signaling (was signal brackets)

Sat Mar 30 16:37:45 EDT 2024

 If he wants to keep his job, no engineer will proceed on what a dispatcher verbally tells him.  If the rules so dictate, he will not take a signal until he can physically see it.  The fact that "the dispatcher told me it was lined up" will not excuse a train crew in a board of inquiry.  Why do you think they have banner tests?
Tim Hensley

    On Friday, March 29, 2024 at 07:14:27 PM EDT, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:  

 With all due respect Larry, if you can't see the aspect, you don't know what is displayed. Your board may indicate that you have lined the route, but, you don't know what aspect is actually displayed."Infer" doesn't count. That is like me running on an "approach" while following a train, hearing that said train is up the road and me assuming that the next signal might be clear, when indeed it is "Stop"!
Jimmy Lisle

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> Date: 3/29/24 5:37 PM (GMT-05:00) To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> Subject: Re: signaling (was signal brackets) 
I would not say the dispatcher “has absolutely no idea” what aspect is displayed in the field. I am (among other things) a dispatcher at the Illinois Railway Museum running part of our railroad on a real CTC board. While the board does not directly tell me what is displayed in the field, I can infer what is displayed by what the model board is showing for block occupancy. I don’t need to actually see the signals. 

Despite what many think, the dispatcher’s control of an interlocked or control point signal is limited to “display stop” or “display the appropriate proceed signal based on block occupancy and switch position” (or in other words, act like an automatic signal). Clear a signal for a following move into an occupied block and the signal sits at Stop (because now acting like an automatic signal, Stop is appropriate for the block occupancy condition (assuming Restricting cannot be displayed)) but will clear to Approach without further Dispatcher action when the preceding train clears the block. Or line a switch for a normal route movement and clear the signal and it displays Clear (or Approach as appropriate) but if instead you first line the switch for the reverse route, when you clear the signal, it displays a diverging signal. The dispatcher does not tell it to display a diverging signal, rather the switch position causes the diverging signal when the dispatcher tells it to display the appropriate proceed signal.

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com

> On Mar 29, 2024, at 11:59 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> 
> Mike,
>     Stop and Proceed/Restricting signals are intermediate signals which are not controlled directly by the dispatcher. Their aspect follows the CTC system protocol automatically according to block occupancy, a track defect (such as a broken rail) or a "Current of Traffic" set up by the dispatcher at a control point. Stop signals are "Control Points" operated by the dispatcher.
>     The center lights were removed when the signal system was changed from "Position Light" (PL) to Color Position Light (CPL). The center light was not needed. The only indication that a light is burnt out is by someone physically reporting it. The dispatcher has absolutely no idea what aspect is displayed out in the field. That is why you will never hear the dispatcher tell a crew to "Take the green" despite what Lionel and MTH would have you believe!!! The dispatcher will only tell you "Signal indication".
> Jimmy Lisle
> On 3/29/2024 9:17 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>> Thank you Jim. 
>> A couple questions from even this "Intro to Signals 050" class
>> 
>> Why STOP AND PROCEED and not simply STOP?
>> Is this because the train has authority and/or there is no oncoming train in front of it?
>> 
>> Why were the center lights removed from the earlier position lights? Simply cost savings? It seems like a 3rd light is one extra protection if one of the others burn out. For that matter (extremely sorry for the tangent), is there some electrical indication that a signal light is burned out that is displayed in an operations office, or was it simply reported by crews?
>> 
>> Mike Rector
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