Scrap Metal Value of N&W Big Steam (NW Mailing List)

Tue Jun 6 18:21:40 EDT 2017

Jerome

Sadly, Roanoke started as a City Park in 1962, the single solitary steam locomotive that was on the property was 611, and the ONLY reason it was still there is Graham Claytor's persistance with Stuart Saunders. I will give Saunders the credit of not immediately scrapping the 611, it could have been done with the stroke of the pen, but I feel like he valued his friendship with Graham Claytor more than he valued the scrapping of a single locomotive. By 1962, when the Transportation Museum was announced, Saunder's scorched earth policy on steam was already over. There was no steam to save. Anything that was available had already been sold.

The N&W donated very little in the big picture, 2 ancient 2-8-0s, the 2156, the 578 and 433. Not totally because there were not requests, I suspect, but it was more of making it a "modern" N&W and there was more perceived value in scrapping and the bottom line than public relations.

Sure, don't we all wish N&W had saved stuff like the Pennsy did. But there was a difference, the Pennsy was so large, it was much easier for something to be "forgotten about" stored until the time came. By the time Saunders got to the Pennsy, it was the least of his concern, I am certain.

Ken Miller

On Jun 6, 2017, at 5:53 PM, NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List wrote:

> Once upon a time, there was no such thing as a Transportation Museum.  But now, in numerous locations;
> they do exist.  I have visited Steamtown ( 2 locations ); Railroader's Memorial Museum ( Altoona ); and now
> serve as a tour guide at the MOT ( St. Louis ).  Each had a beginning, and in some fashion, acquired the 
> collection of artifacts which they maintain for visitors.  The Museum in Roanoke is but a shadow of what 
> "might have been ".  Not meant as a blast at the N&W; they had a window of opportunity and chose not 
> to act.  Sure would have been nice to visit a restored A, J, improved Y, K, S; maybe even the shell of JH.
> 
> PRR did save 'one of each', storing them at Northumberland PA until "someone" created the State Museum 
> at Strasburg.  UP donated a number of retired steamers across the breadth of its domain.  But other railroads
> did not.  Notably, the NYC, CNJ, Wabash, etc.  My personal mission at the MOT is to help visitors understand 
> the history of Railroading, using the collection started by Doctor Roberts in 1946.
> 
> Jerome Crosson;  NWHS, formerly NJ, now St. Peters MO.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Tue, Jun 6, 2017 4:08 pm
> Subject: Re: RE Scrap Metal Value of N&W Big Steam (NW Mailing List)
> 
> Kevin There were a number of factors why more locomotives were not saved. There was no Transportation Museum in Roanoke, there was no organized group in Roanoke. In those days, if an NRHS Chapter had $1,000 in the bank, it was unusual. There were no real champions to step up with money and a home for saved locomotives either. In addition, there was a recession on in 1959. With no leader with a vision, the local groups just sort of splintered to nothing. There was also the edict from Saunders to make sure none of that stuff is able to be made to run. For the story of how 611 was saved though the efforts of Graham Claytor (and Bob behind the scenes) you can read that in "Three Times A Lady" or a condensed version in my book on the Class J. Graham in the person who deserves the credit for saving 611, Bob could only do so much within N&W, he was a young executive, with a career to keep in mind. He did however, make sure that nothing happened to 611 to prevent her later operation. The 604 was the first to be retired at Shaffers Crossing on October 24, 1958. The other 13 were still power for secondary trains and several served in time freight service on the Scioto Division, there was a uptick in use with heavy mail and express traffic for the holiday season, but by January 1959, a group was stored at Bluefield, some at Portsmouth and a few at Roanoke. Several were in use in local service on the Norfolk Division out of Crewe and Lamberts Point. The 602 was second to be retired at Bluefield on January 8, 1959. 607 followed on February 22, 1959. 601 and 613 were both retired on Mach 27, 1959 The 603 was next on April 24, 1959 606, 608 and 609 were all retired on May 22, 1959 at Bluefield 605 retired on June 15, 1959, 600 was retired the next day 610 and 612 both were retired on August 21, 1959. Without any kind of documentation, but based on observation of photos, I suspect the last Js under steam were the ones used in local freight on the Norfolk Division and they were stored sometime in late April 1959. If someone has some good details, I'd love to see it. I'd guess the last one cut up might have been in early 1960. Now I found it interesting that not one of the 14 was scrapped in Roanoke, even though Virginia Scrap Iron and Metal and United Iron and Metal both scrapped a variety of steam late, with United scrapping their last in the mid 1970s. Ken Miller On Jun 6, 2017, at 11:52 AM, NW Mailing List wrote: > Thanks to all for the insight. For a mere 5K (though a fair amount of money in 1959) I am surprised other loco's weren't saved/bought out from under the scrapper. > > To Ken MIller; > > Yes my mention of the Lost Engines of Roanoke may not have quite fit my narrative of those locos that could have been saved but weren't. But, I thought I recall several individuals and groups tried to acquire them many years ago but were always rebuffed until they were "saved" several years ago. So I brought them up in passing. I am sure there are better examples but not sure of that. > > To Jack: > Prince's book "Norfolk & Western Railway‑‑Pocahontas Coal Carrier" has a list of every N&W steam locomotive with info such as builder, build date, construction no., disposition, etc." From page 147 I found the following > > 600 Scrapped June 1959 > 613 Scrapped March 1959 > > In fact all J's appear to have been scrapped/sold in 1959. Of course with the exception of 611. > > Kevin Byrd > Chesterfield, VA ________________________________________ NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org To change your subscription go to http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
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