NW Roanoke Shops Sign -- Status Report Update

Fri May 28 15:44:39 EDT 2021

Just to add to the number, I would certainly be interested in an HO
steam-era version if it were produced. And I'd be willing to spend the
money upfront if that was what would be necessary.

Tom Fulton
---
Asheville, NC

On Fri, May 28, 2021 at 1:38 PM NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <
nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

> Ken,
>
> I understand.
>
> Roger Huber
> Deer Creek Locomotive Works
>
>
> On Friday, May 28, 2021, 11:55:37 AM CDT, NW Modeling List <
> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
>
> Roger
>
> The society will consider doing the run, but I’ve certainly not seen
> enough folks stepping up here to say they will buy enough to justify the
> effort.
>
> If the Society did it, we would be the only source.
>
> Best
> Ken Miller
>
> On May 28, 2021, at 12:16 PM, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <
> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> BillD,
>
> I understand. Just throwing around ideas and possibilities. Not having any
> idea of the costs before I was just exploring options with the Society
> being one.
>
> Roger Huber
> Deer Creek Locomotive Works
>
>
> On Friday, May 28, 2021, 05:36:27 AM CDT, NW Modeling List via
> NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
>
> Roger,
> I have no basis for a judgement on whether the NWHS could sell 500
> steam-era signs.
> To be clear, I am not advocating anything.  In response to questions
> raised in response to my on-line search for one of the otherwise
> unavailable signs, I provided some intel on what I had learned.  And in
> further response to additional questions I volunteered to make follow-up
>  inquiries.  I am merely conveying information.  While I tried to
> identified options, I am not advocating any of those options or any other
> course of action.
> Bill D
> N&W Steam Only
>
> On May 27, 2021, at 3:14 PM, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <
> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> 
> BillD,
>
> Thanks for your work on this topic. That is considerable money to invest.
> Do you think the 500 minimum could sell among Society members?
>
> I don't have any of Miller's signs and have never even seen one. Nothing
> has been of interest to me so far and they cost too much to speculate. I'm
> also not a fan of layout lighting as such but that sign would be of
> interest.
>
> Hopefully more interest can be generated and the sign can progress.
>
> Makes me wonder why they did the diesel era sign over the steam era sign
> in the first place? I guess my wants and wishes are out of place. I prefer
> the script herald diesels and the Western Maryland Fast Freight (Fireball)
> era stuff which tends to be ignored by most manufacturers. My belief from
> seeing various surveys, etc., is the "transition era" is the larger of the
> modeling eras. Personally with the 1964 mergers I lost most interest in the
> N&W.
>
> Thanks for keeping us in the loop on this.
>
> Roger Huber
> Deer Creek Locomotive Works
>
>
> On Thursday, May 27, 2021, 01:24:53 PM CDT, NW Modeling List via
> NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
>
> Ken Miller,
>
> Further to Miller Engineering options for illuminated "N&W Roanoke Shops"
> HO-scale signs:
>
> 1. With respect to commissioning a new sign (*i.e.*, "steam-era"
> version), Miller Engineering charges a $350 design fee for which the
> Society would be are allowed one revision.  If that is approved, samples
> would be $1,000 each.  If the order is placed, both those fees would be
> credited back to the production order.  The minimum production run is 500
> kits. Pricing would be $14-$18 depending on the size and amount of
> the illuminated area.  So, we’re talking $7,000 (to perhaps $9,000).
>  [Roger Huber (Deer Creek Locomotive Works), I hope that answers your
> question.]
>
> The finished sign would normally retail for about $36-$43 (based on
> Miller’s retail price and the range of discounted hobby shop pricing for
> the diesel-era sign I found on line).  That’s a lot of signs to have to
> resell, especially in potential competition with other resellers, *unless
> Miller would agree not to sell to third parties.*  I posed that question
> to my contact at Miller Engineering, and he has responded as follows,
>
> "If the N&W Historical Society wants to take the full production run than
> [sic] I am willing to give the rights to to them and I would not sell the
> sign, I would just refer customers that where looking for it over to them,
> you have my word on this.”
>
> Actually, the Society would have more than his “word”.  He knows that I am
> effectively acting as the Society’s agent for purposes of making this
> inquiry.  That promise is “in writing” (despite his simultaneous over-
> and under-use of commas) even though electronic (today’s courts treat
> email and similar electronic communications as “writings”).  And, the
> Society’s reliance on that promise would constitute “consideration.”  All
> of which is to say, were the Society to go ahead and contract for the full
> production run (min. 500), then the promise would be *a legally
> enforceable contractual obligation*.  [Not intended as legal advice; I am
> retired and not licensed in Virginia.  The Society should confirm the
> foregoing by consulting with its own attorney.]
>
> 2.    For the diesel-era sign that Miller is “*considering"* bringing out
> again this summer (apparently that is not a done deal), they will give the
> Society their “distributor" discount of 55%, with a minimum order of
> $1,000.  Assuming Miller’s $43 retail pricing remains unchanged, with a 55%
> discount, that would work out to a purchase of about 42 signs.  The Society
> could probably resell those fairly quickly on a pre-order basis for $35
> (cheaper than likely to be available from hobby shops) and turn a nice
> ($470) profit, or sell for $30 to Members and still turn a $260 profit.  Of
> course, if the Society has the exclusive rights to the steam-era sign,
> being able also to offer at least a small number of the diesel-era signs
> might be a nice option.  On the other hand, if the Society contracts for
> the exclusive rights to the steam-era sign, Miller might decide not to
> reissue the diesel era sign at all.
>
> 3.   Nothing additional to report on the non-illuminated version.
>
> Bill Demarest
> N&W Steam Only
>
> P.S.  Through the generosity of another member to these list-serves, I
> have located a working version of the diesel-era sign! But, even so, if the
> Society does contract for a production run of the steam-era sign, I’ll be
> at the head of the line to buy one for my all-steam N&W layout!!
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