Vera Jct
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Thu Jun 19 12:04:49 EDT 2025
Jim,
That is an old "speed" definition used many years ago on the N&W
proper. That*/"aspect"/* in now called "Diverging Clear". The definition
is: "Proceed through diverging route, observing authorized speed through
turnout(s) or crossover(s)." The "authorized speed" can be found in the
"Employee Time Table".
Note that signal rules can differ from one RR to another. For
example, what was good for the Wabash was probably very different than
what was used on the N&W. Even districts across the N&W (proper) had
minor different aspects particular to that district. These differences
would also be found in the ETT.
Jimmy Lisle
On 6/19/2025 8:55 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
> All signal fans,
> I just found this definition/explanation for what a "diverging" route
> can be interpreted to be and it covers the case at Vera:
>
> image.png
> One of these days I hope to understand to signal a railroad.
> Jim Cochran
>
> On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at 8:47 PM NW Mailing List
> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> The operating book rules calls out the AAR rules in my '51 and '45
> rule book. That is speed signaling, although if you look at the
> rules as written they do a bad job explaining that. The only thing
> that usually drove medium speed was a diverging route in a turnout.
>
> Is there another facing point turnout ahead?
>
> David Baker
>
> On Wed, Jun 18, 2025, 6:44 PM NW Mailing List
> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> Grant,
> Thanks for the reply and great seeing you at the con as well.
> Your answer caused me to dig more deeply into the history of
> N&W aspects/indications and in particular the horizontal arm
> over vertical arm aspect that has most recently been referred
> to as "diverging clear". Please refer to the attached pages
> from N&W rule books as reference for what follows.
>
> In 1910 it was called "slower speed route clear" when used in
> conjunction with one high speed route and diverging routes.
> Seems clear this was speed signaling.
>
> In 1915 it was "proceed under control, being prepared to stop".
>
> In 1930 it was just "proceed". Does anyone have a copy of the
> rules between 1915 and 1930? I'd like to know what that one
> has to say.
>
> In 1945 it was " proceed through diverging route at prescribed
> speed". This looks like route signaling. Again if someone
> has intervening information, I'd appreciate knowing about it.
>
> In 1951 it was " proceed through turnout route at prescribed
> speed" which would seem to indicate route signaling, but the
> aspect name is "medium clear" which point toward speed signaling.
>
> In 1961 it was the same but showed the option of a colorized
> aspect.
>
> As far as I know this was maintained until the end of the
> N&W. The term through diverging or turnout route seems to
> reinforce my questioning its use where one line "joins"
> another. When I visited Tom Dressler many years ago, he
> informed me that going "through" a turnout was to take the
> diverging path while going "over" a turnout meant staying on
> the non-diverging route. Both of these would indicate a
> facing points movement and wouldn't seem to be readily
> applicable to trailing points movements.
>
> The NORAC definition of this aspect is something like proceed
> at medium speed until you train clears turnouts or
> interlockings and then proceed at prescribed speed. This
> would seem appropriate for such a situation as we find at
> Vera, but I have not seen this kink of definition in any
> reference for N&W signaling.
>
> Hope there may be more to the story and would welcome input
> from anyone who has experience/knowledge of how N&W signaling
> worked and the philosophy used by the system designers.
> Thanks,
> Jim Cochran
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 7:47 PM NW Mailing List
> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> Generally. . .
>
> Route signaling is speed signaling by implication.
>
> So, diverging aspects can indicate a lower speed through
> the diverging route of a turnout, compared to the adjacent
> track speed, and regardless of direction.
>
> So, diverging aspects will be used when facing points, and
> may be used when trailing points.
>
> . . . mostly.
>
> Good to see you and All at the Convention.
>
> Grant Carpenter
>
> On 6/8/2025 10:31 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>> Attached is a photo of Vera Jct. showing the signal
>> facing Peavine traffic. Why would the "main stem" from
>> Columbus have been considered a "diverging" route in this
>> case? Perhaps it is in some way analogous to middle
>> sidings being signaled for diverging aspects where they
>> rejoin the main. I tend to think of diverging aspects
>> being displayed to facing points movements where they are
>> signaled to take a route that "diverges" from the one
>> they are currently on. Of course there are no "joining"
>> aspects, so did the term "diverging" cover the act of
>> taking a route that your current route is joining? Any
>> thoughts will be appreciated.
>> Jim Cochran
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