VGN Trains 3 & 4 on the New River Division - Questions

[NW Mailing List]

Abe:

You sure ask a lot of questions! See as many answers below as I can give.

First lets begin with some details.

On March 6, 1951, the Virginian applied to the ICC for permission to discontinue operation of passenger trains over the approximate 31 miles between Deepwater Bridge (DB tower) and Charleston, W. Va. This discontinuance was contested by a couple of parties, Mullens and Princeton, plus the BRT, stating that it would be damaging to them, and they contested the ability of the ICC to rule in this case as the trains were entirely in the state of West Virginia. The VGN argued that it was the ICC who originally gave them permission to operate the trains. Guess who won?

Testimony stated that the eastbound train averages 2.6 passengers per day, while the westbound averaged 2.8.

The ICC ruled on December 14, 1951 that the trains be discontinued, and the last runs were on January 26, 1952.

With that, the railroad proceeded, this time with the Public Service Commission in West Virginia to discontinue the trains from Page to DB tower, which was effective on June 20, 1952.

The next step was the attempt to discontinued all remaining service, which began in 1954. Since the road has to deal with two states, it came to the Virginia State Corporation Commission, and in West Virginia to the Public Service Commission. Virginia allowed the discontinuance between Roanoke and the West Virginia State Line after December 31 1954. After a lengthy hearing, and the various complaints, the SCC required the VGN to improve service, then they could return to the SCC after almost a year.

In West Virginia, the PSC did not allow discontinuance of the trains between Hales Gap (State line) and Page, but finally relented as of July 11, 1955. 

The VGN returned to the VGN SCC to once again plead their case, resulting by January 12, 1956 permission to discontinue the last two trains after the last runs on January 29, 1956. 


> On Sep 24, 2025, at 7:25 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> 
> I have been puzzling over the operation of VGN New River Division Trains 3 and 4, as published in the Jan 1952 Official Guide.  Copy attached as a PDF file.  Here are the items I do not understand :
> 
> 1.  Did VGN trains 3 and 4 run into Charleston?  

Yes, sometime after the completion of the bridge at Deepwater, March 1931.

> 
> 1A.  If so, did the trains use C&O Charleston station, or NYC Charles station?

New York Central Station
> 
> 1B.  If so, did the VGN crew take the train all the way, running over the C&O or NYC, or was the VGN crew and engine changed out for handling to Charleston by the crew and engine of the connecting road ?

VGN crews ran all the way. There are photos of the PAs in Charleston.
> 
> 1C.  If No. 3 went to Charleston, where was the engine laid over and serviced?

The PAs were serviced at the NYC facility.
> 
> 1C.  If crew and/or engine were changed for a C&O or NYC crew, where was this crew change done?

VGN crews handled the train both directions.
> 
> 1D.  Or did Train 3 terminate on the VGN at the hamlet of Deepwater or DB Tower, neither of which had a ticket office a depot (present population 183) ?

No, I believe even before the bridge the train was kept at Page, was never, to any record I’ve seen a wye at Deepwater, nor really any room to have one. I know there are some early drawing depicting a 80’ turntable there, but if that was actually done, I do not know.
> 
> 1E.  If the train terminated at Deepwater, were the crew and engine returned to Page for relief, layover and servicing ?

When the train was terminated at DB tower, after January 26, 1952, they simply deadheaded back and forth to Page, a distance of 8.2 miles. The train was turned on the wye, and engine serviced there before backing to DB tower the next morning for departure. 

> 
> 1F.  The schedule carries Train 3 to DB Tower.  What was at DB Tower?  Was it an interlocking?  Of so, was that the connection to the C&O or the NYC, and was it a VGN tower or a C&O or NYC tower ?

DB tower, was a NYC building, in later years, just a low 1 story building, I cannot answer to any previous building, but I’m betting it was just a similar size structure. I believe it was on the south side of the track. Not an interlocking, but a train order station.
> 
> 2.  Did the same VGN Train Crew and same VGN Engine Crew take No. 3 all the way across the NewRiver Division, or were the crew and/or engine changed out at Princeton, or some other point ?

Not really sure of this, but I suspect a crew from Roanoke to Princeton, 97.1 miles, 3 hours and 23 minutes, Princeton to DB and back to Page, 103 miles, just a bit less than 5 hours. Would divide the work pretty evenly. Skip might know.

Ken Miller
> 
> Yes, I should have asked these questions 60 years ago.  But thanks for the push, if you can give one.
> 
> -- abram burnett
> The Voice of the Digital Turnip Sub-Culture