Concrete Water Tank

NW Mailing List nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Sat Feb 14 21:15:32 EST 2015 

It appears to me that there would be no water in the structure below the level of the spout; what would be the  point of having to pump it into a tender?  It’s likely that all the space under that height would be empty.

Ed King

From: NW Mailing List 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 9:53 AM
To: NW Mailing List 
Subject: Re: Concrete Water Tank

You are assuming that water filled the entire height of the structure.  The tank held only 200,000 gallons total (about 830 tons) and that was in the upper portion of the structure.  Then there was the tank floor (which is the ceiling to the room below) this varied in thickness from about a foot in the center to more than three at the edges.  The actual outside diameter was about 33.5 feet for the whole structure.  Water is heavy which creates a lot of force on the walls.  And then there is the footer that went at least six feet below ground and was nine and a half feet wide at the base along with the concrete floor of the room.  The large amount of steel items such as the large amount of rebar, (8, 12 and 14-inch) piping with treatment equipment added more weight to the structure as well.

The resulting reinforced concrete structure was very significant.  A general calculation would put the structure with the steel items was about equal to the weight of the water it held.  My using the term “incidental” may not have been the best word to use, I still contend that the filled water tank created a very significant facility bearing a lot of weight.

Bud Jeffries

From: NW Mailing List via NW-Mailing-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2015 10:43 PM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org 
Subject: Re: Concrete Water Tank

Water has a density of ~62.3 lbs per cubic foot.  A round water tank 30 ft wide (inside diameter) and 60 ft tall would hold approximately 42400 cubic ft of water weighing over 2,600,000 lbs (1300 tons) if filled all the way to the top.   Assuming a 1 ft thick wall, the tank would require approximately 5840 cubic ft of concrete weighing ~875,000 lbs.  The concrete is heavy, but the water is heavy too.

Jason Maxwell

In a message dated 2/11/2015 5:58:58 A.M. Central Standard Time, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
  The weight of water is incidental to the weight of the structure.  While water is 8.33 pounds per gallon, concrete is about 150 pounds per cubic foot or about two tons per cubic yard.  I don’t know the number of cubic yards of concrete in a water tank, but it is many.  The weight of the structure is huge and the weight of water in relation is incidental.  A water tank that has one-foot thick walls, sixty feet tall and about 30 feet across has many cubic yards of concrete.  The footers and foundation has to support a huge weight.

  Bud Jeffries

  From: NW Mailing List 
  Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2015 9:07 PM
  To: NW Mailing List 
  Subject: Re: Concrete Water Tank

  Chief Engineer's drawing L-230, "Norfolk & Western Railroad [sic] Standard 200,000 and 250,000 Gallon Reinforced Concrete Water Tank," 6/17/19 (NWHS No. HS-D00252) that I mentioned in a previous posting shows a 9' - 6" wide circular footing with the bottom of the footing 6' - 6" below base of rail.  A "Detail of Footing where Piles Are Used" on the same drawing shows a 5' - 6" wide circular footing bearing on 50 piles (size not specified), with the bottom of the footer likewise 6' - 6" below base of rail.  A note under the latter detail reads, "If larger foundation is required than shown on drawing, size to be satisfactory to the Engineer of the N. and W. Railroad [sic]."

  Gordon Hamilton
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: NW Mailing List 
    To: N&W Mailing List 
    Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2015 8:25 AM
    Subject: Re: Concrete Water Tank

    This discussion can be carried to another level.

    A 200,000 gal water tank holds about 800 tons of water (200,000  gals X 8 lb gal = 800 tons.)  Spread that weight out over a dozen footers, and each footer must support (only) 66 tons of water + some additional load for the structure.

    That is not a lot of weight for a footer to carry, but I am wondering how footings were handled in places like the Dismal Swamp?  How deeply were they carried down, and how does one excavate to bed rock in a swamp...?

    A 200,000 gal tank could fill twenty very old 10,000 gal tenders, ten modern 20,000 gal tenders, or 6.6  30,000 gal whopper tenders.  This makes me wonder about the re-fill rate.  Anyone know the hourly capacity of the steam, distillate engine and electric motor pumps which were, over the years, used to re-fill the N&W tanks?

    Some railroads had a Superintendent of Water Service.  Who, on the N&W, wore the King-Waterboy hat?  And did this function (water supply) fall under the Motive Power or the MW Department?

    -- abram burnett

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