NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 187, Issue 19
NW Modeling List
nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org
Sat Nov 24 17:26:35 EST 2018
Frank
Would it be possible to get a copy of the C&O gondola file?
I have a guy in Missouri that I purchase 3D items fro at a really good price.
I would like to get him the file and see what he would charge for one.
He is working on designing the Otway station in n-scale for me.
I have seen items on shapeways and wonder why they charge so much for items.
Thank you for your time.
Jeff Wood
--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 11/24/18, <nw-modeling-list-request at nwhs.org> wrote:
Subject: NW-Modeling-List Digest, Vol 187, Issue 19
To: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org
Date: Saturday, November 24, 2018, 1:35 AM
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
trucks (NW Modeling List)
2. Re: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
trucks (NW Modeling List)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 16:34:59 -0500
From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
trucks
Message-ID: <mailman.4653.1543018945.9817.nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="UTF-8"
Forgot something: senility isn't for
the faint of heard.
One of our guys who's very good at 3D
printing did the design work for
a model of the C&O gon and sent the
design to Shapeways. He had them
do one. The regular price for one
would have been about $150, and I
believe Shapeways has raised their
prices since then.
Frank Bongiovanni
On 11/23/18, Frank Bongiovanni <fbongiovanni at gmail.com>
wrote:
> A few years ago three of us
started on an article on the battleship
> gons of the the three Pochahontas
roads. It started to swell into a
> book that no one wanted to
publish, even POD, so we're taking it back
> to an article or a short series,
and Ken has even expressed mild
> interest. So without giving
the whole thing away (LOL)
>
> We thought there would be about
six battleship gon types. Over the
> three roads, and two other
one-offs, we identified over a dozen prior
> to 1960. N&W had about 6
(without digging for the Dow book),
> Virginian had 6, C&O had
one. The one-offs and rebuilds make the
> numbers kind of fuzzy depending
how you count.
>
> Getting away from the gons,
N&W had at least two (I hope)somewhat
> experimental 100 ton hoppers, both
with six wheel trucks, and PRR had
> one. It appears that these
were annoying in most service, so the
> larger size gons and hoppers
didn't progress for a while.
>
> Modeling: there have been a few
models of the Virginian cars, of
> varying accuracy and
quality. Westerfield did a wonderful GKa, and
> I'm not sure if the new owners
have rerun it or intend to. I'm not
> sure what's more difficult:
finding the kit, or finding one that has
> been well put together.
>
> The Red Ball and Concept Models
battleship gons are probably best
> ignored, IMHO. They aren't
right for anything, but maybe can be
> bashed.
>
> Frank Bongiovanni
>
> On 11/23/18, NW Modeling List
<nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
wrote:
>> Ken:
>>
>> I agree that the Dow book
covered the N&W battleship. I recall that it
>> also
>> covered a C&O and a PRR
battleship, where I'm using "battleship" to cover
>> any gon with 100t or higher
capacity and 6-wheel, plain journal trucks.
>> (The latter eliminates the
modern 100t+ gons from consideration.)
>>
>> Didn't Westerfield do the
N&W battleship? If so, even at $50+ per kit,
>> that
>> would have to be a FAR better
option than going through the agony of
>> developing a 3D model and
having a bespoke printing done. I doubt that a
>> printing service would charge
less than $50 per car anyway, even if it
>> was
>> done as a "flat kit".
>>
>> -Eric Bott
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: NW-Modeling-List
[mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org]
On
>> Behalf
>> Of NW Modeling List
>> Sent: Friday, November 23,
2018 07:33
>> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>;
NW Modeling List
>> <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
>> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
trucks
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> N&W built a one of a kind
experimental hopper:
>>
>> http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=25241
>>
>> Perhaps that is what you were
thinking of. I found no reference to an
>> article in the index search,
however, I believe that Andrew Dow covered
>> it
>> in his book.
>>
>> Regarding the 3-D printing,
there is truly some excellent work being done
>> on
>> those type of things. In going
to shows in the last year, I saw some
>> beautiful work done on
ET&WNC cars, and wondered the same thing. It takes
>> someone to develop the
drawings for such, which has to be a labor of love
>> for someone to do.
>>
>> Since this is closer to a
modeling subject, I am also copying it to the
>> modeling list
>>
>> Ken Miller
>>
>>> On Nov 23, 2018, at 3:48
AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Recent discussions with a
friend on the VGN battleship gondola brought
>>> to
>>> memory of a 6 wheel hopper
I thought was VGN, but could also be N&W.
>>> There were either photos
or drawings in the ARROW, which I have gone
>>> through and found the VGN
car, but not the style I am remembering.
>>> A friend of mine had his
father cut the shape out of wood some years
>>> ago.
>>> I got 6 wheel trucks for
them, but never finished them.
>>> Does anyone know or
remember these cars, and where the drawing/photo
>>> was?
>>>
>>> I know with all the talk
of the manufacturers closing down, and really
>>> putting the squeeze on
available models, has anyone considered 3D
>>> printing?
>>> I have quite a few
hoppers, excavators, front end loaders ect that were
>>> 3D
>>> printed. I know they are
not perfect and need extra attention, but after
>>> putting micro-train trucks
under them, they look quite nice and work
>>> fine.
>>> 3D printing could offer
unlimited items to manufacture, that otherwise
>>> would never be made except
for scratch building.
>>>
>>> PS in the March/April 2006
issue of the ARROW, mine came with 2 front
>>> covers, so if your issue
is missing its front cover, I have it.
>>>
>>> Jeff Wood
>>>
________________________________________
>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>>> To change your
subscription go to
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List
archives at
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>>
________________________________________
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>>
________________________________________
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>>
>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2018 21:55:19 -0500
From: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
trucks
Message-ID: <mailman.4665.1543028268.9817.nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8
Eric
This is not a gon, much less a
battleship gon. It was an experimental, one-of a-kind
hopper, class H-15, No. 76950.
Dow had this to say about it:
Another experimental car of 1963 did
not last so long. This was the class H15, road number
76950, which was a 150 ton car built in September 1963 to
examine the possibility of using such large cars in
unit-train service. With a coupled length of 69? 3? it
was nearly half as long again as the H11 and H13 100 ton
cars. It rode on six-wheel trucks which used 61?2?x12?
journals and roller bearings. The ends of the trucks
projected beyond the ends of the car and thus, unlike the HR
and HV designs of over 40 years earlier, excessively long
slope sheets were avoided. Twelve pairs of discharge
doors, much the same as those of the H13 car, were used, and
in other details of design the H15 was very much an
elongated version of the H13 design. However the
center sill was a 41.2 lb. Z section. The sides were
tied together with five tubular braces below the top side
angles, and the slope sheets, again at 45?, ran up to the
top end angles and dispensed with end sheets.
The H15 was extensively welded. The
excessive use of welding in a coal car can lead to rigidity
and an inability of the body to absorb vibration. No doubt
the use of welding was to save weight and, possibly, to
experiment with welding techniques.
Although the H15 was regarded as a 150
ton car its rated capacity was reduced from 300,000 lbs to
290,000 lbs in 1965.
The experiment did not last for
long. Although its later rating of 145 tons recognized
its limitations, the H15 had a cubic capacity which, loaded
with 54 lbs. per cu.ft. coal, would never carry more than
133 tons. And, just as the H12 standard car had been
judged by the harsh realities of operating economics, so was
the H15. Its light weight per ton of capacity, using
the 133 ton figure just mentioned, was 761 lbs. An
equivalent calculation for the H11, already in service, was
713 lbs., and for the H11a, being designed in September 1963
when the H15 was being built, gave a figure of 608 lbs -
considerably better The extensive use of cars of the size of
the H15 would have required considerable alteration of
facilities such as those at Lamberts Point, and this
contributed to its demise. Car 76950 was withdrawn
from service in 1968.
My commentary on 3-D printing was not
an endorsement on doing this car, in fact it was unrelated
to any particular car, but a comment in general on work on
3-D printed cars I have seen at shows in the past year.
Ken Miller
> On Nov 23, 2018, at 10:24 AM, NW
Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
wrote:
>
> Ken:
>
> I agree that the Dow book covered
the N&W battleship. I recall that it also covered
a C&O and a PRR battleship, where I'm using "battleship"
to cover any gon with 100t or higher capacity and 6-wheel,
plain journal trucks. (The latter eliminates the
modern 100t+ gons from consideration.)
>
> Didn't Westerfield do the N&W
battleship? If so, even at $50+ per kit, that would
have to be a FAR better option than going through the agony
of developing a 3D model and having a bespoke printing
done. I doubt that a printing service would charge
less than $50 per car anyway, even if it was done as a "flat
kit".
>
> -Eric Bott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NW-Modeling-List [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org]
On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018
07:33
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>;
NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: 6 wheel
trucks
>
> Jeff
>
> N&W built a one of a kind
experimental hopper:
>
> http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=25241
>
> Perhaps that is what you were
thinking of. I found no reference to an article in the index
search, however, I believe that Andrew Dow covered it in his
book.
>
> Regarding the 3-D printing, there
is truly some excellent work being done on those type of
things. In going to shows in the last year, I saw some
beautiful work done on ET&WNC cars, and wondered the
same thing. It takes someone to develop the drawings for
such, which has to be a labor of love for someone to do.
>
> Since this is closer to a modeling
subject, I am also copying it to the modeling list
>
> Ken Miller
>
>> On Nov 23, 2018, at 3:48 AM,
NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
wrote:
>>
>> Recent discussions with a
friend on the VGN battleship gondola brought to memory of a
6 wheel hopper I thought was VGN, but could also be
N&W.
>> There were either photos or
drawings in the ARROW, which I have gone through and found
the VGN car, but not the style I am remembering.
>> A friend of mine had his
father cut the shape out of wood some years ago. I got 6
wheel trucks for them, but never finished them.
>> Does anyone know or remember
these cars, and where the drawing/photo was?
>> I know with all the talk of
the manufacturers closing down, and really putting the
squeeze on available models, has anyone considered 3D
printing?
>> I have quite a few hoppers,
excavators, front end loaders ect that were 3D printed. I
know they are not perfect and need extra attention, but
after putting micro-train trucks under them, they look quite
nice and work fine. 3D printing could offer unlimited items
to manufacture, that otherwise would never be made except
for scratch building.
>>
>> PS in the March/April 2006
issue of the ARROW, mine came with 2 front covers, so if
your issue is missing its front cover, I have it.
>>
>> Jeff Wood
>>
________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go
to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List
archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
________________________________________
> NW-Modeling-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-modeling-list
> Browse the NW-Modeling-List
archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-modeling-list/
>
________________________________________
> NW-Modeling-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-modeling-list
> Browse the NW-Modeling-List
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> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-modeling-list/
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