Vera Jct

[NW Mailing List]

All signal fans,
I just found this definition/explanation for what a "diverging" route can
be interpreted to be and it covers the case at Vera:

[image: image.png]
One of these days I hope to understand to signal a railroad.
Jim Cochran

On Wed, Jun 18, 2025 at 8:47 PM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
wrote:

> The operating book rules calls out the AAR rules in my '51 and '45 rule
> book. That is speed signaling, although if you look at the rules as written
> they do a bad job explaining that. The only thing that usually drove medium
> speed was a diverging route in a turnout.
>
> Is there another facing point turnout ahead?
>
> David Baker
>
> On Wed, Jun 18, 2025, 6:44 PM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Grant,
>> Thanks for the reply and great seeing you at the con as well.  Your
>> answer caused me to dig more deeply into the history of N&W
>> aspects/indications and in particular the horizontal arm over vertical arm
>> aspect that has most recently been referred to as "diverging clear".
>> Please refer to the attached pages from N&W rule books as reference for
>> what follows.
>>
>> In 1910 it was called "slower speed route clear" when used in conjunction
>> with one high speed route and diverging routes.  Seems clear this was speed
>> signaling.
>>
>> In 1915 it was "proceed under control, being prepared to stop".
>>
>> In 1930 it was just "proceed".  Does anyone have a copy of the rules
>> between 1915 and 1930?  I'd like to know what that one has to say.
>>
>> In 1945 it was " proceed through diverging route at prescribed speed".
>> This looks like route signaling.  Again if someone has intervening
>> information, I'd appreciate knowing about it.
>>
>> In 1951 it was " proceed through turnout route at prescribed speed" which
>> would seem to indicate route signaling, but the aspect name is "medium
>> clear" which point toward speed signaling.
>>
>> In 1961 it was the same but showed the option of a colorized aspect.
>>
>> As far as I know this was maintained until the end of the N&W.  The term
>> through diverging or turnout route seems to reinforce my questioning its
>> use where one line "joins" another.  When I visited Tom Dressler many years
>> ago, he informed me that going "through" a turnout was to take the
>> diverging path while going "over" a turnout meant staying on the
>> non-diverging route.  Both of these would indicate a facing points movement
>> and wouldn't seem to be readily applicable to trailing points movements.
>>
>> The NORAC definition of this aspect is something like proceed at medium
>> speed until you train clears turnouts or interlockings and then proceed at
>> prescribed speed.  This would seem appropriate for such a situation as we
>> find at Vera, but I have not seen this kink of definition in any reference
>> for N&W signaling.
>>
>> Hope there may be more to the story and would welcome input from anyone
>> who has experience/knowledge of how N&W signaling worked and the philosophy
>> used by the system designers.
>> Thanks,
>> Jim Cochran
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 17, 2025 at 7:47 PM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> Generally. . .
>>>
>>> Route signaling is speed signaling by implication.
>>>
>>> So, diverging aspects can indicate a lower speed through the diverging
>>> route of a turnout, compared to the adjacent track speed, and regardless of
>>> direction.
>>>
>>> So, diverging aspects will be used when facing points, and may be used
>>> when trailing points.
>>>
>>> . . . mostly.
>>>
>>> Good to see you and All at the Convention.
>>>
>>> Grant Carpenter
>>>
>>> On 6/8/2025 10:31 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>>
>>> Attached is a photo of Vera Jct. showing the signal facing Peavine
>>> traffic.  Why would the "main stem" from Columbus have been considered a
>>> "diverging" route in this case?  Perhaps it is in some way analogous to
>>> middle sidings being signaled for diverging aspects where they rejoin the
>>> main.  I tend to think of diverging aspects being displayed to facing
>>> points movements where they are signaled to take a route that "diverges"
>>> from the one they are currently on.  Of course there are no "joining"
>>> aspects, so did the term "diverging" cover the act of taking a route that
>>> your current route is joining?   Any thoughts will be appreciated.
>>> Jim Cochran
>>>
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