Milepost differnces

Tue Nov 22 15:03:31 EST 2022

Mileposts in West Virginia were changed in 1891, as the Ohio Extension was being built, to read miles from Norfolk, rather than miles from Bluestone Junction. Naugatuck is MP N-484.37 and Kenova is MP N-567.92 via the 12-Pole Line. Mileposts have not been changed since then with the exception of the Elkhorn Tunnel realignment. What has changed is the distance between mileposts due to track realignment over the years.

The 1916/1917 Chain survey of the Pocahontas Division, the basis for the division track charts, showed the distance from Bluefield to Williamson had dropped from 108.91 miles to 103.10 miles. Table 8-1 on Page 226 of the “N&W in West Virginia ~ 1881 to 1959” shows the distance between MPs as measured in 1917 and 1990 for MP N361.09 where the Pocahontas Division starts in Bluefield and MP-470 where the Pocahontas Division ended in Williamson. Some miles are short miles (less than 5,280 feet) and long miles (greater than 5,280 feet), but the mileposts are where were placed in 1891.

An exception is the Elkhorn Tunnel realignment that ended at the west end of Bridge No. 858 that was located at MP N378.74,.which was equivalent to old MP N379.94. The N&W decided to remove the old MPs between Bridge No. 858 and N-386 and eliminate MP 385 on the Lick Branch realignment. This results in the distance between MP N384 and N386 being 2,182 feet.

On the Big Sandy Line MP Na 0.00 is set at MP N384 at Naugatuck and MP Na 59.16 at Kenova equal to N568. In 1924 Kenova was listed as 567.92 miles from Norfolk via the 12-Pole line and 543.51 miles from Norfolk via the Big Sandy Line. In 1959Kenova was listed as 525.83 miles from Norfolk by actual distance.

The original Stations and Sidings lists used mileposts miles at least through 1924. The 1939 lists and subsequent use actual miles from Norfolk  for billing points. If billing points change at a location the mileage would change.

A history of the 12-Pole Line and the Big Sandy Low Grade, including its surveys, predecessor railroads, rationale for construction, and removal where appropriate,  are discussed in “The Norfolk & Western in West Virginia 1881 – 1959,” which may still be available from the NWHS commissary.

Alex Schust

From: NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2022 6:30 PM
To: 'NW Mailing List'
Subject: RE: Milepost differnces

Jeff

List of Station and Sidings does not  correspond with actual  Mile Post  placement  or operations it’s for accounting proposes and may not correspond  to actual MP placement like a track chat would  Mile post are still where they were originally placed with the exception of realignments like Elkhorn, Tunnels and the Big Sandy Line   . Big Sandy Line still uses Na 0-NA58 mile post just like it has sense it was built .  And original main and remits of it  still uses the N prefix  form Norfolk as originally placed with the noted exceptions

Larry Evans   

From: NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List
Sent: Monday, November 21, 2022 3:34 PM
To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Cc: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: Milepost differnces

Jeff and all, I saved an earlier email from Abram Burnett about the Twelve Pole that may help. As he notes, some of this info comes from Tim Hensley. The copied text from that email follows (it should save Abram some typing). Matt Goodman. 

The so-called "Twelve Pole Line" is in that Wannabe Category for me.  It was part of the N&W's original Ohio Extension of 1891, and was lousy with  adverse grades and tunnels filled with smoke from slow-moving engines.  Both ends of the Twelve Pole (Naugatuck and Kenova) lie on what is now the Kenova District of the Scioto Division.  (The distance from Naugatuck to Ceredo/Kenova was between 70 and 80 miles, via the Twelve Pole... I do not ahve a Time Table.)

The old Twelve Pole grade was bypassed by the 59-mile long, low-grade Big Sandy line (the present line) in 1904, and  was thereafter abandoned in pieces.  The last portion left in service was the west end of the Twelve Pole, between Kenova and Wayne (and operated as the "Wayne Branch,") until the anti-coal lobby finally shut down the big mine at Wayne in 2015.

Here is a VERY well illustrated webpage on the Twelve Pole, done by non-railroad people:

https://abandonedonline.net/location/norfolk-western-railroad-twelvepole-line/

A large portion of the Twelve Pole right-of-way, including the tunnels, is now occupied by a highway, and several videos have been posted to YouTube, taken from an automobile moving over the highway which used-to-be a railroad.  If interested, search YouTube for the words Twelve Pole.

Dr. Frank Scheer of the Railway Mail Service Library in Boyce, Va, started this latest Twelve Pole enthusiasm by sending out a 1916 map of the N&W's coal field lines, and everyone had to go to Mr. Tim Hensley for in-depth answers, he being the world expert on the Twelve Pole.  (Some say Mr. Hensley was an original employee of the Twelve Pole, back in 1891... but who knows for sure.)

The somewhat curious name "Twelve Pole" derives from the Twelve Pole Creek which the railroad follows for much of its route, and which flows westerly and empties into the Ohio River at Ceredo (Kenova.)  It is said that the Twelve Pole Creek received its name at the time George Washington was conducting surveys, the word "pole" being a surveyor's unit of measurement equating to 1/320th of a mile, or 16.5 feet.  Check Wikipedia if you want more information on the Twelve Pole Creek, the origin of its name, and the George Washington story. 

For my little contribution to this discussion, I shall add a list of the Telegraph Office Calls for the stations on the Twelve Pole, east to west.  The Hon. Mr. James Blackstock, Grand-Duke-by-Heredity of the Lynchburg & Durham RR, pulled me out of the ditch a few years back, when I was unable to complete this list, and my hat is off to him in this, and for so many other helps over the years.

Naugatuck NS

Lenore BQ

Canterbury CY

Hale DT

Dingess HM

Trace UA

Breeden GU

Wilsondale WI, WA, WX (at different times)

Doane DN

Dunlow DQ

Radnor GW

Coleman CO

Wayne MI

Ardel AD

Lavalette (DS, later DT)

Buffalo Creek BC

Ceredo PU

Where would we be without the aid of the good friends who have helped us and inspired us over the years?  As the ancient Proverb has it:  Iron sharpeneth iron, so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

 -- abram burnett

Descendant of the Scottish Clan MacTurnip

Matt Goodman

Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On Nov 21, 2022, at 1:20 PM, NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

 There is a local historian Tim Hensley you might email who is an expert on that area of track. You might email him and ask. He is truly a walking encyclopedia.

Larry Reed

His email is…

caseyatkenova at aol.com

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> 

On Monday, November 21, 2022, 6:23 AM, NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Are you familiar with the old twelve pole line that branched off at Lenore WV and went to the top of the mountain at Dingus, through the mile long tunnel going down through Wayne and onto Kenova? They retired that segment and opened the River grade running from Naugatuck WV along to Kenova WV. Shorter and river grade going toward Portsmouth Ohio.

I heard that George Washington surveyed the twelve pole line but am now certain of that being true.

Larry Reed

An old and more current picture of the tunnel at Dingus WV

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Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS> 

On Sunday, November 20, 2022, 9:43 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

I am confused on the milepost for Kenova to Portsmouth. I did a 6 year listing of stations and sidings for this line, August 1964-December 1964, 1966, 1969, 1972, 1977. One example is Hanging Rock, Ohio. 1964 is MP 541.03. 1977 is MP 543.64. The 1950 track chart has Hanging Rock as MP 583. That is a 40 mile difference. 

An 1899 alignment chart has Hanging Rock as 583. Most of the drawings are 583.

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Jeff Wood

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