"Bottling the Air"

[NW Mailing List]

Mike

I am not certain if you are asking if the rules prohibit moving the  
car until air is on the car again or not. As far as I know, no rules  
prohibit movement of a car without air, as many other responders told  
you.

Many times, back in the days, a car would be spotted for an industry  
to unload, but the industry might have gotten several cars to unload,  
but only one place to unload at, so cars had to be moved. Since  
getting a train crew in to move a car or two was not easy, or cheap,  
various ways of moving cars were devised.

Those including having the car roll by releasing the hand brake and  
gravity if the siding permitted, or pushing the car by hand  
(certainly not an easy task with friction bearings) moving the car  
with a car mover like a tractor, forklift, etc.).

Slightly more commonly was to use a car jack, which is a large pole  
with an end designed to rest on top of the railhead, and with a  
jacking motion, pushes up against the wheel and against the rail. It  
was a slow process, but I moved my caboose 4-5 car lengths with one.  
It is not easy, nor quick, but it does work.

Ken Miller

On Oct 25, 2010, at 8:51 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:


> Interesting discussion and I appreciate the responses. One more  

> question: If you let bleed the air out of train car, can you not  

> move it unless you hook it up to an air supply from a locomotive?

>

> Mike Weeks

> Brody School of Medicine

> Greenville NC

>

> On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 5:20 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing- 

> list at nwhs.org> wrote:

> When I started working as a car inspector on SCL in 1971 at  

> Collier, the yard foreman(Conductor) bled the cars off when he  

> walked and put on the chalk marks indicating the track number that  

> the cars were to be switched into.

>

> Walt Gay

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: NW Mailing List

> To: NW Mailing List

> Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 1:57 PM

> Subject: Re: "Bottling the Air"

>

> Jim,

>

> The process of getting the cars bleed off, at least at Roanoke, has  

> changed through the years. Thirty years ago (and before), N&W  

> employed "air bleeders". These men's sole job consisted of bleeding  

> the air off the trains after they arrived in the receiving yard.  

> Either before, or after, the car department finished inspecting an  

> inbound train, the air bleeders, as instructed by the yardmaster,  

> would walk the entire train, bleeding the air off all the cars,  

> except, leaving enough air and/or handbrakes to ensure the cars  

> would not move.

>

> When a yard engine was coupled to a track to hump, the brakeman  

> would then remove any remaining brakes (air or hand).

>

> At the present time, the bleedding of the cars is handled by the  

> car department (car knockers, car monkeys, etc), who bleed the cars  

> as they inspect the inbound trains. Train or yard crews still  

> handle the brakes, as necessary.

>

> Jeff Sanders

>

> --- On Mon, 10/25/10, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>  

> wrote:

>

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: Re: "Bottling the Air"

> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Date: Monday, October 25, 2010, 12:41 PM

>

> What was done at Bluefield was simply a variation of what they  

> still do in "hump" yards (where retarders are used instead of  

> riders). Which makes me wonder - how do they go about releasing the  

> brakes on cars that are humped? I can see the men working the cut  

> levers at the Radnor hump in Nashville, but I don't see them doing  

> anything with the angle cocks. In Bluefield there were riders in  

> proportion to the length of the cut to do the braking, and there  

> was a big motor car which brought the riders back up to the scale  

> house. Once in awhile, not enough riders would get on a cut, and  

> there would be a big derailment when the cut got down to the cars  

> already at the east end.

>      As to the length of time to pump up an entire train, that is  

> why N&W put the second air pump on the S1a's and retrofitted the  

> S1's. I can remember a railroader saying that the first S1's  

> assigned to Williamson took a long time to pump up the train. (they  

> were accustomed to the two pumps on a Z1a) Shortly afterward, the  

> 200 came out of Roanoke with two pumps. How C&O got by with one  

> pump all those years is a mystery. They obviously had a different  

> operating philosophy from N&W.    Jim Nichols

>

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 10:12:46 AM

> Subject: Re: "Bottling the Air"

>

> Gene

>

> Technically I would seriously doubt that.

>

> What was done on what you saw, and someone who actually was a  

> brakeman/conductor like Jeff could confirm. In Bluefield yard, and  

> other places, the cars were set out on tracks, and a certain number  

> of cars had hand brakes tied down. That would depend on the size of  

> the cut as to how many brakes were tied down. Once hand brakes were  

> tied down, the switch engine would cut off, the air on the cut was  

> dumped, causing an emergency application, but hand brakes had  

> already been applied. Over time, the air system would leak off,  

> depending on how long they had sat.

>

> Once the yard shifter came in and coupled on to the cut, and  

> applied its independent brake (for the locomotive) to hold it all  

> in place. The brake systems on the cars had probably sat long  

> enough that most if not all the air had bleed off the system, but  

> the brakemen would walk along the cut to the triple valve on each  

> car, and bleed off the remaining air, to release all air brakes.  

> The brakemen did not couple the air line, therefore the hand brakes  

> were all that would hold the cut. The hand brakes would still be  

> on, once the air had been bleed, the brakemen would go along and  

> release the hand brakes, the switch engine would pull back out,  

> with the cut, into the clear, then shove the cut towards where they  

> were to be put, if they were sorting cars, one man would pull the  

> cut lever between the cars, and a brakeman would ride the cut, if  

> needed for controlling the speed with the hand brake, while the  

> cars rolled down into its track and couple with the other cars in  

> that track, the brakeman would tie down the hand brakes, and the go  

> back and do it again with another cut, etc.

>

> Generally handing rolling cars, not coupled to a locomotive, was  

> rarely done with air in the system. As Harry reported, air pumping  

> can take some time to fill the entire train line. You used to see  

> with the diesels, running at high RPMs while standing, the  

> engineer, is running the diesel up to run the compressor faster,  

> and pump air through the train quicker. A number of factors can  

> determine how long it takes to pump a train, including, of course,  

> train length, cold weather, how many leaks are in the system and  

> how much initial terminal time that crew wants to report on their  

> time sheet! I've heard of occasions where it would take several  

> hours of pumping time to release all the brakes in a coal train.

>

> In my younger days, when I was riding my bicycle down to the track,  

> I'd sit and watch, and see eastbound coal trains get stopped by the  

> signal at VN before going into South Yard, once the signal cleared,  

> it might take them 30-45 minutes to pump air before they moved, and  

> that was in good weather. They were great days, and I wish I had  

> the interest and time to do that today, but alas, I have neither  

> today.

>

> Ken Miller

>

> On Oct 25, 2010, at 9:12 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

>

>> Ken;

>>

>> Bluefield had a natural grade in both the East and West yard with  

>> the high point being in the area of the Round House. I remember as  

>> a young fellow in the East End of Bluefield, watching the "yard  

>> shifters" sorting the cars. There would be a number of cars  

>> released to freely roll to an appointed switch to make up trains.  

>> The Yard brakeman with his brake stick would control the speed  

>> until making couple with the other cars. I remember watching the  

>> men try to time the coupling just right and jump up in the air so  

>> as to miss the coming jolt of the sudden stop. I assume that free  

>> roll had to be done by "bottling the air", which was a common  

>> practice even in the late 50's. Also I remember watching "road  

>> shifters" push cars up to a speed and then stopping the locomotive  

>> allowing the cars to run freely though a switch, either coming to  

>> a stop on their own, or making couple with other cars.

>>

>> Gene Arnold

>>

>>

>> "Bottling the air" which I think, is now prohibited by most rule

>> books, means to close the angle cock (air line) on both ends of the

>> car or cut of cars before separating them from the train. That way,

>> air stays in the system, and does not dump the air to emergency on

>> that car or cut of cars. It is, among other things, made to speed up

>> operations, as with air already in the train line of those cars, it

>> means that the locomotive air compressor, does not have to run as  

>> long

>> to pump air back into the system, which can be a considerable amount

>> of time, meaning the crew can get underway sooner.

>>

>> If the air is dumped from the car or cars, it sets those brake  

>> systems

>> into emergency, and to release those brakes, the air system has to be

>> pumped up again from the locomotive. By bottling the air, it means

>> that only hand brakes, or chocks may be holding the cut of cars in

>> place, which can lead to a drift off, or runaway, or difficulty

>> coupling if the brakes are not holding well.

>>

>> Ken Miller

>>

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