The other side of the mountain

Wed Jun 8 20:20:49 EDT 2016

The new tunnel was drilled through solid rock at a lower elevation than the coal seam. The first tunnel had been drilled through the coal seam itself.
Jim Nichols 

    On Wednesday, June 8, 2016 1:55 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

 Alex,Thanks so much for the entries from the Coaldale Branch revaluation survey of October 1916.  I pieced them together with the Society's document HS-D10246 to form a scale picture of what the spur might have looked like at that time.  One thing that was interesting to me was that the tipple depicted in 1916 appears to have been located prior to the sharp curve in the spur where it bent back around the mountain at about the mid-point of the spur.  The "L" shaped outline of the tipple shown on the survey leads me to believe that this would have been the second tipple at Coaldale because the tipple in the picture I sent would have had a straight, rectangular outline.  This would be in keeping with the upgrading and replacement rate for such faciliities in other locations during this period.  For example, the first tipple was built at Crumpler after the turn of the century.  This wooden tipple was completely replaced by a new steel facility in the early 'teens and then a brand new tipple was constructed to replace that one in the early '30s.  Things were evolving quickly and makes the job of piecing together how things looked at a particular point in time quite challenging.  All of your efforts in this area are to be most highly commended.As to the relation of the Coaldale mine to the West portal of the New Elkhorn tunnel, based on my crude scale map, it would seem that the closest that the spur tracks came would be roughly 500 feet from the W. portal and there may have been a significant difference in elevation as well that I cannot determine from the information that I have.  So, it would appear that the new tunnel did not utilize any of the existing works from the Mill Creek/Coaldale mining operations.Thanks again for your help.Jim Cochran.  
On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 7:10 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Jim, Your questions joggled my memory. Last fall I scanned the Coaldale Branch revaluation survey of October 1916 for a project I was thinking about before I got wrapped up in the Buchanan Branch book. Scan 0075 shows the Coaldale Branch (P35) in relation to the main line P. The West Portal was located at Survey Station 859+07.9. Note the smokestack to the right. Pages are read from the bottom up. Scan 0036 shows switch (survey station 0+00 for P35) for the Coaldale Branch located at main line survey station 859+19 or 11 feet from the west portal. The switch for the first siding on the Coaldale Branch is located at Survey station 1+53.5 or 153.5 feet from station 0+00. Scan 0037 shows the coal company water tanks and the siding rejoining the branch line at survey station 8+30.5 Scan 0038 shows the switch leading into the coke ovens at 8+55 and a cross-over Scan 0039 shows multiple cross-overs and the tipple located at station 18+09.5 Scan 0040 shows you the continuation of the branch line on the other side of the tipple Scan 0041 shows you the last switch and the end of the branch at station 35+90 making the branch line 3,590 feet long. The last switch allows for a 221-foot tail track, but there are multiple switches that would allow cars to be pushed under the tipple from a number of locations. Since coke production was shut down at Coaldale in 1914 the track configuration may have been different  from the 1916 survey. Alex Schust
Moderator:
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 From: NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2016 9:58 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: The other side of the mountain Alex, thanks for the info.  The map confirms the location of the coke ovens.  I am assuming that the mine/tipple was located at the end of the spur, which was usual situation.  My remaining question(s) is about that location (end of the spur) with respect to the West portal of the New Elkhorn tunnel.  The Society's document HS-D10246 shows, I believe, a fairly significant falling grade for the spur, but on the copy I have, I can't make out the numbers.  I'm just wondering if it got down to the level of the new tunnel.  The plan also seems to show a tram line running above the coke ovens and around the hill almost to the end of the spur.  Again, I have only a low-res copy of the drawing, but I don't see any indication of the mine facilities unless it is the three small rectangles located at about the point where the end of the spur crosses what appears to be a creek based on the close spacing and chevron character of the contour lines.  Did this creek have a name?  I assume it was a tributary of Elkhorn creek which originated near the West portal of the old tunnel.  This layout would seem a little strange to me as in most cases I have looked at, the spur would run substantially past the tipple as storage track from which cars could be gravity loaded.  Then again, in the ones that I have looked at, the spur ran up-grade to the tipple.  Perhaps operations were different in cases where the grade was opposite.  Could someone with access to a better copy of HS-D10246 check to see if there is any information about the tipple/facilities location.  Thanks again for the help.Jim Cochran  On Mon, Jun 6, 2016 at 7:03 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:Jim, The Coaldale map shows you the mine spur in relation to the tunnel. The N&W map provides you an indication of the spur and the location of the coke ovens. The post card view provides you a view of the main line and the Coaldale Spur as well as the relative location of the tipple. Mines and mining communities were normally built and mining coal before the railroad spur was built in the 1890 – 1910 time period. Alex Schust  Moderator:
 http://nwhs.org/mailinglist/2016/20160606.Coaldale_tunnel.jpg http://nwhs.org/mailinglist/2016/20160606.Coaldale_map.jpg http://nwhs.org/mailinglist/2016/20160606.NW_map_2.jpg
From: NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2016 7:18 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: The other side of the mountain The initial building of mine facilities and the railroad on the East side of Flat Top Mountain has been fairly well chronicled by Shust and Cooper among others due to these being some of the first installations in the opening of the Billion Dollar Coal Field (Alex and Mason please chime in with corrections where I go astray and elaborations/additions where you may have them). John Cooper opened his operation at the head of Mill Creek and the N&W built a branch to service him in 1884. Cooper appears to have been working both sides of the creek with his appropriately named West (Sterling) and East mines both loading through a single tipple that straddled the creek. A picture of this facility appears on page 14 of “Bluestone” by Shust, Cooper, Bowen and French. When the N&W decided to push the Elkhorn Extension through the mountain at the end of the Mill Creek branch, John Cooper was compelled to relocated his processing/loading facility. He opened the West Fork mine and tipple and brought the product of his other mines here and it appears that this arrangement remained stable for a good number of years.The details of what was transpiring on the West or Coaldale side of Flat Top Mountain during this period are fewer and less clear. It is my understanding that even before the old Elkhorn Tunnel was completed, multiple coal mining facilities were put into operation by Crozier, among others. I suppose they piled their product up waiting for the railroad. In “Bluestone” Shust, et al. Say John Cooper drove a haulway in parallel to the N&W's tunnel and built a tipple for the Coaldale mine at it's West opening. The N&W built a spur off the mainline at the West poral of the old Elkhorn tunnel that went around the West face of the mountian and I assume extended this tipple, but to me at least, the exact location of this facility is unclear. The few pictures I have seen of the beginning of this mine spur show no evidence of the mining operation but they are all taken quite close to the railroad tunnel. I understand that the banks of Coaldale coke ovens started a bit beyond this point and continued to the tipple/mine location which is said to be nearly on the McDowell/Mercer County line. Some of the things that I would like to know about the history of this location are, first, where exactly the Coaldale tipple/mines were located relative to the West portal of the NEW Elkhorn tunnel. Second, where is the new Elkhon tunnel located relative to Cooper's mine haulway mentioned above (could it be that portions of this haulway were incorporated into the new tunnel?). Third, how close to the mine was the tipple located and what haulage method was used. I ran across the attached picture of the tipple the other day. It is not of the best quality and I cannot make out any railroad or tram tracks. To me it appears that might be constructed to allow mine cars to enter from both ends and dump in the middle. Hopefully, omeone with more savvy about these early operations can shed some light on exactly what we are looking at. Thanks in advance for any help/additional information on these early operations that transformed the N&W into what we all know and love. Jim CochranModerator:
 http://nwhs.org/mailinglist/2016/20160605.Coaldale_Mine.jpg

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