Norfolk Depot for N&P

Mon Oct 9 00:38:06 EDT 2023

According to Richard Prince, in Pocahontas Coal Carrier, it was located on
Bramble's Point, Norfolk, Virginia.  I have attached two maps that I believe
show the yards at Bramble's Point.

Hope this helps.

Bramble's Point
(For more Norfolk geography tidbits, click here.)
Shown on a July 15, 1856, plat (Norfolk County Deed Book 83, p.568), in
which Bramble's Point is being purchased by the Norfolk and Petersburg
Railroad, the site is on the east side of Newton's Creek and north side of
the EasternHampton Roads Times Magazine
      HamptonRoadsTimes.com Branch of the Elizabeth River, and opposite of
Noe's Bridge (called Racefield Bridge on the plat).  The plat also shows
"Hardy Home" on the opposite shore of the Elizabeth River.

Charles Sledge

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Today's Topics:

   1. Norfolk Depot for N&P and/or AM&O ? (NW Mailing List)
   2. Re: How Efficient Were the "Big Three"? (NW Mailing List)
   3. Derail device (NW Mailing List)

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Message: 1
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2023 21:34:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: N&W Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Norfolk Depot for N&P and/or AM&O ?
Message-ID: <mailman.4859.1696761772.3083874.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
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Does anyone know where the N&P (Norfolk & Petersburg) or the AM&O (Atlantic
Mississippi & Ohio) had their depot(s) in Norfolk ?

   -- abram burnett
Turnip Rights Activist

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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2023 15:13:51 -0400
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: N&W Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: How Efficient Were the "Big Three"?
Message-ID: <mailman.4904.1696795773.3083874.nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

The original poster will find a recent writeup on steam locomotive
efficiency the book in ?The Steam Locomotive Energy Story? by Walter
Simpson, published by the C&OHS and available in the N&W Commissary. I don?t
recall if it covers the N&W locomotives specifically. Trains magazine
covered the topic in the article ?Did we Scrap Steam Too Soon?? published in
the 1970?s, and it?s addressed in a couple of contemporary books from the
forties and fifties (those are harder to source). 

However, the same night I read John Rhodes response, I happened to be
leafing through the November, 1927 N&W Magazine, which had an article called
?Improving our Mallet Locomotives? by C.H. Paris, Engineer, Motive Power
Department. Coincidentally, he covered this very topic in nice 1927 detail.
Part of the article discussing the benefits of feedwater heaters is
definitely worth a share in this thread. 

It may be surprising to know that of the total energy produced in the
firebox of an average modern locomotive, by the combustion of coal, only 6
per cent or slightly more than one-twentieth is delivered as useful work at
the drawbar. Of the total potential energy of the coal used, about 4 per
cent is lost through unburned coal to the ashpan; about 8 per cent is lost
as unburned cinders through the stack; 5 per cent is lost by radiation; 6
per cent is used by auxiliaries, such as stoker, air pumps, turbo-generator,
etc.; about 4 per cent is lost as unburned gases and soot through incomplete
combustion; 14 per cent is lost as heat in the furnace gases; about I per
cent is lost as machine friction of the locomotive, and 52 per cent, or more
than half of the total heat energy, is lost in the heat of the exhaust steam
which is rejected by the cylinders and discharged through the smoke-stack.

There are several distinct advantages that are obtained from the use of
feedwater heaters, and they may be summarized as follows: First, there is a
recovery of a considerable amount of waste heat from the exhaust steam as
stated above. This results in a saving of the amount of coal required to be
burned, which may amount to as much as 10 or 12 per cent of the total coal
used; second, for any given locomotive, delivering a given amount of power,
a reduction in the amount of coal burned results in greater boiler
efficiency, because, with less forcing of fires, combustion is more perfect
and the rate of heat absorption by the heating surfaces is reduced and it is
well known that the greatest economy in heat absorption or boiler efficiency
is obtained when the locomotive is worked at less than its full coal-burning
capacity; third, the exhaust steam

condensed in an open heater, such as we are using, results in a considerable
saving of water, as all such steam condensed is returned with the feedwater
to the boiler. This reduces the tender capacity required, or what is
probably more important, for any given tender capacity. the length of time
between stops for water may be increased; fourth, the effect of a steam
condensing chamber connected directly to the exhaust passages of a
locomotive produces a sucking action which lowers the back pressure on the
pistons and increases the cylinder horsepower.
<snip>
The effect of all these economies from the use of feedwater heaters on the
practical operation of a locomotive is to increase steaming capacity <snip>.

Matt Goodman

> 
> On Friday, October 6, 2023, 02:09:14 PM EDT, NW Mailing List
<nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Most revenue service steam locomotives maxed out at about 6% thermal
efficiency. Energy of fuel used versus drawbar horsepower.  A modern AC
diesel is about 30%.  It gen diesel about 20%.
> 
> The most efficient revenue steam locomotives where the Andre Chapelon
compound passenger 4-8-0s in France.  High single digit thermal efficiency.
There where prototype steam engines that hut thermal efficiency over 10% but
steam was dying and it wasn't pursued.
> 
> Best Regards
> John Rhodes
> 
> 
> On Fri, Oct 6, 2023, 10:31 AM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
> Greetings,
> 
> In the rudimentary research I've done on N&W's big three (J, A, 
> Y6/a/b), I've gotten the impression that they were among if not the 
> most efficient steam locomotives built in the United States, in some 
> cases outperforming the first-generation diesels. But exactly how 
> efficient were they? From what I've heard the maximum fuel efficiency 
> of a steam locomotive is about 15%. Did any of the big three have the 
> abil
> 
> Eli Santinity to reach this efficiency level?
> ________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:38:35 -0400
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