Decals - Steam Era cab-side lettering

Sun Dec 18 07:52:52 EST 2022

Gosh, I remember the late and great Tom Dressler recommending Chrysler 1975 vintage red as being correct for "old N&W red."Never did complete that passenger car project.
Jim Kehn

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From: NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Cc: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sat, Dec 17, 2022 10:52 pm
Subject: Re: Decals - Steam Era cab-side lettering

Can’t wait to see a reproduction of the drift card!And not to swat a long-sleeping dog, but haven’t there been debates on this listserv through the decades that the color was NOT called “Tuscan Red” by the N&W, but rather “N&W” red? The drift card cover sayeth otherwise, it seems.And I guess I need to check whether my touchup bottles of Chrysler 1975 vintage red auto lacquer  (said to be a dead ringer for the ‘50s-era N&W hue) have dried out too … . LOL.

Andre Jackson
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Thursday, December 15, 2022, 2:46 PM, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
Hey Phil

The Tuscan Red Drift card courtesy of Charlie Schlotthober is dated October 1950. If you look back at the Arrow, 2022, issue 1 (38-1) you will see where I reproduced one of the paint department records for car 1722, one of the PM coaches. If you look down you will see the car was painted multiple times, but then on December 17, 1956, the note was added “metallic tuscan”

The color used on the GE and EMD diesels in the 1970s was metallic, but not the same shade, I have a can of it out in my garage.  What Roanoke Chapter used on the excursion cars beginning in the 1970s was a 1976 Lincoln-Continental No. 2 Dark Red, that was surely on advice from the N&W paint shop. It was a non-metallic red. Naturally, none of the paint numbers work today as all that has changed.

Best
Ken Miller

On Dec 14, 2022, at 3:47 PM, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Interesting. I don’t recall seeing this previously. 
Regarding the paint drift cards, was the Tuscan Red used in the 1970’s the same as the 1950’s or did it evolve some before whatever NS red is? 
This is not to debate shades, but just the evolution of what colors were dictated back in the day. 
Thanks,
Phil Miller

From: NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org> On Behalf Of NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List
Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2022 11:00 AM
To: N&W Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Cc: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: Decals - Steam Era cab-side lettering

Hi Ken, 

I’m reviving this old thread because I’m curious if the project for documenting steam locomotive lettering and creating decal sets has progressed, specifically the cab-side lettering? Perhaps I’ve missed it. 

You mentioned a small book on modern N&W tenders. Would that include the assignments of the USRA tenders? When going through the Prince book the other day, I was surprised how long they were in service, and in what capacities. On a semi-related note, has their been an article on this topic (USRA tenders) in a past Arrow?

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio, US

On Sep 30, 2020, at 1:47 PM, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Hey Roger

There are, according to drawings two different designs that are cabside lettering from the 1920-1941 era, we are studying that.

I want to do an overall paint and lettering book, including samples of the paint drift cards that are Charlie’s which includes the 1950 Tuscan Red, but I’ve got to find my photographic color scale to make sure we zero it out correctly. I want to correct a lot of misinformation that has been spread over time, and probably raise a number of questions as well, but doing the steam locomotive guide will be enough for starters. I’ve gathered a lot of data on paint and lettering over the years, mainly because I was interested and had access to a lot in years past.

I think the steam set, and I’ll have to talk to Richard, be either a large sheet, or several smaller sheets, but it will be, over anything else, correct!

Best
Ken Miller

On Sep 30, 2020, at 1:26 PM, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Ken,

Thanks for the detailed look into what has transpired from you guys so far. Many thanks for all you have done toward this. With this much attention to detail I'm sure it will be a great set.

Not to muddy the waters any more maybe making a pre and post lettering size/style sets would work? Those earlier cab side N&W and the later stretched out styles on different sheets? Just a thought to keep the sheet from becoming huge.

A prototype lettering book would be unbelievably welcome by most of use I'm certain.

Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works

On Wednesday, September 30, 2020, 12:00:07 PM CDT, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 

All

I’ve been taking notes here. Richard and I need to meet and talk about the sets, but I will tell you what I want to see.

First Charlie Schlotthober and I have been discussing this since the idea was first proposed.

Charlie and I probably have more information on the subject than anyone out there, and in my case, I’ve lettered the real things in the case of 611, 1218 and N&W 6, usually with help, but I did all the art for them.

We would like to see all variations of 10 inch, 8 inch, 7 inch and the cabside lettering prior to 1941, if there is space and interest, I also did art on the pre-1920 lettering.

Charlie had worked up a list of tender number/capacities that we can work into ready made sets for various locomotives. We do have a number of lists on tender assignments in hand, and Charlie is working on a small book on N&W modern tenders, but that is a future project. Charlie has put together a spreadsheet on the various tender numbers and their assignments based on the sheets

We intend to have the lettering spaced for the various sizes of tenders, including canteens, as well as preset number combinations. I’d also like to have the aluminum lettering for pre 1941 passenger locomotives. I’d also include correct headlight number boards, numbers for number plates, builders plates, class plates and the other miscellaneous lettering for tanks like the Safety First, Black Smoke is Waste, Stoker slides removed... etc. etc.

Charlie and I are also talking about making a 16-32 page booklet (i.e. an Arrow-sized magazine) that will focus on positioning the lettering, oddities, and include lots of diagrams and drawings. One thing about the drawings, you have to depend on actual material for perfectly correct letter shapes.

N&W, unlike a number of other roads, did not make drawings for an alphabet or numbers in all sizes. 

https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=173063

An example of how detailed the NKP and other AMC roads were. 

Charlie and I both have studied this subject for many years, and both of us searched the files for such N&W drawings, and I am convinced that if such a drawing exists, it is only for very specific use or post steam era.

If someone has information they would like to share for this project, photos etc, please contact me at miller at nwhs.org. We will copy what we do not have and return the original to you if requested.

Thanks for the interest

Ken Miller

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