Numbers

Mon Aug 17 00:14:51 EDT 2015

"Over designed" for service? The Class J was designed to handle 16 cars on 
grades of 1.4 percent at 45-50 MPH.  In 1950 when the 611-13 were built, the 
railway said the 600's developed more tractive power between 40 and 60 MPH 
than 6000 HP diesels could on the grades that characterized N&W.

Were demands greater in excursion than revenue service?  During excursions, 
611 has pulled some 22 coaches which would probably equate to a lesser 
number in revenue service.  In the 40s and 50s, many coaches were heavy 
weight cars so the weight per car was greater.  In revenue service the J 
operated at 45-50 MPH on the heavy grades;  but excursions over these heavy 
grades are limited today in the 20-25 range since elevation on curves have 
been greatly reduced.  You be the judge.

To use 4-6-4s on the N&W would have been one of the greatest motive power 
blunders of all.

Bud Jeffries

-----Original Message----- 
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Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2015 7:30 PM
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Subject: Re: Numbers

Dave:  A thought along different lines:  the J's job in regular service was
less demanding
than the train length / weight during excursion service.  Would an N&W
design along the
lines of the NYC / ALCo J3 Hudsons be closer to the actual need of the
1940-1960 era ?

Jerome Crosson; St Peters MO

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Sent: Tue, Aug 11, 2015 11:48 am
Subject: Re: Numbers

Jerome:

I think you'd have a hard time making a compelling case that the J was
"overdesigned."  Repeating what many have already said, and as Col. Jeffries
illustrated in his book when he reproduced the N&W curves, the J was
designed to have very high drawbar horsepower in the mid-speed range, and
decent high speed capability when the track allowed.  Slogging up ruling
grades with 20+ trailing cars, exciting in excursion service, wasn't the
point.  High average speeds with varying consists, coming out of, for
example, 30 mph curves and getting quickly back up to the 60-65 mph
typically allowed on tangents, without doubleheading, was the point, and
that the J did very nicely.

Regards,

Dave Phelps

In a message dated 8/11/2015 6:46:09 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

    Roger:  My 2 cents regarding the A vs. the UP Challengers.  The A is
plus 14,000 pounds
on starting T.E.; has drivers 1 inch greater diameter; and weighs 50,000
pounds less.
The Y and the Big Boy are not directly comparable; although the Y's starting
T.E. is 30,000
pounds greater.  The J seems to have been overdesigned; approached its limit
more in
excursion service than in its pre 1960 'career'.

Jerome Crosson;  NWHS; st. Louis Museum of Transportation; residing in St.
Peters MO.

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Sent: Mon, Aug 10, 2015 5:39 pm
Subject: Re: Numbers

   "None of the UP’s big three (800, Challenger, Big Boy) could have come
down to the N&W and done what the N&W”s big three did."

    EdKing

And likewise, the N&W Magnificent Three wouldn't have been very productive
on the Onion Pathetic doing the jobs their ugly Big Three could do!

First they had lousy coal for the Pig Boy that worked for it but would have
gagged the N&W beasties.

The Y-6b couldn't have hauled at the speed the Challengers did.

The J would have beat itself to death running the speeds the FEF's were
operated even though it was proven to run pretty fast.

The A could have probably done the same job as the Challengers if they had
good coal.

I'm NOT a UP fan but steam engines were railroad and service specific and a
magnificent engine for one road wouldn't necessarily have been worth a flip
on another railroad for various reasons.

I think the Challengers and FEFs were very good engines. I think the Pig Boy
was a huge publicity event and the subject of way too much hype but then
again I'm rather prejudiced towards the A, AG, H-8, EM-1 and Missabe M-3/4s.
I don't care for the UP steamer look either compared to how the N&W
cosmetically treated their power. Apples vs oranges! I think the engineers &
designers in Roanoke were able to create much better esthetically pleasing
locomotives than Alco.

In reply to another post about the 3 engines side by side in Roanoke I think
seeing them in 2015 all together is just as impressive an event as having
the 611 out running again. Who would have ever dreamed we'd see that again?
WOW!!!

Anyway, just my 2¢!

Roger Huber

Deer Creek Locomotive Works

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       From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 6:33 AM
Subject: Re: Numbers

          I confess – the sum of the N&W big three adding up to the UP
4-6-6-4 was sent me by Vello Nickolaou, an old friend who just got back home
after viewing all three at the VMT.  Vello was the producer of some of the
railroad programs done by the Histrophy Channel a few years back.

          And Mike is correct – 3985=676!

          And, Mike, Clinchfield 677 is coming out of my backshop soon.  I
always wanted a Bowser Wowser, and I’m finally getting mine done, thanks to
the Rev. Jim Nichols who supplied some needed parts.  I numbered it after a
Southern Ks 2-8-0 that was at Bristol for a spell.  Fits right after the
renumbered UP job.

          And no, Frank; the N&W big three do not in any other respects add
up to a UP Challenger.  None of the UP’s big three (800, Challenger, Big
Boy) could have come down to the N&W and done what the N&W”s big three did.

          EdKing

              From:               NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List

              Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 9:35 PM

              To:               NW Mailing List

              Cc:               NW Mailing List

              Subject: Re: Numbers

I drove past VMT yesterday (8/8/15) and all three were lined up under the
pavilion (1218, 611, 2156, left to right, viewed from Shenandoah Ave north
side of the tracks), not a tarp in sight.  They looked pretty good to me!!

Dave

                   From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 11:15 AM
Subject: RE: Numbers

                       3985…. And are all three under tarps at VMT? What is
the reason to visit Roanoke and VMT if they are.

                       Mason Cooper

                          From:                           NW-Mailing-List
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2015 9:52 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Numbers

                           What is the sum of 611, 1218 and 2156?

                           EdKing

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