Mainline hopper movements
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Tue Nov 25 20:11:27 EST 2025
Jim,
Yes, movements with more than a two-man engine crew (ie, a pusher) rated
a caboose.
Careful, setoffs and pickups could be made at any storage point, _some_
of which were terminals. Storage tracks were just that – track.
Terminals included storage tracks, but also were where runs originated
and terminated, thus they included facilities for engine service, a yard
office, a call office, crew lounge, etc.
So Byrd Yard was not a terminal, that would be Eckman Yard until it
closed. The North Fork Hollow Mine Run was moved to Bluefield, became
First Vivian or V1, and would depart Bluefield with a 2000 running in
reverse, most times light with the caboose on the pilot.
An Elkhorn crew would bring about 110 empties to North Fork and back
them into the two storage tracks, Elk Ridge and North Fork. The engine
was turned at Eckman, met a pusher, and took east loads from there back
to Bluefield. Byrd Yard was used mostly to store empties for Keystone,
being on the same side of the main and just up from the delivery switch.
By setting off empties in one direction and picking up loads in the
other, these mainline crews avoided mixed trains that would slow
operations in a tight time frame. This is why it was so important that
mine runs block their loads by direction when setting them out for
pickup by the Elkhorn and River crews.
Okay, I'll stop, and limit the drifting. Something approaching an
overview on this topic was published in /The Arrow/ with Glenn Fisher's
"High Noon" series, but doesn't include some details here, given the
context. As always, feel free to ask more questions.
Grant Carpenter
On 11/25/2025 8:47 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
> OK, so an Elkhorn job takes off from Bluefield with a 21 hunnert and a
> big string of empty hoppers (caboose yes?) headed West. This movement
> drops off empties where needed (did it pick up any loads while setting
> off at the terminals?) and finally has no more empties and returns to
> Bluefield? So this is how empties would have gotten to Byrd yard (a
> terminal?) ready for distribution up North Fork holler. Bet a buck
> you can anticipate my next series of questions. Well since you left
> the North Fork branch for me to model, I need to do it properly :^)
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
> On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 3:21 PM NW Mailing List
> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> The Bluefield pool job was referred to as just "Elkhorn" or
> "Elkhorn man/job/run/crew." Motive power was one 2100 with empties
> or running light, with a cab and road crew of five. If there were
> two engines, one was a Pocahontas Pool pusher with a two-man crew,
> and both were dispatched facing in the same direction and running
> light to go pick up east loads.
>
> In similar fashion, the Tug River Pool job out of Williamson was
> referred to as "River," as well as the pusher pool. They were
> dispatched with empties or east loads, and sported auxiliary tenders.
>
> A clarification, terminals on the District where crews were based
> and runs originated in the 1950s included Weller Yard, Auville
> Yard, Eckman Yard and Wilcoe Yard. The terminal at Eckman closed
> in 1951 and Wilcoe closed for the latter half of the 1950s.
>
> These pool jobs could set off and pick up by trailing-point moves
> at designated storage points listed earlier, but tipples were left
> to the six-man mine runs. If needed, a pool run could, for
> example, deliver a tipple, and then put in for extra pay.
>
> Grant Carpenter
>
> On 11/24/2025 6:09 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>> Grant,
>> Should I forget to say it explicitly in any of my messages, know
>> that I am always grateful to you for sharing your knowledge. OK,
>> it is the start of a normal working day in the mid 1950s in
>> Bluefield. A "pool" run (was that how they were referred to?) is
>> assembled with a long string of empties bookended by power. Was
>> the power Ys? Were there 2? Was one running in reverse? Since
>> I assume most pool yards had two switches off the main, what was
>> the reason for using locomotives with opposite facings?
>> Jim Cochran
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 24, 2025 at 6:32 AM NW Mailing List
>> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>>
>> Jim,
>>
>> That's right, there was a pool of road crews based in each
>> main terminal, Elkhorn Pool in Bluefield and Tug River Pool
>> in Williamson, that hauled empties (when available) to
>> storage points and returned with loads from storage points.
>> Mine runs only had to move empties and loads between tipples
>> and the nearest storage point. Those points on the main line
>> from Bluefield west to Iaeger included: Mullins Middle, Flat
>> Top Yard, Bluestone (River Track), Angle Branch, Morgan
>> Storage, North Fork Hollow/Elk Ridge Storage, Byrd Yard,
>> Eckman Yard, Vivian (Kimball Yard), Cirrus Storage, Huger
>> Middle, Superior #3 Outlet, Tug Storage, Farm Storage, Caples
>> Outlet, Davy Storage, Twin Branch Storage, Claren Storage and
>> Hull Middle (the limit of Elkhorn crews). Branchline yards
>> served by pool runs included Clift, Wilcoe and Auville.
>>
>> As I mentioned earlier, operation limits, variations and
>> exceptions were typical; however, to your last point, I agree
>> it is a good idea to limit my posts to the specific questions
>> and limit details, so feel free to follow up.
>>
>> Grant Carpenter
>>
>> On 11/22/2025 2:44 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>> Grant et al.
>>> Thank you so much for your responses, I will keep asking as
>>> long as you keep answering :-)
>>> From the Pokey's point of view, empties magically appeared
>>> in huge strings at Bluefield and Williamson, and needed to
>>> be distributed to every mining operation. What I think I
>>> just put together from Grant's response (please correct me
>>> on anything/everything) is there was a distribution
>>> hierarchy of runs to keep everyone supplied. Those big
>>> "mainline" runs that I started with in my first post, would
>>> start their runs "all empty" and set off cuts at what I will
>>> call distribution points (yards) while picking up loads from
>>> these large holding facilities. The ones that come to my
>>> mind are Flat Top, Cliff, Byrd, Eckman, Vivian/Kimball, and
>>> I get foggier as I go West of my primary area of interest.
>>> Mike you probably know the ones around Iaeger, so please
>>> chime in. Is there a comprehensive list? The mainline run
>>> would, at some point have set off all its empties and picked
>>> up a full train of loads and head back to its terminal of
>>> origin be it Bluefield or Williamson. How am I doing so
>>> far? I am going to keep my posts somewhat short so as to
>>> try to concentrate on a limited aspect at a time to help
>>> keep things straight, at least for me.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jim Cochran
>>
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