LC-1, LC-2, EL-1a, or EL-3a Sound Files

Sat Dec 12 09:44:36 EST 2015

Eric:

Ah, yes, the GN motor-generator locos.  Thank you for correcting me on  
that oversight.  I didn't realize the NH had one fleet of those as well,  good 
to know.

Yes, a series commutator motor will run on ac or dc, although in the sizes  
required for traction applications the ac had to be low frequency or the  
sparking would destroy the motor.  In a vacuum cleaner, 60 Hz is ok, but  for 
locomotives, "not so much." Ergo, the 16 2/3 Hz in Europe and 25 Hz in the  
U.S.

The three PRRs you mentioned all had series motors.  And, of course  the 
DD-1s were dc third rail locomotives, so except for being siderod locos  
they're not what you're after on sound cards.

No doubt about it, the siderod locos with the three phase induction motors  
will sound different from the axle-hung series motor locomotives.

Again, good luck with your sound card investigations!

Dave Phelps

In a message dated 12/12/2015 8:32:11 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org writes:

Dave: 
Actually,  I was all over the map.  The NH EP-5, PRR E-3b, E-2c, and E-44, 
all had  ignitron rectifier locos like VGN EL-C, and delivered DC to the 
traction  motors.  The GN W1, Y1, and Z1 all had motor-generator set(s), and  
delivered only DC current to the traction motors, as did the NH EF-2 and VGN  
EL-2b. 
The  GG-1, and at least all of the NH passenger locos (EP-1, EP-2, EP-3, 
and  EP-4) except EP-5 had universal motors, which run on either AC or DC.   
While the GG-1 only ever fed AC to the motors, the NH fed AC to the motors  
except from Woodlawn to Grand Central Terminal, where it fed them DC.   MILW, 
CSS&SB, NYC, and LIRR all used  DC motors exclusively.  I  don’t know about 
the NH freight-only motors and EY-2 switchers (or EY-1 for  that matter), 
or the PRR O1, P5’s, or R.  If they used universal motors  too, then so did 
the Hoosac Tunnel motors.   
But  the LC-1, LC-2, EL-3a, EL-1a, Big Liz, and the other side-rodders 
(except  PRR’s and LIRR’s early DD-1’s) that I’m aware of all had split-phase  
transformers feeding big 3-phase induction motors.  (Of course,  the first 
GN tunnel motors were also true 3-phase motors, fed from dual  catenary 
overhead.)   
And  big 3-phase motors spinning at axle RPM with 55”drivers sound 
different from  small 1-phase or DC motors, as do lack of quill/geared  drives. 
-Eric  Bott 

From: NW-Modeling-List  [mailto:nw-modeling-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On 
Behalf Of NW Modeling  List via NW-Modeling-List
Sent: Friday, December 11, 2015  15:11
To: nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org
Cc: NW Modeling  List
Subject: Re: LC-1, LC-2, EL-1a, or EL-3a Sound  Files

This  is admittedly beside the point of your request, but the following 
locomotives  that you lumped as having "multiple small DC motors" all had, in  
fact, AC motors:

PRR GG-1,  E2B, B, FF, L, O, PP, and R1; all NH except EP-5; all GN; and 
B&M  Hoosac Tunnel. 

Good  luck with your project.

Dave  Phelps

In a  message dated 12/11/2015 1:25:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
_nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org_ (mailto:nw-modeling-list at nwhs.org)   writes:

I have a couple of NJCB LC-1 sets, OMI and ALCO EL-3a  sets and EL-1a 
units, a couple of Railworks DD-1 sets, and a NJCB “Big Liz”  that I would like 
to add DCC/sound to.  I have been through every DCC  manufacturer web site 
around the world that I can think of to find  factory-installed sound files 
that would reasonably represent a large  AC-motored, heavy electric 
locomotive with side-rod clank.  No joy,  except as noted below. 
If this interest seems weird to you, then I recommend  you get a copy of 
Herron Rail’s Pocahontas Glory Vol 6--  if it  still seems weird, go serenely 
back to your Mollies, confident that  you have walked on the wild side and 
know better now. 
I’m wondering if any of the Modeling List folks out  there have already 
developed a decent sound file for LC-1 or EL-3a?  If  so, for which decoder 
brand? 
Does anybody out there have experience with modifying  the sound files on a 
decoder of any brand/type? 
Has anybody tried to put sound cams on the NJCB LC-1 or  OMI or ALCO EL-3a’
s? 
Let me note that the GG-1 sound files readily available  out there provide 
great representations of sounds of heavy electrics with  multiple small DC 
motors and quill drives—very apt for most of the NH  electrics, MILW EP-3 and 
ES-2, B&M Hoosac Tunnel motors; not bad for the  PRR B, FF, L, O, PP, and 
R1 motors, for CUT/NYC P motors, for MILW  EF-4/CSS&SB Little Joes, GN W1, Y1 
and Z1, NYC T-motors, and PRR E-2b,  E-2c, E-3b and E-44; better than 
nothing for NYC S motors and MILW  EP-2.  But the GG-1 sound files don’t do 
justice to the large  AC-motored heavy electrics, and of course don’t have any 
siderod clank  feature. 
The closest thing I have found are the ESU sound files  for the Swiss Ce 
6/8 Krokodil motors, having 4 (unfortunately) large AC  motors, siderods, and 
a good variety of additional sound effects.  But,  Oh My, the Europeans have 
no sense at all for a throaty air horn, so using  the ESU Ce 6/8 sound 
files as-is is a non-starter.    
And the d*** ESU Lokprogrammer is $164, plus a  $24 USB cable at Tony’s 
Train Exchange, compared to $71 for a Digitrax  PR3XTRA programmer, cable 
included, from Tony’s, or $90 list price for a QSI  Quantum Programmer.   
I would much rather go the QSI route, since that would  allow me to program 
some of the decoders I already have installed on some  steam locos, but 
would consider the others in  desperation. 
I would appreciate any advice or  insight! 
Thank you, 
-Eric Bott 

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