Numbers

Tue Aug 11 10:01:06 EDT 2015

Jerome,
I'm not debating weights, TE or any specs nor concerned about them at all. My point was that each railroad had certain design requirements to be met. One efficient, well designed engine on one railroad wouldn't necessarily be good for another railroad. Look at the tests on the N&W and Pennsy with the J, T-1 and Q classes. The T-1 was basically successful (read the PRRT&HS Keystone articles about the engine) for what it was designed for on the PRR. On the N&W it wasn't very impressive. Still a great engine for it's designed purpose-high speed, heavy passenger/mail trains across flat country. The J could have adequately replaced doubleheaded K4s Pacifics in that service but the Pennsy was concerned about the high driver and motion speeds. They admitted the J was fabulous (didn't we ALREADY KNOW THAT? LOL) but they were serious concerns running that fast day in and day out. Over-designed-YES, suitable for that service-NO. 

Comparing OUR Big 3 to the UP's Big 3 just isn't a fair comparison. The J wasn't designed for huge high speed mail trains running across Nebraska and as such wouldn't have been a good "fit" for the UP over their FEF's yet both were amazing engines. Yes, the Pig Boy and Y-6 were totally different other than using steam and being standard gauge. My connection was that out of each railroad's Big 3 THAT was the drag freight type engine of them. 

I think the only reasonably accurate comparison between the engines would be the A vs the Challengers. They both were efficient engines with high BP, relatively equal drivers, speed and steaming capacity. Both were built to haul a lot of freight at higher than available train speeds and did good jobs.
I just prefer OUR engines!
My 2¢,Roger HuberDeer Creek Locomotive Works

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 Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 6:41 PM
 Subject: Re: Numbers

Roger:  My 2 cents regarding the A vs. the UP Challengers.  The A is plus 14,000 pounds
on starting T.E.; has drivers 1 inch greater diameter; and weighs 50,000 pounds less.
The Y and the Big Boy are not directly comparable; although the Y's starting T.E. is 30,000
pounds greater.  The J seems to have been overdesigned; approached its limit more in
excursion service than in its pre 1960 'career'.

Jerome Crosson;  NWHS; st. Louis Museum of Transportation; residing in St. Peters MO.

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  "None of the UP’s big three (800, Challenger, Big Boy) could have come down to the N&W and done what the N&W”s big three did."  

    EdKing  

And likewise, the N&W Magnificent Three wouldn't have been very productive on the Onion Pathetic doing the jobs their ugly Big Three could do!    

First they had lousy coal for the Pig Boy that worked for it but would have gagged the N&W beasties.    

The Y-6b couldn't have hauled at the speed the Challengers did.  

The J would have beat itself to death running the speeds the FEF's were operated even though it was proven to run pretty fast.  

The A could have probably done the same job as the Challengers if they had good coal.  

 I'm NOT a UP fan but steam engines were railroad and service specific and a magnificent engine for one road wouldn't necessarily have been worth a flip on another railroad for various reasons.    

I think the Challengers and FEFs were very good engines. I think the Pig Boy was a huge publicity event and the subject of way too much hype but then again I'm rather prejudiced towards the A, AG, H-8, EM-1 and Missabe M-3/4s. I don't care for the UP steamer look either compared to how the N&W cosmetically treated their power. Apples vs oranges! I think the engineers & designers in Roanoke were able to create much better esthetically pleasing locomotives than Alco.  

In reply to another post about the 3 engines side by side in Roanoke I think seeing them in 2015 all together is just as impressive an event as having the 611 out running again. Who would have ever dreamed we'd see that again? WOW!!!  

Anyway, just my 2¢!  

Roger Huber  

Deer Creek Locomotive Works  

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      From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
 To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> 
 Sent: Monday, August 10, 2015 6:33 AM
 Subject: Re: Numbers

          I confess – the sum of the N&W big three adding up to the UP 4-6-6-4 was sent me by Vello Nickolaou, an old friend who just got back home after viewing all three at the VMT.  Vello was the producer of some of the railroad programs done by the Histrophy Channel a few years back.        

          And Mike is correct – 3985=676!           

          And, Mike, Clinchfield 677 is coming out of my backshop soon.  I always wanted a Bowser Wowser, and I’m finally getting mine done, thanks to the Rev. Jim Nichols who supplied some needed parts.  I numbered it after a Southern Ks 2-8-0 that was at Bristol for a spell.  Fits right after the renumbered UP job.        

          And no, Frank; the N&W big three do not in any other respects add up to a UP Challenger.  None of the UP’s big three (800, Challenger, Big Boy) could have come down to the N&W and done what the N&W”s big three did.        

          EdKing        

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              Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2015 9:35 PM            

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              Subject: Re: Numbers            

I drove past VMT yesterday (8/8/15) and all three were lined up under the pavilion (1218, 611, 2156, left to right, viewed from Shenandoah Ave north side of the tracks), not a tarp in sight.  They looked pretty good to me!!              

Dave                

                  From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> 
Sent: Sunday, August 9, 2015 11:15 AM
Subject: RE: Numbers

                      3985…. And are all three under tarps at VMT? What is the reason to visit Roanoke and VMT if they are.                      

                      Mason Cooper                      

                          From:                          NW-Mailing-List [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, August 8, 2015 9:52 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Numbers                        

                          What is the sum of 611, 1218 and 2156?                                                    

                          EdKing                                                    

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