Express Boxcar ?
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Sun May 22 17:50:50 EDT 2011
Just to clarify, I don't think any B-8's were modified for use in passenger train service; there was a small group of cars that were in dedicated less-than-carload (LCL) service; these would have most likely been in the consists of local freights. LCL was not handled as such on passenger trains that I am aware of.
Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2011 1:32:02 PM
Subject: Re: Express Boxcar ?
In support of Jim's thesis, compare the side sill shapes. The cars in the Thieme photo have side sills like the BS/BSb in that picture. In contrast, here's a B-8 from the NWHS Archives -
http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=1272 . Also, this picture confirms Jim's point about the doors.
So, while apparently some B-8's were modified for this kind of service, that's not what's in the Thieme photograph.
Dave Phelps
In a message dated 5/22/2011 10:24:23 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
This photo is on page 24 of the Thieme book. These are not Class Ef box express cars; those cars had an inset door, like a baggage car, that opened by sliding it inside the body; additionally, the doors were shorter in height and there was a section of the side that was "solid" above the door opening. Here is a link:
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns1715.jpeg
The cars in the Thieme photo are definetely freight boxcars that have been converted for passenger train service. These are not Class B-8 boxcars; the B-8 cars had an 8-foot wide door and clearly these are 6-foot wide doors.
I believe these are Class BSb boxcars; here is an image of the Class BS boxcars:
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/F1/NS3230.JPG
At some point, these cars were rebuilt; some were made single door cars with a door opening of 6-foot and reclassified BSb. The info I have suggests the original class was built in 1927-28 time frame. The Railroad Spec - Bill of Materials is No. 373 and a General Arrangement Drawiing of G-27252. The BSb class is what I believe to be represented in the Thieme photo.
As Gordon has pointed out, cars in passenger service require different equipment. My "guess" is these cars were excess boxcars that were modified to run in passenger service; they were pressed into service as mail storage cars and used during the Christmas season. Remember, in the 1950s, there was no UPS or FedEx; and the REA relied on the railroads as well. Another "guess" is that once converted, these cars were simply stored when not needed. Perhaps somewhere in the Archives there is documentation of this conversion.
The B-8 cars were virtually brand new when this photo was taken by Mr. Thieme. The N&W would not have made extensive changes to a new car for a temporary service. There were some cars, classed B-8A I believe, that were in dedicated LCL service.
Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD
----- Original Message -----
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2011 11:33:36 PM
Subject: Re: Express Boxcar ?
Dave,
Here are a few comments that others may be able to augment. First, I'm not convinced that the two box-express cars are B8's. Second, whatever they are, in order to operate in a passenger train they would have to be equipped with a passenger-type air brake control valve, a communication signal line and a steam trainline. So, equipment converted like this should be listed somewhere by the N&W.
I found information on Class Ef box express cars No. 220 - 228 and 230 - 239 in N&W Motive Power Data Book No. 1. These are the only box express cars listed in the two copies of Data Book No. 1 that I checked. One copy is dated Aug. 15, 1951 and the other is dated April 1, 1953, so these bracket the listed date of August Thieme's photo, Dec. 6, 1952.
Both copies of Data Book No. 1 have the same information for the Class Ef cars, viz., No. 220 - 228 "Roanoke Shops 1929," and No. 230 - 239 "Converted from BSb box car 1941." So, these must have been the cars in service when Thieme took his photo. Incidentally, t he Class BSb box cars had "Dreadnaught" corrugated ends similar to the ends visible in the photo.
Gordon Hamilton
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Mailing List
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 8:50 PM
Subject: Re: Express Boxcar ?
A Google search took me to the OGR Forum, where someone pointed out that per the NWHS web site, N&W had converted some B-8 boxcars to express service. If you look closely at the end corrugations of the first car, it screams "Pullman PS-1" at you, i.e. B-8. However, a quick look through my reference materials yielded no details, listing of cars converted, or installation of passenger air brake systems. So, that's about all I can contribute - hopefully others have more information.
Dave Phelps
In a message dated 5/20/2011 7:43:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
Can someone enlighten me as to what class of box car is seen in the following photo behind the K1 locomotive?
http://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=5556
What color they may they have been painted?
Jimmy Lisle
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