Virginian PA locomotive speed

Sat Feb 8 13:55:51 EST 2020

If you read Dave Stephenson’s intriguing report of “A J at 111” it sums it up this way.  When the T1 (no hyphen in PRR’s class designations) cameon the road there were considerable “teething troubles” and its ultimate performance depended on careful roundhouse preparation and skilled handling which weren’t always present.  I think a lot of PRR enginemen didn’t want to run the T1s right because they were replacing two K4 Pacifics and their two crews.

Stephenson chronicles the J which just came out of Roanoke Shop and went to work; no unusual roundhouse preparation and no special engine handling needed.

>From what I’ve learned from Louis Newton and others, handling a J on heavy trains on the Bristol Line was a lot like driving a sports car; they could go diving into those many curves, braking for the proper speed, and then accelerating out the other end and getting back to speed.  And another thing to remember is that in that era speed limits were usually honored in the breach.

- Ed King

From: NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List 
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2020 12:19 PM
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Subject: Re: Virginian PA locomotive speed

  "I'll take any N&W J any day over a T-1!
        Roger Huber"

Fully agree.
Bill Demarest

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 11:59:25 AM EST, NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 

Emotions also carry in to stuff like this too. With that said concerning the Pennsy T-1 the PRRT&HS magazine The Keystone has had several articles on the T-1 and many interviews/comments from PRR Operating men concerning these legendary speeds. Naturally the emotional aspect shows up but nevertheless so many Enginemen have stated these amazing speeds and there have been Dispatcher's Sheets showing matching speeds with trains over their divisions so those must be accurate. 

As to "official speed runs" as Jerome stated they had to be set according to designated conditions to be equal. Sort of like the folks who seek entry into Ripley's. Specific, set conditions must be met to make things equal and fair.

While the PRR T-1 is far from my favorite steam locomotive I have to admire it's ability to move trains quicker than most engines. These articles mentioned also bring to light much of the denigration of the T-1's slipperiness. Basically they were extreme engines, purposely built for speed and hauling long trains. When improperly or poorly handled they were more than a handful but with a skilled Engineman could produce amazing performance. I think that can be said about most steamers.

I'll take any N&W J any day over a T-1!

Roger Huber 
Deer Creek Locomotive Works

On Saturday, February 8, 2020, 05:30:22 AM CST, NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 

Personal opinion:  Land speed records should be accepted only if standardized 
conditions have been established in advance.  Example: records in track and field
require an eight lane track; specified head wind / tail wind, etc.

The claim of 112.5 mph for NYC 999 is dubious; because of known factors of
boiler capacity and cylinder volume; also because observations were largely estimated.

The 'World Record' of 126 mph for Mallard is likewise dubious, because it was established 
on a downhill grade and documented by what some consider as a couple of 'blips' on the
chart.

>From what I have read, the reported 140 mph for a T-1 is too poorly documented to
be accepted as fact.  But 'legends' seem to have a life of their own.

Jerome Crosson.  Formerly NJ; now NWHS residing in St. Peters MO.  Maybe I'll see
you at NMRA 2020 in St. Louis.

-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Fri, Feb 7, 2020 6:05 pm
Subject: Re: Virginian PA locomotive speed

What’re your thoughts on the anecdotal reports of PRR T-1’s hitting the 140 mph mark west of Crestline, OH?

It’s been a while but I think the first time I read that might’ve been in Alvin Stauffer’s book on Pennsy Power.

Patrick Whalen
Radnor, PA

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 5:07 PM NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

  Thanks for the info. Wow. I didn’t think they could go that fast. 
  -Phil Miller

  From: NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 2:51 PM
  To: NW Mailing List
  Subject: Re: Virginian PA locomotive speed

  With the 69” drivers and the cylinder dimensoins, the PA’s could be expected to cruise at 85 MPH range.  The N&W 100-series engines could be expected to run in the same range.

  The Js can’t be considered in comparison with ANY other steam locomotive.  They were so well designed including their counterbalancing that they could operate comfortably at driver RPMs in excess of 500 and could reach speeds in excess of that.  

  Remember that if a locomotive  operating a a speed equalling their driving wheel diameter, those wheels will be turning up 336 RPM.  There were many locomotives that could operate in the 400 RPM range.  There were others not comfortable at 336 (the Atlantic Coast Line’s 1800-series Northerns, for example).

  - Ed King
  From: NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List 
  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 12:13 PM
  To: 'NW Mailing List' 
  Cc: NW Mailing List 
  Subject: Virginian PA locomotive speed

  Hello,
  I wondered if anyone can tell me how fast the Virginian PA passenger locomotives could or did run?  I’m wondering about their designed top speed and normal schedule running speed. I’m sure it’s slower than the N&W J’s but would they have been comparable to older N&W passenger engines? 
  Phil Miller

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