Trains 141, 142

NW Mailing List nw-mailing-list at
Mon Feb 5 10:46:51 EST 2018

The fact that they were primarily mail and express trains was immaterial. The "lack of passenger patronage" would be the reason cited for eliminating the schedule. The mail and express would then be added to another train; but eliminating a schedule would save money.Jim Nichols 

    On Monday, February 5, 2018 5:46 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at> wrote:

  <!--#yiv0044945849 _filtered #yiv0044945849 {font-family:"Cambria Math";panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv0044945849 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv0044945849 #yiv0044945849 p.yiv0044945849MsoNormal, #yiv0044945849 li.yiv0044945849MsoNormal, #yiv0044945849 div.yiv0044945849MsoNormal {margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", serif;}#yiv0044945849 a:link, #yiv0044945849 span.yiv0044945849MsoHyperlink {color:#0563C1;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0044945849 a:visited, #yiv0044945849 span.yiv0044945849MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv0044945849 p.yiv0044945849MsoListParagraph, #yiv0044945849 li.yiv0044945849MsoListParagraph, #yiv0044945849 div.yiv0044945849MsoListParagraph {margin-top:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", serif;}#yiv0044945849 p.yiv0044945849msonormal0, #yiv0044945849 li.yiv0044945849msonormal0, #yiv0044945849 div.yiv0044945849msonormal0 {margin-right:0in;margin-left:0in;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman", serif;}#yiv0044945849 span.yiv0044945849EmailStyle18 {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv0044945849 .yiv0044945849MsoChpDefault {font-family:"Calibri", sans-serif;} _filtered #yiv0044945849 {margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}#yiv0044945849 div.yiv0044945849WordSection1 {}#yiv0044945849 _filtered #yiv0044945849 {} _filtered #yiv0044945849 {} _filtered #yiv0044945849 {} _filtered #yiv0044945849 {} _filtered #yiv0044945849 {} _filtered #yiv0044945849 {} _filtered #yiv0044945849 {} _filtered #yiv0044945849 {} _filtered #yiv0044945849 {} _filtered #yiv0044945849 {}#yiv0044945849 ol {margin-bottom:0in;}#yiv0044945849 ul {margin-bottom:0in;}-->Harry,    Thanks very much for looking into this and associating Southern 141 and 142 with N&W 9 and 10,  all the same train.  I wonder about the citing of “lack of passenger patronage” as the reason for discontinuing these trains since they were always essentially mail/express trains.    Two related observations:    1.      I spent considerable time in the early 1960s  at Montview “Tower” (actually a small wooden shack to operate the switches and signals on the Southern end of the connecting double wye to Kinney. The distance through the wye between N&W and Southern is no more than one mile and the N&W end of the wye had no “tower.” Passenger trains moved through the wye at 30 to 40mph without stopping. Thus allocating seven minutes seems contrary to anything I observed ten or so years later with the other jointing operated passenger trains.  To the extent there were any order for these trains (moving either west or east) they were given by hoop and the trains did not stop for them. By the way, the is the same double wye the Amtrak trains now use. 2.      I have consist reports for the eastbound trains (42,46,18) for many days in the early 1960s.  No 42 often ran a heavy consist of up to 18 cars, including two Pullmans and two to four passenger cars.  My guess (and it is only a guess) is that the discontinuance of 142 in the early 1950s resulted in considerably more mail and express being put on No. 42.   And between around Thanksgiving and Christmas each year, there were one or two second sections in each way of the N&W/Southern trains to carry the Christmas mail.                                  Ray Smoot          From: NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at]On Behalf Of NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List
Sent: Friday, February 2, 2018 10:49 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at
Cc: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at>
Subject: Re: Trains 141, 142          Ray: Reviewing 1949 timetables from N&W's Norfolk Division and Southern's Washington and Danville divisions, itappears that No. 10 originating on the N&W became No. 142 at Montview.  Seven minutes was allocated for the move between Montview and Kinney. No. 141 became N&W No. 9 at that point.  Nos. 9/10 were mail and express trains on the N&W, but did carry a rider coach.  Southern Nos. 141-142 made limited stops between Monroe and Alexandria--Charlottesville was the only station stop from No. 141.  With service solely in Virginia, Nos. 9 and 10 disappeared in the late 50s.  N&W cited lack of passenger patronage for discontinuance.   For Norfolk Division train crews, the train was handed over to Southern train crews at Kemper Street, but engine crews swapped at Monroe, so between Kemper Street and Monroe, it was a mixed crew.                    Harry Bundy ________________________________________
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