VGN coal in 1953

[NW Mailing List]

Dear Rev. Fisher;

Sadly, going to law school in the 1980's didn't help this Cleveland
lawyer*/Crazy much with answering questions about VGN operations in the
1950's.  Again, I sure wish you had asked these questions 10 years ago.
The number of people who have good answers to operational questions was
higher than.  Although since some of the operational patterns still existed
past the merger, we should let Gordon and Harry, and some others, chirp in.

To the extent that my researches might help, a lot more coal ended up going
north, through the C&O and NYC, than we might think.  That excellent
picture of the "battleship gons" coming back empty from Rusell (KY)to
Gilbert, on the C&O) is presumably from coal that h the old T&OC dumpers
there.  Digging into what we've got, more coal did end up going to the
Great Lakes.  Yes, a lot of coal dumped into boats at Hampton Roads and
Sewells Point ended up going to Europe, South America(??), as well as New
England.

>From pictures and what we got from Tommy Marshall while we was alive we
know that some coal ended up going from mines on the Deepwater line, and
even some some of the mines east of Elmore/Mullens, to the marshalling yard
at Elmore, before going back the way it had come to Elmore.  One of the ops
guys would know a lot more about where and when the coal might have gotten
weighed or reweighed.

I'll continue to dig in some of the Annual Reports and such that I've got
while we wait for the guys who really know something to respond.  But
thanks for the opportunity to take a fun break from Society budgets and
stuff.

*Glenn is perhaps referring to a reference by H. Reid to deciphering some
of the joint trackage agreements VGN entered into.

Frank Bongiovanni



On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 8:40 AM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
wrote:

> Should have been 212,045 *carloads, *Jim.  Sorry!
> Glenn
>
> On 08/20/2021 9:06 PM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Tons or carloads? Accordingto Glen's text in his post, each carload was
> one ton (or each ton was one carload) I would assume that export coal
> loaded at Sewall's Point was either on line (delivered to the ship) or off
> line (the ship would deliver it somewhere else), but could not be "both."
> But which was it?
>
> Jim Nichols
>
> On Friday, August 20, 2021, 07:29:58 PM CDT, NW Mailing List <
> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
>
> Here is a question for you Virginian "Crazies" out there.
>
> In 1953 the VGN reported to the ICC that it originated 212,045 tons of
> bituminous coal that year.  Of that, 39,548 carloads (19%) were terminated
> on line (on the VGN) and 172,497 carloads (81%) were delivered off line.
>
> Just where were the 19% delivered on line?.  Could several power plants on
> the VGN as well as numerous, but that many, coal dealers take that much
> coal?
>
> Deliveries off line to the C&O, N&W, NYC, SOU, SAL, ACL,, PRR, NS, and
> NPBL took a bite, but not all 81%.
>
> The big question:  Where did export coal, a big factor, figure in.  Was it
> listed under "on line," "off line," or both?  The ICC "distinctions" are
> not helpful.  If "both" then what distinguishes "on line export coal"
> from"off line export coal?"
>
> Perhaps we need some help from a Philadelphia (or Cleveland) lawyer.  I'm
> from Philly, but no lawyer.  HELP!!!
>
> Glenn Fisher
> Cornwall PA
>
>
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