Shenandoah Division Cab Signals -- Unresolved Questions

Fri May 5 19:38:38 EDT 2023

Mike 

  Markers are what’s on the rear of the train .  The lights you speak of  are class lamps or lights

Larry Evans

From: NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2023 12:33 PM
To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: Shenandoah Division Cab Signals -- Unresolved Questions

This is really interesting! These are the stories about what it was like to operate the railroad.  Sure, we all know what kind of loccos and what kind of cars, but few of us who did not work for the railroad understand what it was like to actually operate a train.  Many of us "play" with our models and could benefit from someone with some expertise to show us things we could do to be a little more realistic.  (Like park our train in a siding and wait 2 hours til we run out of time and get picked up by a van. 😃 )

A great example: I was asking badgering Ken Miller with questions last week about how marker lights were used on trains.  Sure, the rule book tells what the colors mean, but how did N&W use them in day to day operations?  If I wanted to add lighted lamps to the smokebox of my A's or Y6's which would be most logical to use? Such as coal trains were often run as extras, so maybe it makes sense to use white lenses toward the front on a Y6b?  Or green on an A since it could have a following section?  Then we got to discussing signal lamps on switch machine poles; I bet no one in North America has a job on their model railroad where someone has to refill the oil in the yard switch lamps every day. ha!

Mike Rector

On Fri, May 5, 2023 at 12:18 PM NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> > wrote:

On 5/4/2023 5:34 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

 Abe,
    If I remember correctly the the first mandated application of ATC on the Shenandoah Div. was later recinded on request from of the N&W and replaced with only the "Cab Signal" version. This has been documented in several puiblications. I am surprised that you haven't seen it as yet. I have this somewhere deep in my library. There would not be two different types of ATC on the Shen. Div. That just doesn't make sense. I understand that there was a different type used on engines assigned to operate between Petersburg and Richmond.
    Later on the cab signals were removed from the Shenandoah Div. north. One oddity about this was that somehow it still worked in places unexpectedly. When Conrail units equipped with cab signals started showing up on the head end of our trains there were quite a few times where trains were put in a penalty brake application between Randolph St. and Park St. I don't think anyone ever figured it out. Penalty applications also happened out on the road from time to time. The north end of Cloverdale was where I remember it happening to me with a UP unit on the head end. IIRC, I was able to reset the alarm with the lever on the annuciator box. Many were the times when trains with NS units equipped with cab signals cut in (for use north of Hagerstown) were put into penalty after passing the signal at North Roanoke. The shop forces had to be called to come out and cut out the cab signals before we could proceed.

Jimmy Lisle

From: NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2023 10:38 AM
To: N&W Mailing List  <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Shenandoah Division Cab Signals -- Unresolved Questions

We all kick ourselves for the questions we never asked while there was still living memory to provide an answer.  And this one is no different. 

The N&W's Shenandoah Division was equipped with cab signaling, but the north and south ends of the Division were equipped with different types of equipment. 

The north end had the early Loop-and-Track technology, which depended upon steady-energy AC currents being in-phase or out of phase. 

The south end of the Division used the much more modern Coded Track principle of the 1930s, whereby an AC current was pulsed into the rails at different pulse rates, and those pulses were picked up by the engine's detector bar, amplified and decoded to give an in-the-cab indication of the condition of the next signal block ahead. 

The use of different technologies (and thus different equipment) on the north and south ends leads to some interesting QUESTIONS : 

1.  Were engines assigned to the Shenandoah Division equipped with BOTH cab signal technologies, so they could be used on either district of the Division ?   

2.  If so, did a passenger engine on a Hagerstown-Roanoke run have to cut one one technology at Shenandoah, and cut in the other technology? 

3.  If so, where were the cut out controlls located, and was the change-over performed by the Egineman or a round house electrician ? 

The attached photos show a Union Switch & Signal cab signal display box of the same type used on the Shenandoah Division (top row, left end.)  Lamps behind the roundels were probably 32 volt lamps, as that was standard voltage on steam engines and early D-thingies as well. 

When I worked on the Shenandoah Division in the 1960s, I asked some of the old Hog Heads for details about how the cab signals functioned, and their answers were conflicting and obviously confused.  Several of them could not even remember the colors of the glass roundels !  So the matter of a good description of the equipment and its operation still seems to be an open issue, at least for me.  Obviously there were written instructions covering all these matters.  Have they been found? 

-- abram burnett, 

Industrial Strength Liquid Turnips - 200 Proof 

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