N&W vs. Southern Railway

[nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org]

As an aside, I would image - just a guess - that the top collection is
PROBABLY the UP? Just curious. I know the N&W has a massive and
comprehensive collection, and there used to be a site that was hosted at VT
but was not the actual archives that had a lot of N&W images but I lost the
link to it some time ago. That is a shame as there were photos of several
prototypes I wanted to kitbash existing locomotives i have to match up to.
Anyone know what it is I am talking about and where it is?

Bob Welsh

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:29 AM
Subject: Re: N&W vs. Southern Railway



> Actually there is only one Southern Society now. The SRHA was absorbed by

> the SRHS a couple of years ago, so the Spencer group is the only one. And

as

> a side note they have moved their Archives into one building for the first

> time and are now working on organizing it. The collection is in the top

four

> in size, The N&W is in the top two or three. This is for collections in

one

> place that is, its my understanding that the PRR stuff is scattered all

> over.

>

> Jason Greene

> Cumming, GA

> ----- Original Message ----- 

> From: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:44 PM

> Subject: Re: N&W vs. Southern Railway

>

>

> > The Southern Ry has 2 Historical Societies; one in Augusta, Ga and one

in

> > Spencer, NC.  You might wish to join one or both.  I'm sure they would

be

> > more to your liking than all of us coal dust covered N&W folks (Isn't

coal

> > dust green?). There's also an ACL/SAL Society.

> >

> > Increasing Shareholder's Wealth,  ROI,  ROE, Operating Ratio.........

are

> > among the true measures of success for management.  N&W management was

as

> > good as any at achieving outstanding results in these areas.  They were

> > also better than most!

> >

> > Out of curiosity, what management level did you advance to when working

> > for the ACL or SRR?  It's always valuable to understand the background

and

> > knowledge base for someone providing such critical and valuable

management

> > analysis!

> >

> > Ed Painter, Narrows, Va (Currently Russellville, AR)

> >

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message ----- 

> > From: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> > To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:18 PM

> > Subject: N&W vs. Southern Railway

> >

> >

> >> Having worked for Southern Railway up to and through the 1982 merger,

> >> let's have a look at the fiscal policy of both roads.  As we all know,

> >> the N&W

> >> was a financial success frm the outset all the way through the

depression

> >> years of the 1930's. But why in heavens name shouldn't it have been.

Like

> >> it's two counterparts, the Virginian and the C&O, all they had to do

was

> >> lug coal  from the mines down to Tidewater for export.  Profitable,

yes,

> >> but

> >> about half of it's westbound traffic consisting of non-revenue empty

> >> hopper

> >> trains.   Among other things the N&W would squeeze a nickel until the

> >> buffalo dropped dead.  I(n the early 70's while visiting family in

> >> Martinsville, Va., I would on occasion visit the local N&W operation.

> >> The

> >> operator I talked with was cvrying the blues. THe N&W was beginning to

> >> install CTC between Roanoke and Winston -Salem and were planning to

> >> abolish every operator's job between those two  points. Anything to

save

> >> a buck, right?   O.K., now let's check out policy on the Southern

> >> Railway.

> >> I went to  work as an operator for Southern in 1968 on the extra board.

> >> In  October of that year yhey  created a new second trick operator's

job

> >> in Gainesville.  I bid on the job, got it, and worked it for 18 years

> >> until I

> >> retired and NEVER ONCE in that 18 years was I ever rolled off that job

> >> by an older operator. They ventually added a new third trick operator's

> >> job at Gainesville which gave continuous operator service during the

> >> week.

> >> For the first couple of years after I went to work there was no relief

> >> for

> >> the first trick operator on  Saturday or Sunday.  The first trick

> >> operator

> >> agreed to work it on Saturday, and I agreed to work it on Sundays.  It

> >> was

> >> 8 hours overtime for both of us.  I earned about enough overtime to put

> >> my youngest son through the University Of Georgia.  When I went to work

> >> for Southern the mast outside of the depot that once held upper

quadrant

> >> train order signals was being used only as a support for the radio

> >> antenna

> >> for the depot base radio station.  Southern Railway, mind  you,

alkready

> >> had CTC  between Atlanta and Washington.   About   6 months after they

> >> put on my second trick job, things began to happen. The C&S Dept.

> >> re-installed the upper quadrant train order signals, including

lighting

> >> the

> >> lights on the position lenses.   At the outset we were handing up

orders

> >> by

> >> hand using string delivery with a "Y" shaped train order hoop.   For

> >> safety

> >> reasons  the trainmaster had Coster Shops in Knoxville fashion two

metal

> >> delivery stands, one for either side as it was doubletrack through

town.

> >> And a concrete base next to the track held a receptacle in which to

place

> >> the train order stand.  any times I had orders hanging on both sides

for

> >> trains going in  both directions. The C&S Dept. also installed flood

> >> lights

> >> on each side of the tracks to aid train crews in seeing the orders at

> >> night.

> >> And our stationery supplies started including form "19" train order

pads,

> >> with carbon sheets for multiple copies, clearance cards, and balls of

> >> twine to string up the orders.  Of the various jobs we put to work

daily,

> >> one was an 11:00 PM switcher.   He was deliberately scheduled to begin

> >> work at 11:00 PM as during the period  8:00 PM until eleven there was

> >> Amtrak No. 820 aqnd the dispatcher regularly wanted to meet the "shots"

> >> as they were called in thaty doubletrack territory,. and a switcher

could

> >> hardly get any track time anyway until 11:00 PM.  My tour of duty ended

> >> at 10:15 PM, with no relief on Friday nights. For a few years I stayed

> >> until

> >> 11:15 PM to put that job to work, which meant an hour of overtime. The

> >> Southern  Railway let well enough alone, but not the N&W.  That was not

> >> so much a merger as it was the N&W just taking over the Southern Ry.

> >> Within three months of the merger one night the trainmaster said

"Bill,

> >> we are going to have to move the eleven o'clock job up to 9:00 PM, as

> >> they

> >> are making noises about your overtime on Fridays."  So there you have

it.

> >> Who in blazes is the cheapskate between the two companies?  Southern

> >> Railway could care less about the overtime, but that bunch of

skinflints

> >> on the N&W want to account for every penny.  And I defy one of you

> >> N&W buffs to give me the name of a person in N&W management worthy

> >> of even holding the  coat of Southern Railway president D. W. Brosnan

> >> when it came to innovations to get traffic back on the railroad instead

> >> of

> >> sitting on his butt hauling coal downhill to the docks, and going back

> >> for

> >> more.  It took L. Stanly Crane, another good manager for Southern

> >> Railway to straighten out that Conrail fiasco and put it on a paying

> >> basis.

> >> In the case of Norfolk Southern, it was another case of  the tail

wagging

> >> the dog when that merger took place.    Bill Sellers

> >>

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