Virginian PA locomotive speed

Sat Feb 8 11:21:12 EST 2020

Lore has it that one of the Milwaukee Road F-7 84” drivered Hudsons on its way from the builder at Schenectady stopped by the PRR test plant at Altoona and achieved driver RPM equivalent to 140 MPH – 560 RPM.  

I don’t know of any locomotive speed “records” that weren’t based on some kind of unreliable information.  N&W 610’s test runs on the PRR were based on the locomotive’s speedometer and there is no record of anyone checking it on a test mile.  Checking a speedometer on mileposts is iffy, too; there’s no guarantee that the mileposts were exactly 5280 feet apart.

But maybe it’s better this way.  Generations of fans can argue about this one or that one and nobody can claim absolute proof..  You can make plausible excetions to any given “speed record” that nobody can deny.

I’d have to list those Milwaukee Road Hudsons and 84” Atlantics as probably the ones that, day to day, spent more time over 100 MPH than anybody else.  I know that the Santa Fe and Chicago and North Western both had 84” engines, but neither had the schedules that demanded 100-plus running every trip.  Between Chicago and Milwaukee, they had just a certain amount of time to make the 85-mile run, and did it under all kinds of weather conditions, including pea-soup Lake Michigan fogs; all they had was a little green light on the cab signals.  I’ve often thought that those engine crews had to have cast-iron testicles to get out there and let her rip when they couldn’t even see the front of the engine.

The late Bill Withuhn was the first one to doubt NYC 999’s record on the basis that the engine couldn’t develop enough horsepower to accomplish its feat.

- Ed King 

From: NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List 
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 8:43 PM
To: NW Mailing List 
Cc: NW Mailing List 
Subject: Re: Virginian PA locomotive speed

The speed reports for the PRR T1 (and S1 6-4-4-6 as well) remain anecdotal.

Franklin is said to have timed the T1's at 140mph with 8-car trains for short intervals.  Numerically this may be possible, given the T1's 80" drivers, small 19 3/4", later 18 3/4" dia. cylinders, short 26" stroke, poppet valves and very high superheat.  With very short trains, they would have a chance to accelerate to high speeds in relatively short periods of time..  The notebooks that recorded this information may exist, but they have not been published. Additionally, most simulation methods become very inaccurate above about 100  mph, largely because they are empirical, and not much real data is/was available above that speed.  As a result, there is no proof that these speeds were ever realized.  They are hearsay,  but tantalizingly possible.

On the purely emotional side, wouldn't it have been something to see a T1 roaring through town at 100 mph and still accelerating to make up time?

Dave Stephenson

,.  

On Friday, February 7, 2020, 7:05:30 PM EST, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 

What’re your thoughts on the anecdotal reports of PRR T-1’s hitting the 140 mph mark west of Crestline, OH?

It’s been a while but I think the first time I read that might’ve been in Alvin Stauffer’s book on Pennsy Power.

Patrick Whalen
Radnor, PA

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 5:07 PM NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

  Thanks for the info. Wow. I didn’t think they could go that fast. 

  -Phil Miller

  From: NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 2:51 PM
  To: NW Mailing List
  Subject: Re: Virginian PA locomotive speed

  With the 69” drivers and the cylinder dimensoins, the PA’s could be expected to cruise at 85 MPH range.  The N&W 100-series engines could be expected to run in the same range.

  The Js can’t be considered in comparison with ANY other steam locomotive.  They were so well designed including their counterbalancing that they could operate comfortably at driver RPMs in excess of 500 and could reach speeds in excess of that.  

  Remember that if a locomotive  operating a a speed equalling their driving wheel diameter, those wheels will be turning up 336 RPM.  There were many locomotives that could operate in the 400 RPM range.  There were others not comfortable at 336 (the Atlantic Coast Line’s 1800-series Northerns, for example).

  - Ed King

  From: NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List 

  Sent: Friday, February 07, 2020 12:13 PM

  To: 'NW Mailing List' 

  Cc: NW Mailing List 

  Subject: Virginian PA locomotive speed

  Hello,

  I wondered if anyone can tell me how fast the Virginian PA passenger locomotives could or did run?  I’m wondering about their designed top speed and normal schedule running speed. I’m sure it’s slower than the N&W J’s but would they have been comparable to older N&W passenger engines? 

  Phil Miller

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  ________________________________________
  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
  To change your subscription go to
  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
  Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

  ________________________________________
  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
  To change your subscription go to
  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
  Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://pairlist6.pair.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20200208/178281a1/attachment-0001.html>