N&W vs. Southern Railway
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Thu Oct 27 12:07:26 EDT 2005
As an aside, I would image - just a guess - that the top collection is
PROBABLY the UP? Just curious. I know the N&W has a massive and
comprehensive collection, and there used to be a site that was hosted at VT
but was not the actual archives that had a lot of N&W images but I lost the
link to it some time ago. That is a shame as there were photos of several
prototypes I wanted to kitbash existing locomotives i have to match up to.
Anyone know what it is I am talking about and where it is?
----- Original Message -----
From: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:29 AM
Subject: Re: N&W vs. Southern Railway
> Actually there is only one Southern Society now. The SRHA was absorbed by
> the SRHS a couple of years ago, so the Spencer group is the only one. And
> a side note they have moved their Archives into one building for the first
> time and are now working on organizing it. The collection is in the top
> in size, The N&W is in the top two or three. This is for collections in
> place that is, its my understanding that the PRR stuff is scattered all
> Jason Greene
> Cumming, GA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 5:44 PM
> Subject: Re: N&W vs. Southern Railway
> > The Southern Ry has 2 Historical Societies; one in Augusta, Ga and one
> > Spencer, NC. You might wish to join one or both. I'm sure they would
> > more to your liking than all of us coal dust covered N&W folks (Isn't
> > dust green?). There's also an ACL/SAL Society.
> > Increasing Shareholder's Wealth, ROI, ROE, Operating Ratio.........
> > among the true measures of success for management. N&W management was
> > good as any at achieving outstanding results in these areas. They were
> > also better than most!
> > Out of curiosity, what management level did you advance to when working
> > for the ACL or SRR? It's always valuable to understand the background
> > knowledge base for someone providing such critical and valuable
> > analysis!
> > Ed Painter, Narrows, Va (Currently Russellville, AR)
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 10:18 PM
> > Subject: N&W vs. Southern Railway
> >> Having worked for Southern Railway up to and through the 1982 merger,
> >> let's have a look at the fiscal policy of both roads. As we all know,
> >> the N&W
> >> was a financial success frm the outset all the way through the
> >> years of the 1930's. But why in heavens name shouldn't it have been.
> >> it's two counterparts, the Virginian and the C&O, all they had to do
> >> lug coal from the mines down to Tidewater for export. Profitable,
> >> but
> >> about half of it's westbound traffic consisting of non-revenue empty
> >> hopper
> >> trains. Among other things the N&W would squeeze a nickel until the
> >> buffalo dropped dead. I(n the early 70's while visiting family in
> >> Martinsville, Va., I would on occasion visit the local N&W operation.
> >> The
> >> operator I talked with was cvrying the blues. THe N&W was beginning to
> >> install CTC between Roanoke and Winston -Salem and were planning to
> >> abolish every operator's job between those two points. Anything to
> >> a buck, right? O.K., now let's check out policy on the Southern
> >> Railway.
> >> I went to work as an operator for Southern in 1968 on the extra board.
> >> In October of that year yhey created a new second trick operator's
> >> in Gainesville. I bid on the job, got it, and worked it for 18 years
> >> until I
> >> retired and NEVER ONCE in that 18 years was I ever rolled off that job
> >> by an older operator. They ventually added a new third trick operator's
> >> job at Gainesville which gave continuous operator service during the
> >> week.
> >> For the first couple of years after I went to work there was no relief
> >> for
> >> the first trick operator on Saturday or Sunday. The first trick
> >> operator
> >> agreed to work it on Saturday, and I agreed to work it on Sundays. It
> >> was
> >> 8 hours overtime for both of us. I earned about enough overtime to put
> >> my youngest son through the University Of Georgia. When I went to work
> >> for Southern the mast outside of the depot that once held upper
> >> train order signals was being used only as a support for the radio
> >> antenna
> >> for the depot base radio station. Southern Railway, mind you,
> >> had CTC between Atlanta and Washington. About 6 months after they
> >> put on my second trick job, things began to happen. The C&S Dept.
> >> re-installed the upper quadrant train order signals, including
> >> the
> >> lights on the position lenses. At the outset we were handing up
> >> by
> >> hand using string delivery with a "Y" shaped train order hoop. For
> >> safety
> >> reasons the trainmaster had Coster Shops in Knoxville fashion two
> >> delivery stands, one for either side as it was doubletrack through
> >> And a concrete base next to the track held a receptacle in which to
> >> the train order stand. any times I had orders hanging on both sides
> >> trains going in both directions. The C&S Dept. also installed flood
> >> lights
> >> on each side of the tracks to aid train crews in seeing the orders at
> >> night.
> >> And our stationery supplies started including form "19" train order
> >> with carbon sheets for multiple copies, clearance cards, and balls of
> >> twine to string up the orders. Of the various jobs we put to work
> >> one was an 11:00 PM switcher. He was deliberately scheduled to begin
> >> work at 11:00 PM as during the period 8:00 PM until eleven there was
> >> Amtrak No. 820 aqnd the dispatcher regularly wanted to meet the "shots"
> >> as they were called in thaty doubletrack territory,. and a switcher
> >> hardly get any track time anyway until 11:00 PM. My tour of duty ended
> >> at 10:15 PM, with no relief on Friday nights. For a few years I stayed
> >> until
> >> 11:15 PM to put that job to work, which meant an hour of overtime. The
> >> Southern Railway let well enough alone, but not the N&W. That was not
> >> so much a merger as it was the N&W just taking over the Southern Ry.
> >> Within three months of the merger one night the trainmaster said
> >> we are going to have to move the eleven o'clock job up to 9:00 PM, as
> >> they
> >> are making noises about your overtime on Fridays." So there you have
> >> Who in blazes is the cheapskate between the two companies? Southern
> >> Railway could care less about the overtime, but that bunch of
> >> on the N&W want to account for every penny. And I defy one of you
> >> N&W buffs to give me the name of a person in N&W management worthy
> >> of even holding the coat of Southern Railway president D. W. Brosnan
> >> when it came to innovations to get traffic back on the railroad instead
> >> of
> >> sitting on his butt hauling coal downhill to the docks, and going back
> >> for
> >> more. It took L. Stanly Crane, another good manager for Southern
> >> Railway to straighten out that Conrail fiasco and put it on a paying
> >> basis.
> >> In the case of Norfolk Southern, it was another case of the tail
> >> the dog when that merger took place. Bill Sellers
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