VGN coal in 1953

Sat Aug 21 13:10:08 EDT 2021

Glenn, and others:

The N&W Pamphlet, Coal on the Move via the Virginian Railway (reprinted by
the Society in 1995.  Might still be some copies in a box behind something
at the Commissary)is very helpful.  I can't find the date of the original,
and it might be a bit after 1953 judging by the pair of Train Masters on
the cover.  Glenn, for the reader and researcher you are I'd urge you to
get or borrow a copy if you don't already have it.

That pamphlet, designed for current and potential customers I think, shows:

"The thousands of loaded cars converge on Elmore Yard where the Virginian
has leveled a curved valley into an efficient classification
yard......Elmore ....is the central marshalling point on coal's way from
mine to market.  The big trains are dispatched in all directions."

Discussing Roanoke:

"To facilitate movements, much coal to this point has been traveling on
'mine tags', an arrangement which allows the producer to complete
consignment after it has been weighed.  Accurate, tested scales are at the
west end of Roanoke yard.  Coal not destined for tidewater shipment is
weighted and billed here."

Later the pamphlet goes into the loading of colliers at Sewells' Point for
shipment to South America, Asia (!!), Europe, and northeast USA.

I'll let real experts explain more.  And if there's "bright line"
difference between a marshalling yard and a classification yard I'll let
the same guys explain it.

And, yes, I'd suspect that this pamphlet is part advertising/puffing and
there may be some simplification here.

Hope this helps, Glenn.  I'm going back to a "patient on the table" [a
locomotive on the workbench].

Frank Bongiovanni

On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 11:34 AM Frank Bongiovanni <fbongiovanni at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Rev. Fisher;
>
> Sadly, going to law school in the 1980's didn't help this Cleveland
> lawyer*/Crazy much with answering questions about VGN operations in the
> 1950's.  Again, I sure wish you had asked these questions 10 years ago.
> The number of people who have good answers to operational questions was
> higher than.  Although since some of the operational patterns still existed
> past the merger, we should let Gordon and Harry, and some others, chirp in.
>
> To the extent that my researches might help, a lot more coal ended up
> going north, through the C&O and NYC, than we might think.  That excellent
> picture of the "battleship gons" coming back empty from Rusell (KY)to
> Gilbert, on the C&O) is presumably from coal that h the old T&OC dumpers
> there.  Digging into what we've got, more coal did end up going to the
> Great Lakes.  Yes, a lot of coal dumped into boats at Hampton Roads and
> Sewells Point ended up going to Europe, South America(??), as well as New
> England.
>
> From pictures and what we got from Tommy Marshall while we was alive we
> know that some coal ended up going from mines on the Deepwater line, and
> even some some of the mines east of Elmore/Mullens, to the marshalling yard
> at Elmore, before going back the way it had come to Elmore.  One of the ops
> guys would know a lot more about where and when the coal might have gotten
> weighed or reweighed.
>
> I'll continue to dig in some of the Annual Reports and such that I've got
> while we wait for the guys who really know something to respond.  But
> thanks for the opportunity to take a fun break from Society budgets and
> stuff.
>
> *Glenn is perhaps referring to a reference by H. Reid to deciphering some
> of the joint trackage agreements VGN entered into.
>
> Frank Bongiovanni
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 8:40 AM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Should have been 212,045 *carloads, *Jim.  Sorry!
>> Glenn
>>
>> On 08/20/2021 9:06 PM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Tons or carloads? Accordingto Glen's text in his post, each carload was
>> one ton (or each ton was one carload) I would assume that export coal
>> loaded at Sewall's Point was either on line (delivered to the ship) or off
>> line (the ship would deliver it somewhere else), but could not be "both."
>> But which was it?
>>
>> Jim Nichols
>>
>> On Friday, August 20, 2021, 07:29:58 PM CDT, NW Mailing List <
>> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Here is a question for you Virginian "Crazies" out there.
>>
>> In 1953 the VGN reported to the ICC that it originated 212,045 tons of
>> bituminous coal that year.  Of that, 39,548 carloads (19%) were terminated
>> on line (on the VGN) and 172,497 carloads (81%) were delivered off line.
>>
>> Just where were the 19% delivered on line?.  Could several power plants
>> on the VGN as well as numerous, but that many, coal dealers take that much
>> coal?
>>
>> Deliveries off line to the C&O, N&W, NYC, SOU, SAL, ACL,, PRR, NS, and
>> NPBL took a bite, but not all 81%.
>>
>> The big question:  Where did export coal, a big factor, figure in.  Was
>> it listed under "on line," "off line," or both?  The ICC "distinctions" are
>> not helpful.  If "both" then what distinguishes "on line export coal"
>> from"off line export coal?"
>>
>> Perhaps we need some help from a Philadelphia (or Cleveland) lawyer.  I'm
>> from Philly, but no lawyer.  HELP!!!
>>
>> Glenn Fisher
>> Cornwall PA
>>
>>
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