paint and lettering

Fri May 23 21:07:25 EDT 2014

Tom,

Are you wanting to get vinyl cut lettering from a local sign company? I  
would have a file for that.

Thanks,

Richard D. Shell
ShellScale Decals

In a message dated 5/23/2014 1:56:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

Thanks for the info. What  I am trying to do is paint the door to my train 
room and then add a medallion  with the N&W lettering on it. Just trying to 
get close enough.  Tom Anson 

Sent from my LG G Flex, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

------ Original  message------ 
From: NW Mailing  List 
Date: Tue, Apr  22, 2014 1:17 PM 
To: NW Mailing  List; 
Subject:Re: paint  and lettering 
Thomas  

This subject has come up again and again, on both this and the  Virginian 
list. Perhaps I should write an article about it with  examples. This can be 
a really complicated subject, and getting it  right is not always easy and 
in the case with models frequently done  incorrectly.

I am only going to address the Norfolk and Western and Virginian. I've  not 
really studied either 1970, since I've not truly studied the lettering  
after that time, there is no such thing as a standard "font" for either  
railroad. 

>From _Dictionary.com_ (http://dictionary.com/) :
font (noun) a complete assortment of type of one style and size.

The term font was truly a term that only designers, commercial artists  and 
printers used until the arrival of the personal computer with more than a  
couple of fonts in the mid to late 1980s, with that and the very first laser 
 printers to be readily available to consumers, font became more of a 
household  term. A font normally consists of a complete series of letters, 
numbers and  various symbols or punctuation, all done in a similar style to the 
other. The  key term there is "complete" i.e. the entire alphabet.

In the 1950s (if I recall correctly) the C&O adopted a Futura font,  (I 
think bold) as a lettering font for diesels and equipment, prior to that,  the 
Pennsylvania adopted a Clarendon font as a lettering font. However, the  N&W 
and VGN did not use anything that is classified as a font.

For model purposes, I've seen several decal companies that simply use a  
computer font rather than the correct lettering. I recall a friend having me  
over about 10-12 years ago, proud to show off the Virginian hopper decals he 
 had just purchased. I took one look at the sheets and said they are not 
right.  The person producing them was using a standard computer font, slightly 
 stretched and pointed out what was wrong. They might have looked OK to an  
untrained eye, but they were dead wrong. Either the maker did not have the  
skill to actually draw the material, lack of training to really know the  
difference, or perhaps figured it was "close enough" and he need not bother  
doing it right.

Let me give some background on myself before I continue. I've probably  
studied this subject as close as anyone out here. I am a graphic designer by  
trade, and paint and lettering for railroad equipment and signage is a  
personal interest as well as professional. I have lettered a large amount of  
full size equipment; numerous passenger cars, cabooses, diesel locomotives,  
steam locomotives including the N&W 1218, VGN 4, C&O 614 Western  Maryland No. 
6, BC&G No. 14 and as soon as weather permits, N&W No. 6.  All this 
lettering was totally recreated for modern use by my drawing, from  either tracing 
original lettering going back some decades, working from  drawings, or 
photos using known dimensions. 

For example, lets look at the Norfolk and Western that was used on the  
passenger cars. This lettering is 6 inch tall extended width. The origins of  
that lettering appears to me to have been derived from letters used by the  
Pennsylvania Railroad, at least as far back as the 1880s. This would not be  
surprising with Pennsy having a financial stake in the Norfolk and  Western.

However, the earliest drawing of the passenger lettering I have, which is  
not handy to look at the date, but is probably about 1890, and was slightly  
revised over the years. This however, is not a complete font, the drawing  
consists of only letters that make up the words "Norfolk and Western"  
originally "Norfolk & Western", it is missing the letters B, C, G, H, I,  J, M, 
P, Q, U, V, X, Y and Z. A separate drawing covers the numbers, 0-9. But  
those other letters did not exist to Norfolk and Westen. 

A few weeks ago, one of our members posted this:

N&W  lettering is similar to RAILROAD ROMAN ( a font now) but it differs 
quite a  bit.

I would have to disagree with that last comment, similar would  be that the 
letters are similar shapes, i.e. an "A" still looks like an "A"  but the 
thicks and thins and curved shapes on normal Railroad Roman make it  VERY 
different from the Norfolk and Western steam or passenger lettering. The  only 
connection that I see to Railroad Roman is that an "A" is still an "A" in  
both styles, otherwise, it is a long way apart.

Since there is always a heated discussion of the color of N&W Tuscan  Red, 
it is very difficult to answer. A lot of what you want depends on how it  is 
used, is it for full size equipment or a model railroad? Most paint used  
for full size equipment is some variation of an automotive or commercial 
grade  type paint that does not translate to models. These types of paint tend 
to  have various materials such as a hardener added to it prior to 
application,  not lending itself to modeling. So, for model work, paint codes really 
don't  mean a lot.

Color in general is very tough, Tuscan varied over the years, both in  
application, surface prep, repeated washings, sun fading, etc. Color is also  
very much subject to perception and personal interpretation. It can change  
depending on how you view it, the type of light, aging, was the paint applied  
properly, was the surface prep done well, thousands of factors. 

Judging color also depends on depends on your source, if you are trying  to 
judge color, different film types records the same color differently,  
Kodachrome, Ektachrome, Fuji, Ansochrome and company, all look different, not  
to mention how that film was stored over time, how it was taken care of, the  
amount of times it was projected, etc. etc.

Paint itself has changed considerably over the years, pigment is a lot  
more stable and lasts a lot longer than it used to.

The paint mix by the painter can also change the color. The story I was  
told of the  famed Pennsylvania Brunswick Green was that it was made by  
adding yellow chromate to black paint, a handful or two to a drum. Now, how  many 
variables does that add to the equation? How big a handful? How big was  
the persons hand? What if someone new was doing it, and added 3-4 handfuls?  
Who is to know? How much thinner did the put in the paint? What was the 
primer  color underneath? So many variable elements.

I really get a good laugh out of folks talking about "well it looks like  
this on the video, or on YouTube" again, all that is perception, your TV, 
your  computer monitor, except in very rare cases are not calibrated, and color 
is  your perception of what you see. The lighting in the room, the color on 
the  walls, the area around your TV or monitor, even the desktop color on 
the  monitor, all can change color perception. Even if you go purchase a 
color  calibration system, a lot has to do with the source image,  how it was  
scanned or tranferred from film, if the original film was exposed correctly,  
was the sun out, was it a cloudy day, was the paint fresh, where was the 
car  painted, did it go through the car washer recently, or a rain storm, 
etc.. All  that factors in. Your models are rarely seen in what is actual 
daylight or the  light color equivalent of it.

Now, all that being said, and this is only a single example, you can  
interpret it as you like. The Roanoke Chapter NRHS owns several ex N&W  passenger 
cars, tool car 1407, coach 537 and 512. Of these, all are in need of  new 
paint. However, when last painted, at least for 537 and 512, we used  
automotive paint, that was specified as "1976 Lincoln Continental Dark Red No.  2". 
We went to an automotive paint dealer to get that. I have a can with  
tuscan red in my cabinet that was used on the N&W units painted in the  late 
1970s, but it is not handy at the moment to get the code, and if I recall  
correctly, it was metallic paint as well.

Now in very recent years, paint has changed considerably, and former  paint 
formulas that once were good, are different in this day and  time. 

Questions? Feel free. Sorry this is so long, but it is a detailed subject  
and question.

Ken Miller

On Apr 18, 2014, at 8:36 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

Anyone know what the lettering font was in the 50's?
Also need a  paint number for the Tuscan red.

Thomas  Anson

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