EXTERNAL: Re: HO scale decals (NW Modeling List)

Thu Oct 1 05:59:43 EDT 2020

Eric,

I agree with providing accurate markings for decal sets.  I also understand
there are significant challenges to creating an accurate decal set for them
especially since auxiliary tenders did get moved from one locomotive to
another.

Given the amount of research needed, these tenders might be a good project
for the future but I'll let those putting the decals together make that
decision.

Also, I appreciate the information on Mr. French's book. I’ll have to look
it up as it sounds like an interesting reference.

Thanks

Mike True

On Wed, Sep 30, 2020, 9:58 AM NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <
nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

> Mike:
>
>
>
> I’m a strong believer in modeling every marking that can be documented, on
> any piece of equipment, for the specific period being modeled.
>
>
>
> That said, it’s hard enough to figure out what main tender(s) were
> assigned to specific locomotives over what periods of time, because back in
> the film days, almost nobody spent a precious frame imaging the backs of
> tenders.  I doubt that anybody ever took conscious note of what aux tenders
> were assigned to what locos, except in excursion service.
>
>
>
> One of the wonderful resources we have at our disposal is Vern French’s
> Williamson Terminal book, which at least documents which tender classes
> were assigned to which loco classes, in the eras covered by the book, at
> the specific Williamson terminal location.  But this is still too little
> information for modelers who want to be able to accurately letter tender
> numbers, for specific loco road numbers, in specific periods, at other
> locations on the N&W.  And I don’t recall that Mr. French’s excellent book
> addresses which classes of locos pulled auxiliary tenders on which specific
> runs, let alone documented specific aux tender numbers to specific loco
> road numbers on any specific date.  Lewis Newton’s fascinating Rails
> Remembered volume on the Jawn Henry didn’t even give conclusive testimony
> on the aux tender number for that loco, if I remember correctly.  Somehow,
> Jack Vansworth apparently found such documentation, and with a lot of
> trepidation, I followed his choice of aux tender number when making up my
> JH decal set.
>
>
>
> PRR and ATSF also assigned tender numbers, and it’s very hard to research
> which tender numbers were assigned over what periods to which locos.
> Anybody who could produce accurate information on this topic for any of
> these roads would earn my undying gratitude; I’m not at all convinced there
> is extant authentic documentation of this information for any of these
> railroads.
>
>
>
> The above notwithstanding, we have documentation that aux tenders carried
> road numbers (that encoded their water capacities), and we have
> documentation of the range of numbers assigned to aux tenders.  So, IAW my
> first paragraph, I advocate that accurately modeled N&W aux tenders
> *should* have road numbering, and main tenders *should* have road numbers
> and coal capacities (for which, see French), and non-Roanoke locos
> *should* have builder’s plate decals with builder’s numbers and build
> dates consistent with the builder’s practice and the model’s road number.
> And, VGN tender models *should* have the diagonally placed coal and water
> capacity markings on each side.  I’d argue that modeling a road’s specific
> idiosyncratic markings is crucial to capturing their essence…  Who would
> fail to include appropriate maintenance markings, class markings, bridge
> E-rating markings, and/or TE markings on cab sides of GN, UP, and other
> roads that used them??  Who wouldn’t include appropriate train numbers on
> an SP loco’s train indicator boards?  Would one knowingly omit the “N.P.”
> on the side sills of Northern Pacific tenders, or the period after
> “PACIFIC”?
>
>
>
> And, OBTW, including a set of decals for N&W aux tender lettering would
> not take up lots of room on a decal sheet.  One square inch in HO scale
> would cover every aux tender class, and enough lettering to achieve any
> valid road number for them.  Don’t leave the yard without them!
>
>
>
> -Eric Bott
>
>
>
> *From:* NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org> *On Behalf
> Of *NW Modeling List
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 29, 2020 11:56
> *To:* NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> *Subject:* EXTERNAL: Re: HO scale decals (NW Modeling List)
>
>
>
> I've been watching this thread with interest and was thinking about the
> desire for a comprehensive set of decals that covers most or all classes of
> locomotives. This raised a question in my mind. Not trying to add
> additional research but could or should the "complete" decal set also
> include lettering/data for the auxiliary water tenders too?
>
>
>
> Mike True
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 3:58 PM NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
>
> David,
>
>
>
> I agree with you man I really want to do just the steam era I could care
> less about the Excursion stuff.excursion stuff It is nice that we have 611
> running.
>
> Sincerely
>
>
>
> Jeff Mueller
>
>
>
> On Sep 24, 2020, at 1:41 PM, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Just to add some humor.  In the aeronautical charting industry we say
> never talk about magnetic variation.  We generally will argue for hours if
> we do.
>
>
>
> In n&w modeling we should never mention excursion locomotive paint.
>
>
>
> David Baker
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 24, 2020, 12:48 PM NW Modeling List via NW-Modeling-List <
> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> It will be a "cold day" before that cab graffiti is on any of our sets....
>
>
>
> Richard D. Shell
>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/23/2020 6:37:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org writes:
>
>
>
> But Ken, it is historically accurate - just for a later time.
>
> I’ll never need it, but a modern excursion era modeler might.
>
> Matt Goodman
> Columbus, Ohio, US
>
> On Sep 23, 2020, at 12:14 PM, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
>
> Jim:
>
> Richard Shell and I both despise the “phrase” under the cab for its
> historical inaccuracy, and we both agree it will not be part of any set we
> do.
>
> Ken Miller
>
> > On Sep 23, 2020, at 8:56 AM, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > My two cents is the excursion stuff should not be included in the set;
> I'd prefer a historically accurate set for steam era service.  I would
> imagine VMT or whoever owns 611 would want some money in exchange for using
> their marketing phrase.
> >
> > Jim Brewer
>
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