Potential Brass Surrogates, Virginian PAs
NW Modeling List
nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org
Mon Nov 4 11:44:18 EST 2019
I got to thinking about what models might make good donors for a VGN PA project. I looked through www.steamlocomotive.com<http://www.steamlocomotive.com> (outstanding web site), and discovered that the C&O F-17, CIL K-1 & K-2, CRI&P P-28 & P-32, MP P-69, NP Q-1 through Q4, and Rutland K-1 all had 69” drivers, and within a foot of the PA’s driver wheelbase. The overall engine wheelbases differed by a bit more, but could be corrected by lengthening or shortening the lead truck and/or trailing truck pivot-to-axle lengths by a bit.
Of these prototypes, HO models have been made of only the C&O F-17 (PFM, Key, Challenger), the NP Q-1 through Q-4 (W&R and PSC), and the Rutland K-1 (NERS). O models have only been made of the NP Q-4 (PSC).
Other dimensions/features of potential interest:
VGN PA C&O F-17 NP Q-1 NP Q-2 NP Q-3 NP Q-4 Rutland K-1
Driver Dia 69” 69” 69” 69” 69” 69” 69”
Driver WB 12.17’ 13’ 12’ 12’ 12’ 12’ 13’
Engine WB 34.75’ 34.75’ 32.5’ 33.41’ 32.5’ 32.5’ 35.83’
Cyl Bore x Stroke 26”x28” 27”x28” 22”x26” 16.5”x26” 24.5”x26” 23”x26” 25”x28”
Engine Wt 298,000# 312,605# 225,500# 240,000# 236,000# 237,600 278,000#
Valve Gear Baker Walschaert Stephenson Walschaert Walschaert Walschaert Walschaert
It is seen that the NP engines were very small compared to the PA. On the other hand, if you’re an O-scaler, maybe you start with a PSC Q-4 chassis, and do a complete new superstructure. In HO scale, the C&O F-17 and Rutland K-1 look like better bets, with cylinders “close enough” in bore and stroke, and the 5% - 7% weight difference means that one might even be able to use much of the C&O or Rutland boiler. I have to admit, though, that a Baker-to-Walschaert conversion would be a problem for me. PFM made quite a few runs of the F-17, and with Key and Challenger models available, a modeler should have a range of economy donors through superbly engineered chassis/drive mechanisms donors--if you can live with the 0.114” driver wheelbase error in the model. The NERS model has a very nice mechanism as well, though not as detailed a frame as Challenger’s. Both are fairly expensive.
Other prototypes that might be fairly close (e.g. 4” or less difference in driver dia) and have HO models:
VGN PA B&O P-5 B&M P-2 CN/CV K-3b DRGW P-44
Model Maker - Key OMI (HO & O) OMI PFM
Driver Dia 69” 73” 73” 73” 67”
Driver WB 12.17’ 13’ 13’ 12’ 12.5’
Engine WB 34.75’ 34.75’ 33.58’ 33.41’ 33.67’
Cyl Bore x Stroke 26”x28” 25”x28” 22”x28” 23”x28” 26”x26”
Engine Wt 298,000# 277,000# 221,000# 240,880# 262,000#
Valve Gear Baker Baker Walschaert Walschaert Walschaert
The PFM D&RGW P-44 models are readily available and inexpensive. I haven’t seen many of the Key B&O P-5’s on eBay, but the Baker gear is an attraction. Greenway has a bunch of 69” drivers available, with both crescent or square weights, in light & medium or medium & heavy, counterweighting respectively. If a decent set could be made up, I’d rather try to stuff them in the B&O model than the D&RGW model, just because going down in driver diameter is likely to leave more clearance between brake shoes and driver tires than going up in diameter. For an O-scaler, the B&M P-2 would probably be a better (and cheaper) starting point than the NP option, because the B&M cylinders are correct in stroke, if not bore.
Best,
-Eric Bott
From: NW-Modeling-List <nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org> On Behalf Of NW Modeling List
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2019 07:20
To: NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: More Virginian questions about passenger service
Virginian passenger service ended in 1955.
Sincerely,
Joseph Congemi
On Nov 4, 2019, at 07:56, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
Thank you Jim. Did passenger service end at the merger?
Walter Davis, Youngsville, NC
On 11/3/2019 7:26 PM, NW Modeling List wrote:
The Virginian Pacifics bore no relation to USRA Pacifics, although I have kitbashed them starting from a USRA light Pacific. Drivers are too tall and boiler needs to be heavier. I overlooked the driver problem, but kitbashed a heavier boiler. The Pacifics lasted till the end of Virginian passenger service, so there was no transition to diesels. However they did get two Fairbanks Morse 16,000 HP diesels with steam generators (presumably so they could handle the business cars on special moves.
Jim Nichols
On Sunday, November 3, 2019, 06:13:52 PM CST, NW Modeling List <nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org><mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
Were any of the Virginian Pacifics based on USRA heavy (or light Pacifics)? I found it interesting that the BA was only used in fast freight service. What did they use for passenger service in the 1950's? If not Pacifics, what early diesels were used and when did they switch from steam. I could probably find most of these answers on the web site or in one of the books about the railroad, but the answers I get from the members are more than information, they are experience - far more valuable. Thanks in advance for your help.
Walter Davis, Youngsville, NC
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