[steam_tech] Re: TRAINS.com latest- can steam make a comeback?

[NW Mailing List]

Apparently you did not catch my previous posts wondering whether the Class A regularly hauled 7500 ton trains over 60 mph.  I had been wondering if this was an urban legend.  

Likewise, the corroboration that they did indeed haul such heavy trains at such a speed on TRAINS.com, the line whether steam can make a comeback. 

If you check LeMassena's "Turntable" in the January 1974 TRAINS, you will find EMD performance figures that a single SD45 can haul a 5000 ton train at 35 mph, two at 51 mph, three at 62 mph, and four at 70 mph.

To haul a 7500 train over 60 mph, then, is the work of 4 1/2 SD45s. 

Figure three SD45s can haul a 7500 ton train at 51 mph, then. How fast could three 4300 hp SD70s haul it? This is not quite 20% more power than the SD45s. It takes 50% more to haul it 62 mph. So only 20% more would fall far short of 60 mph. 

What is well documented but little realized is that diesels are very, very expensive on fast, heavy trains. The railroads dieselized on fast, light trains and slow, heavy trains, on which the diesel's advantages are most apparent. Within a decade of dieselization, they had to run fast, heavy trains, on which it is a different story.

Any more specifics on the 1200s hauling 7500 ton trains at 60 mph would be most germane.

Again, let's get 1218 back into shape to do it again. Three SD70s trying the same thing could be the steam/diesel test that really proves something. 

--- On Mon, 5/26/08, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: [steam_tech] Re: TRAINS.com latest- can steam make a comeback?
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Date: Monday, May 26, 2008, 3:41 PM

 Speed is all about horsepower.  I'm not enough into Diseasels to know how much HP an SD 70 has, but I think its around 4000.  Three SD 70s would have about twice the HP of an A.  No contest!
pete groom
On May 26, 2008, at 8:23 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:



Note: forwarded message attached.


From: "herbgarratt" <herbgarratt at yahoo.com>Date: May 25, 2008 9:48:37 PM PDTTo: steam_tech at yahoogroups.comSubject: [steam_tech] Re: TRAINS.com latest- can steam make a comeback?Reply-To: steam_tech at yahoogroups.com

Wooly, Bill, et al,

 After the stunning vids I've seen of that gorgeous lok, reading this 
 about makes me weep!

 Cheers (if that is even appropriate? ),
 Oz Pete

 --- In steam_tech at yahoogro ups.com, <wooly421 at .. .> wrote:
 >
 > Is  n't the 1218 about all cut up as far as boiler etc. & just put 
 back together for display at Virginia Museum of Transportation after 
 the last steam no steam deal on NS. She was saved to start with when 
 she was a portable boiler somewhere down there in the south
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > ---- william wendt <wholelephant@ ...> wrote: 
 > > Maybe this will settle somthing.
 > > 
 > > Let's see what 1218 can do with a 7500 ton train on straight, 
 level track, maybe even where the Class A's regularly hauled such 
 trains 60 mph or so.
 > > 
 > > And let's see what three SD70s can do with such a train. My guess 
 is they will not quite make it to 60 mph.
 > > 
 > > And of course we keep close track of the fuel and water 
 consumption.
 > > 
 > > Let's see what is more economical by today's prices to run heavy 
 trains at such speed.
 > > 
 > > The capital costs are more speculative. The prices of diesels are 
 well known, but what it would cost to produce steam locomotives in 
 any quantity is speculative indeed. 
 > > 
 > > And if we did produce new steam, it would be with the 
 Porta/Wardale boiler, Lempor exhaust, poppet valves, and 300 lb 
 pressure. How much these would be worth is speculative too, but some 
 reaonable estimate should not be beyond reach. 
 > > 
 > > It is speculative too how much interest rates will rise, but not 
 especially speculative they will rise considerably in the reasonably 
 near future. Higher interest rates will greatly favor the lower 
 capital costs of steam. Not only that, but they will put a premium on 
 train speed, not unlike on the old Great Northern silk trains. 
 > > 
 > > This would be a steam/diesel comparison at the speeds that matter 
 now. And it is not that diesels cannot haul heavy trains fast. It is 
 that they are very expensive in such service, at least by data from 
 twenty years ago. 
 > > 
 > > So let's let 1218 strut her stuff. Even her seven decade old 
 technology might be more economical in such service than the latest 
 diesels. 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > >       
 > > 
 > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
 > > 
 > > Yahoo! Groups Links
 > > 
 > > 
 > >
 >

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