subject, I am also copying it to the
>>> modeling list
>>>
>>> Ken Miller
>>>
>>>> On Nov 23, 2018, at 3:48
> AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Recent discussions with a
> friend on the VGN battleship gondola brought
>>>> to
>>>> memory of a 6 wheel hopper
> I thought was VGN, but could also be N&W.
>>>> There were either photos
> or drawings in the ARROW, which I have gone
>>>> through and found the VGN
> car, but not the style I am remembering.
>>>> A friend of mine had his
> father cut the shape out of wood some years
>>>> ago.
>>>> I got 6 wheel trucks for
> them, but never finished them.
>>>> Does anyone know or
> remember these cars, and where the drawing/photo
>>>> was?
>>>>
>>>> I know with all the talk
> of the manufacturers closing down, and really
>>>> putting the squeeze on
> available models, has anyone considered 3D
>>>> printing?
>>>> I have quite a few
> hoppers, excavators, front end loaders ect that were
>>>> 3D
>>>> printed. I know they are
> not perfect and need extra attention, but after
>>>> putting micro-train trucks
> under them, they look quite nice and work
>>>> fine.
>>>> 3D printing could offer
> unlimited items to manufacture, that otherwise
>>>> would never be made except
> for scratch building.
>>>>
>>>> PS in the March/April 2006
> issue of the ARROW, mine came with 2 front
>>>> covers, so if your issue
> is missing its front cover, I have it.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff Wood
>>>>
> ________________________________________
>>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
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> subscription go to
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>>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>>
>>>
> ________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 21:55:19 -0500
> From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
> trucks
> Message-ID: <mailman.4665.1543028268.9817.nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset=utf-8
>
> Eric
>
> This is not a gon, much less a
> battleship gon. It was an experimental, one-of a-kind
> hopper, class H-15, No. 76950.
>
> Dow had this to say about it:
>
> Another experimental car of 1963 did
> not last so long. This was the class H15, road number
> 76950, which was a 150 ton car built in September 1963 to
> examine the possibility of using such large cars in
> unit-train service. With a coupled length of 69? 3? it
> was nearly half as long again as the H11 and H13 100 ton
> cars. It rode on six-wheel trucks which used 61?2?x12?
> journals and roller bearings. The ends of the trucks
> projected beyond the ends of the car and thus, unlike the HR
> and HV designs of over 40 years earlier, excessively long
> slope sheets were avoided. Twelve pairs of discharge
> doors, much the same as those of the H13 car, were used, and
> in other details of design the H15 was very much an
> elongated version of the H13 design. However the
> center sill was a 41.2 lb. Z section. The sides were
> tied together with five tubular braces below the top side
> angles, and the slope sheets, again at 45?, ran up to the
> top end angles and dispensed with end sheets.
>
> The H15 was extensively welded. The
> excessive use of welding in a coal car can lead to rigidity
> and an inability of the body to absorb vibration. No doubt
> the use of welding was to save weight and, possibly, to
> experiment with welding techniques.
> Although the H15 was regarded as a 150
> ton car its rated capacity was reduced from 300,000 lbs to
> 290,000 lbs in 1965.
>
> The experiment did not last for
> long. Although its later rating of 145 tons recognized
> its limitations, the H15 had a cubic capacity which, loaded
> with 54 lbs. per cu.ft. coal, would never carry more than
> 133 tons. And, just as the H12 standard car had been
> judged by the harsh realities of operating economics, so was
> the H15. Its light weight per ton of capacity, using
> the 133 ton figure just mentioned, was 761 lbs. An
> equivalent calculation for the H11, already in service, was
> 713 lbs., and for the H11a, being designed in September 1963
> when the H15 was being built, gave a figure of 608 lbs -
> considerably better The extensive use of cars of the size of
> the H15 would have required considerable alteration of
> facilities such as those at Lamberts Point, and this
> contributed to its demise. Car 76950 was withdrawn
> from service in 1968.
>
> My commentary on 3-D printing was not
> an endorsement on doing this car, in fact it was unrelated
> to any particular car, but a comment in general on work on
> 3-D printed cars I have seen at shows in the past year.
>
> Ken Miller
>
>> On Nov 23, 2018, at 10:24 AM, NW
> Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
>>
>> Ken:
>>
>> I agree that the Dow book covered
> the N&W battleship. I recall that it also covered
> a C&O and a PRR battleship, where I'm using "battleship"
> to cover any gon with 100t or higher capacity and 6-wheel,
> plain journal trucks. (The latter eliminates the
> modern 100t+ gons from consideration.)
>>
>> Didn't Westerfield do the N&W
> battleship? If so, even at $50+ per kit, that would
> have to be a FAR better option than going through the agony
> of developing a 3D model and having a bespoke printing
> done. I doubt that a printing service would charge
> less than $50 per car anyway, even if it was done as a "flat
> kit".
>>
>> -Eric Bott
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org]
> On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
>> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018
> 07:33
>> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>;
> NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
> trucks
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> N&W built a one of a kind
> experimental hopper:
>>
>> http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=25241
>>
>> Perhaps that is what you were
> thinking of. I found no reference to an article in the index
> search, however, I believe that Andrew Dow covered it in his
> book.
>>
>> Regarding the 3-D printing, there
> is truly some excellent work being done on those type of
> things. In going to shows in the last year, I saw some
> beautiful work done on ET&WNC cars, and wondered the
> same thing. It takes someone to develop the drawings for
> such, which has to be a labor of love for someone to do.
>>
>> Since this is closer to a modeling
> subject, I am also copying it to the modeling list
>>
>> Ken Miller
>>
>>> On Nov 23, 2018, at 3:48 AM,
> NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> Recent discussions with a
> friend on the VGN battleship gondola brought to memory of a
> 6 wheel hopper I thought was VGN, but could also be
> N&W.
>>> There were either photos or
> drawings in the ARROW, which I have gone through and found
> the VGN car, but not the style I am remembering.
>>> A friend of mine had his
> father cut the shape out of wood some years ago. I got 6
> wheel trucks for them, but never finished them.
>>> Does anyone know or remember
> these cars, and where the drawing/photo was?
>>> I know with all the talk of
> the manufacturers closing down, and really putting the
> squeeze on available models, has anyone considered 3D
> printing?
>>> I have quite a few hoppers,
> excavators, front end loaders ect that were 3D printed. I
> know they are not perfect and need extra attention, but
> after putting micro-train trucks under them, they look quite
> nice and work fine. 3D printing could offer unlimited items
> to manufacture, that otherwise would never be made except
> for scratch building.
>>>
>>> PS in the March/April 2006
> issue of the ARROW, mine came with 2 front covers, so if
> your issue is missing its front cover, I have it.
>>>
>>> Jeff Wood
>>>
> ________________________________________
>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>>> To change your subscription go
> to
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List
> archives at
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>>
> ________________________________________
>> NW-Modeling-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-modeling-list
>> Browse the NW-Modeling-List
> archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-modeling-list/
>>
> ________________________________________
>> NW-Modeling-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-modeling-list
>> Browse the NW-Modeling-List
> archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-modeling-list/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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>
> End of NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol
> 187, Issue 19
> *************************************************
>
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