Was Re:]"Takin' Twenty with theVirginian Brethren" but . . .

NW Mailing List nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Fri May 16 00:08:38 EDT 2008

Gary -

I only was present on the first run and rode the engine from Montgomery to Hinton. I don't recall that Steve Wickersham had to use the injector at all; whether the FWH failed later I don't know. I can't see the engine being allowed to run without both methods of getting water into the boiler available. If I'm not mistaken, the engine had to leave its initial terminal with two methods of getting water into the boiler available and working. Whether the heater was not working but the pump was, I can't say. I can say that the engine gave a satisfactory performance over that territory with the train we had.

I'm not sure they ever expected to get useful data out of the tests; the engine was wired up from hell to breakfast to all sorts of instrumentation in the tool car to impress the gullible. But how they could have ever expected to get useful data in the first place for an unconventional locomotive (ACE3000) from a very conventional (comparatively low boiler pressure [255 pounds], high factor of adhesion) 4-8-4 I don't know. They'd have done better using the 611, but Rowland didn't own the 611. I think Rowland might have just wanted to get some running time in but when I was on the engine he was back on the train, working the crowd, I suppose.

Sorry I can't shed any more light on it than that . . .

EdKing


----- Original Message -----
From: NW Mailing List
To: 'NW Mailing List'
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: [VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts]"Takin' Twenty with theVirginian Brethren"


"T' was for 'turkey' as the feedwater heater was not working on the 614 during the tests. Without the recovered energy from the feedwater heater, the tests results were going to be disappointing as the 614T wasn't going to perform as well as the 600 series did in their in-service lives. The 614T was down on horsepower and had increased coal consumption in comparison to the 'old time' Greenbriars. I always wondered how or if Rowland or Chessie's engineers could figure out how to come up with useful data from the testing without the feedwater heater working. An operating feedwater heater has a lot to do with a steam locomotive's thermal efficiency. Railroads added the feedwater heater to most of their locomotives for a danged good reasons- lower coal consumption for the same or better performance and faster response to the throttle.



Ed, did you ever hear of how the group worked around this issue? The thermal cycle temperatures had to be 'off' by a bunch with the addition of cold water into the boiler. Unless the team had a lot of old C&O test data to make adjustments into the efficiency calculations, I can't figure out how they would have come up with anything useful. Given that the tests were run and the ACE 3000 project never got off the ground, maybe that is what exactly happened.



Gary Rolih






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From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:44 PM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: [VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts]"Takin' Twenty with theVirginian Brethren"



Sam - that was C&O #614 that Rowland had - and still has. During the tests it was numbered 614T, the T standing for "test" and "tomorrow".



I was on its first trip out of Huntington, and wrote it up for TRAINS magazine on assignment.



EdKing

----- Original Message -----

From: NW Mailing List

To: NW Mailing List

Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 12:01 PM

Subject: Re: [VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts] "Takin' Twenty with theVirginian Brethren"



Wasn't Ross Rowland involved in the stillborn ACE 3000 "modern" steam loco project of the 1980's? I think it was a joint effort of the railroads, principally Chessie, and the coal industry. I remember seeing Rowland's ex-C&O Greenbrier #610 fitted out with instrumentation for research during that project.



Sam Putney



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To: Beattie Coe ; Beverly Fitzpatrick ; Bill McClure ; Bill Mosteller ; Billy Daniel ; Brian Crosier ; Bud Jeffries ; Dal Cook ; Danny Gee ; Dennis Linsky ; Dewey Houck ; Doug Harris ; Doug Wade ; Ed Cake ; Ernie Hubble ; Frank Stone ; Gary W. Gary ; georgekegley ; Gerald Via ; Gerald Wizon ; Gordon Hamilton ; Jack Dunlap ; James Gillum ; Jeff Sanders ; Jim Blackstock ; Jim Cosby ; John Snidow ; Josh Salmon ; Ken Tanner ; Kenney Woods ; Kurt Reisweber ; Kraig Barker ; Lloyd Lewis ; Lesllie Jordan ; Larry Hawkins ; Landon Gregory ; Martin Swartz ; Michael Salmon ; Mike Dodd ; mssalmon ; Noah Tickle ; nw mailing list ; Pete Kirk ; Richard Shell ; robb fisher ; Ron Bingham ; Ron Davis ; Ron Mattox ; Stephen Salmon ; Steve Smith ; Tom Marshall ; Tom Salmon

Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:48 AM

Subject: Fwd: [VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts] "Takin' Twenty with theVirginian Brethren"




--
Skip Salmon

=============
To: VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts at yahoogroups.com
From: "Charles E. Salmon, Jr." <gkholine at cox.net>
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 11:31:14 -0000
Subject: [VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts] "Takin' Twenty with the Virginian Brethren"

Last night I had the pleasure of "Takin' Twenty" with 7 of the
Brethren and Friends of the Virginian Railway. I told the Brethren
about having the "Friends of the VGN" patch on my jacket recognized at
the Krispy Kreme yesterday by a Mr. Ratcliff of Copper Hill, VA. He
worked for the VGN for over 40 years, talked a lot about "Slick" Inge
and promised to "Take Twenty" with us in the future. I also told them
about Donnie Bailey and Bobby Graham, Mullens VGN engineers, who
attended the "Friends of the Virginian Railway at Milepost 2008" and
also said they would like to "Take Twenty" with us.

The June issue of "Trains" magazine was passed around with little
fanfare except for the article "CSX brawl gets down and dirty" on page
10 about their board member elections.

The ebay report was given: VGN Rwy. belt buckle (I hope someone
did NOT take the face off a heartshaped lock) for $45.44; "V.Ry."
Handlan tall globe lantern for $536.99; A 1924 VGN "Science of
Locomotive Management" book for $66.40; A VGN 1956 Norfolk Division
Timetable #23 for $57.89 and a 1943 VGN Operating Rule book for $58.63.

I told the Brethren about Ross Rowland, Jr., of 1976 Freedom Train
fame, visiting the work session last week at the Archives of the N&W
(and VGN) Historical Society. He and his "entourage" were extremely
interested in anything the Historical Society has in their records
concerning a coal fired turbine locomotive (like "Jawn Henry"). Wonder
what they are "up to?" He did buy lunch for the group that day.

At the Archives Thursday evening "pizza and slides" session, Gordon
Hamilton shared with us slides from a trip he took in the cab of an
SD45 on an Elmore to Roanoke coal train after the merger. They showed
great shots of the train and former VGN locations such as Elmore,
Clark's Gap, Inglesides, Kumis and many more.

I showed the Brethren Landon Gregory's winning photo at the "FVR @
MP 2008". This photo has been posted on this site under "People". It
was taken by Landon's lovely wife Sondra, and shows Landon receiving
train orders "somewhere, sometime" as a Virginian Railway operator.
Can you identify one very unusual aspect of this photo??

Cornbread was exceptionally active at the session and told about
his favorite (next to Rufus Wingfield) yardmaster, Bill Whittaker,
brother of our recently departed Jimmy Whittaker. Seems that Bill
reminded him of the famous deputy of Sheriff Andy Taylor, Barney Fife.
Cornbread said that Bill had the same swagger and aloofness of the
famous TV character. Seems that Bill, as yardmaster, had little
patience for one of his conductors, a fellow named Flannigan, who was
extremely "long in the tooth" when reporting derailments and such.
Once after a chiding for being long winded, the conductor gave this
account of a derailment in the yard: "Off again, On again, Gone again,
Flannigin".

I think I will pull the pin on this one.

Departing Now,

Skip Salmon









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