NW Roanoke Shops Sign -- Status Report Update

Fri May 28 12:45:49 EDT 2021

Roger

The society will consider doing the run, but I’ve certainly not seen enough folks stepping up here to say they will buy enough to justify the effort.

If the Society did it, we would be the only source.

Best
Ken Miller

> On May 28, 2021, at 12:16 PM, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> 
> BillD,
> 
> I understand. Just throwing around ideas and possibilities. Not having any idea of the costs before I was just exploring options with the Society being one. 
> 
> Roger Huber
> Deer Creek Locomotive Works
> 
> 
> On Friday, May 28, 2021, 05:36:27 AM CDT, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Roger,
> I have no basis for a judgement on whether the NWHS could sell 500 steam-era signs.  
> To be clear, I am not advocating anything.  In response to questions raised in response to my on-line search for one of the otherwise unavailable signs, I provided some intel on what I had learned.  And in further response to additional questions I volunteered to make follow-up  inquiries.  I am merely conveying information.  While I tried to identified options, I am not advocating any of those options or any other course of action.
> Bill D
> N&W Steam Only
> 
>> On May 27, 2021, at 3:14 PM, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> BillD,
>> 
>> Thanks for your work on this topic. That is considerable money to invest. Do you think the 500 minimum could sell among Society members?
>> 
>> I don't have any of Miller's signs and have never even seen one. Nothing has been of interest to me so far and they cost too much to speculate. I'm also not a fan of layout lighting as such but that sign would be of interest.
>> 
>> Hopefully more interest can be generated and the sign can progress.
>> 
>> Makes me wonder why they did the diesel era sign over the steam era sign in the first place? I guess my wants and wishes are out of place. I prefer the script herald diesels and the Western Maryland Fast Freight (Fireball) era stuff which tends to be ignored by most manufacturers. My belief from seeing various surveys, etc., is the "transition era" is the larger of the modeling eras. Personally with the 1964 mergers I lost most interest in the N&W.
>> 
>> Thanks for keeping us in the loop on this.
>> 
>> Roger Huber
>> Deer Creek Locomotive Works
>> 
>> 
>> On Thursday, May 27, 2021, 01:24:53 PM CDT, NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Ken Miller,
>> 
>> Further to Miller Engineering options for illuminated "N&W Roanoke Shops" HO-scale signs:
>> 
>> 1.	With respect to commissioning a new sign (i.e., "steam-era" version), Miller Engineering charges a $350 design fee for which the Society would be are allowed one revision.  If that is approved, samples would be $1,000 each.  If the order is placed, both those fees would be credited back to the production order.  The minimum production run is 500 kits. Pricing would be $14-$18 depending on the size and amount of the illuminated area.  So, we’re talking $7,000 (to perhaps $9,000).  [Roger Huber (Deer Creek Locomotive Works), I hope that answers your question.]   
>> 
>> The finished sign would normally retail for about $36-$43 (based on Miller’s retail price and the range of discounted hobby shop pricing for the diesel-era sign I found on line).  That’s a lot of signs to have to resell, especially in potential competition with other resellers, unless Miller would agree not to sell to third parties.  I posed that question to my contact at Miller Engineering, and he has responded as follows, 
>> 
>> "If the N&W Historical Society wants to take the full production run than [sic] I am willing to give the rights to to them and I would not sell the sign, I would just refer customers that where looking for it over to them, you have my word on this.”
>> 
>> Actually, the Society would have more than his “word”.  He knows that I am effectively acting as the Society’s agent for purposes of making this inquiry.  That promise is “in writing” (despite his simultaneous over- and under-use of commas) even though electronic (today’s courts treat email and similar electronic communications as “writings”).  And, the Society’s reliance on that promise would constitute “consideration.”  All of which is to say, were the Society to go ahead and contract for the full production run (min. 500), then the promise would be a legally enforceable contractual obligation.  [Not intended as legal advice; I am retired and not licensed in Virginia.  The Society should confirm the foregoing by consulting with its own attorney.]
>> 
>> 2.    For the diesel-era sign that Miller is “considering" bringing out again this summer (apparently that is not a done deal), they will give the Society their “distributor" discount of 55%, with a minimum order of $1,000.  Assuming Miller’s $43 retail pricing remains unchanged, with a 55% discount, that would work out to a purchase of about 42 signs.  The Society could probably resell those fairly quickly on a pre-order basis for $35 (cheaper than likely to be available from hobby shops) and turn a nice ($470) profit, or sell for $30 to Members and still turn a $260 profit.  Of course, if the Society has the exclusive rights to the steam-era sign, being able also to offer at least a small number of the diesel-era signs might be a nice option.  On the other hand, if the Society contracts for the exclusive rights to the steam-era sign, Miller might decide not to reissue the diesel era sign at all.  
>> 
>> 3.   Nothing additional to report on the non-illuminated version.
>> 
>> Bill Demarest
>> N&W Steam Only
>> 
>> P.S.  Through the generosity of another member to these list-serves, I have located a working version of the diesel-era sign! But, even so, if the Society does contract for a production run of the steam-era sign, I’ll be at the head of the line to buy one for my all-steam N&W layout!!
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