Mainline hopper movements

Thu Nov 27 20:10:58 EST 2025

Hope everyone is full of turkey and pie and got at least one nap this
afternoon,
Had I been and engineer in Bluefield assigned to the Elkhorn pool (were
crew assigned to the pools?), and drew the North Fork run, what class loco
would I have had under me (a 2000?).  Would I be running forward or
reverse?  Would the empties be in front of me or behind me?  Would there be
a cab, and if so, where?
When I get to North Fork, do I need to sign the book showing I am occupying
the branch, and if so, where was the book kept (in the station?)?  After
being cleared for the branch, and depending upon the loco's facing, I would
start to either push or pull those empties around the hill where the Elk
Ridge coke ovens used to be and head up the holler to make my first drop
off at Algoma?
Can I pack any more questions into one short message, time will tell,
Jim Cochran

On Thu, Nov 27, 2025 at 6:22 AM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
wrote:

> James,
>
> To tie up some dangling ends in my reply, empties for your North Fork
> Branch were delivered by a dedicated Elkhorn run – a bit unusual, but an
> indication of the tonnage coming down that short hollow. The east loads
> went to Eckman, but the west loads were left on the North Fork storage
> tracks for a River crew to pick up trailing-point that night, soon followed
> by the Elkhorn crew with empties to set off.
>
> Great questions! Thanks for asking and for patience with my replies. Great
> topic worthy of your modeling skills, we love this stuff, so now get to
> work.
>
> Happy Thanksgiving to you and All,
>
> Grant Carpenter
>
> On 11/25/2025 7:11 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> Yes, movements with more than a two-man engine crew (ie, a pusher) rated a
> caboose.
>
> Careful, setoffs and pickups could be made at any storage point, *some*
> of which were terminals. Storage tracks were just that – track. Terminals
> included storage tracks, but also were where runs originated and
> terminated, thus they included facilities for engine service, a yard
> office, a call office, crew lounge, etc.
>
> So Byrd Yard was not a terminal, that would be Eckman Yard until it
> closed. The North Fork Hollow Mine Run was moved to Bluefield, became First
> Vivian or V1, and would depart Bluefield with a 2000 running in reverse,
> most times light with the caboose on the pilot.
>
> An Elkhorn crew would bring about 110 empties to North Fork and back them
> into the two storage tracks, Elk Ridge and North Fork. The engine was
> turned at Eckman, met a pusher, and took east loads from there back to
> Bluefield. Byrd Yard was used mostly to store empties for Keystone, being
> on the same side of the main and just up from the delivery switch.
>
> By setting off empties in one direction and picking up loads in the other,
> these mainline crews avoided mixed trains that would slow operations in a
> tight time frame. This is why it was so important that mine runs block
> their loads by direction when setting them out for pickup by the Elkhorn
> and River crews.
>
> Okay, I'll stop, and limit the drifting. Something approaching an overview
> on this topic was published in *The Arrow* with Glenn Fisher's "High
> Noon" series, but doesn't include some details here, given the context. As
> always, feel free to ask more questions.
>
> Grant Carpenter
>
> On 11/25/2025 8:47 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>
> OK, so an Elkhorn job takes off from Bluefield with a 21 hunnert and a big
> string of empty hoppers (caboose yes?) headed West.  This movement drops
> off empties where needed (did it pick up any loads while setting off at the
> terminals?) and finally has no more empties and returns to Bluefield?  So
> this is how empties would have gotten to Byrd yard (a terminal?) ready for
> distribution up North Fork holler.  Bet a buck you can anticipate my next
> series of questions.  Well since you left the North Fork branch for me to
> model, I need to do it properly :^)
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:21 PM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Jim,
>>
>> The Bluefield pool job was referred to as just "Elkhorn" or "Elkhorn
>> man/job/run/crew." Motive power was one 2100 with empties or running light,
>> with a cab and road crew of five. If there were two engines, one was a
>> Pocahontas Pool pusher with a two-man crew, and both were dispatched facing
>> in the same direction and running light to go pick up east loads.
>>
>> In similar fashion, the Tug River Pool job out of Williamson was referred
>> to as "River," as well as the pusher pool. They were dispatched with
>> empties or east loads, and sported auxiliary tenders.
>>
>> A clarification, terminals on the District where crews were based and
>> runs originated in the 1950s included Weller Yard, Auville Yard, Eckman
>> Yard and Wilcoe Yard. The terminal at Eckman closed in 1951 and Wilcoe
>> closed for the latter half of the 1950s.
>>
>> These pool jobs could set off and pick up by trailing-point moves at
>> designated storage points listed earlier, but tipples were left to the
>> six-man mine runs. If needed, a pool run could, for example, deliver a
>> tipple, and then put in for extra pay.
>>
>> Grant Carpenter
>>
>> On 11/24/2025 6:09 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>
>> Grant,
>> Should I forget to say it explicitly in any of my messages, know that I
>> am always grateful to you for sharing your knowledge.  OK, it is the start
>> of a normal working day in the mid 1950s in Bluefield.  A "pool" run (was
>> that how they were referred to?) is assembled with a long string of empties
>> bookended by power.  Was the power Ys?  Were there 2?  Was one running in
>> reverse?  Since I assume most pool yards had two switches off the main,
>> what was the reason for using locomotives with opposite facings?
>> Jim Cochran
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 6:32 AM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>> That's right, there was a pool of road crews based in each main
>>> terminal, Elkhorn Pool in Bluefield and Tug River Pool in Williamson, that
>>> hauled empties (when available) to storage points and returned with loads
>>> from storage points. Mine runs only had to move empties and loads between
>>> tipples and the nearest storage point. Those points on the main line from
>>> Bluefield west to Iaeger included: Mullins Middle, Flat Top Yard, Bluestone
>>> (River Track), Angle Branch, Morgan Storage, North Fork Hollow/Elk Ridge
>>> Storage, Byrd Yard, Eckman Yard, Vivian (Kimball Yard), Cirrus Storage,
>>> Huger Middle, Superior #3 Outlet, Tug Storage, Farm Storage, Caples Outlet,
>>> Davy Storage, Twin Branch Storage, Claren Storage and Hull Middle (the
>>> limit of Elkhorn crews). Branchline yards served by pool runs included
>>> Clift, Wilcoe and Auville.
>>>
>>> As I mentioned earlier, operation limits, variations and exceptions were
>>> typical; however, to your last point, I agree it is a good idea to limit my
>>> posts to the specific questions and limit details, so feel free to follow
>>> up.
>>>
>>> Grant Carpenter
>>>
>>> On 11/22/2025 2:44 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>>
>>> Grant et al.
>>> Thank you so much for your responses, I will keep asking as long as you
>>> keep answering :-)
>>> From the Pokey's point of view, empties magically appeared in huge
>>> strings at Bluefield and Williamson, and needed to be distributed to every
>>> mining operation.  What I think I just put together from Grant's response
>>> (please correct me on anything/everything) is there was a distribution
>>> hierarchy of runs to keep everyone supplied.  Those big "mainline" runs
>>> that I started with in my first post, would start their runs "all empty"
>>> and set off cuts at what I will call distribution points (yards) while
>>> picking up loads from these large holding facilities.  The ones that come
>>> to my mind are Flat Top, Cliff, Byrd, Eckman, Vivian/Kimball, and I get
>>> foggier as I go West of my primary area of interest.  Mike you probably
>>> know the ones around Iaeger, so please chime in.  Is there a comprehensive
>>> list?  The mainline run would, at some point have set off all its empties
>>> and picked up a full train of loads and head back to its terminal of origin
>>> be it Bluefield or Williamson.  How am I doing so far?  I am going to keep
>>> my posts somewhat short so as to try to concentrate on a limited aspect at
>>> a time to help keep things straight, at least for me.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim Cochran
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> https://pairlist6.pair.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> https://pairlist6.pair.net/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> https://pairlist6.pair.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist6.pair.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20251127/4393b99e/attachment.htm>