Restoration candidates

[NW Mailing List]

To the person who posted below

I've held up a day or two on my response, simply to make sure I said it the way I wanted it. I am NOT starting a flame war.

I'm sorry the discussion seems to bore you. Whatever your opinion might be, it would be nice if was not too much effort to  sign your posts. It is easy to make statements and hide without a name. 

I will also point out that if you do not like a subject on the list, there is one real simple solution simply hit the delete key. I am not trying to start a flame war, simply observing your comments on what seems to be a fairly reasonable discussion

In the meantime, it seems that more folks that have continue the thread that either feel the discussion is good or interesting.

I think in the future, I believe that the moderator should reject posts that are not signed. I realize, Ron, that this means more work for you, but anyone can post a lengthy diatribe with what appears to add little to a discussion when they remain unknown.

In your post you say "...let's get on with some real productive and  investigative discussion."

That would be fine, perhaps you can leading the way, show us what you want and can do. Start the discussion.

Further on your comment :
"...the idea of permanently stuffing and mounting these iron horses in a permanent manner, and many others for that matter, too, I find sad. I can go to a zoo and see stuffed and mounted long-deceased animals, but to see the beats roam in its native habitat, now THAT's something to behold, be it Y6a, or any of the dozens of others around, many of which have received minimal care, which is also sad."

Indeed, I agree, seeing a living piece of history is far superior to cold and dead, however, a number of factors come into play. The two largest factors are to have a place suitable to operate such equipment. 611, 1218 and many others are large, heavy locomotives. While branch lines with lighter rail can handle the 2-8-0s, bigger power requires heavier rail, more gentle curves, in other words, a piece of mainline railroad. In case you have not noticed, not many groups or museums own or have ready access to a mainline railroad that is more than willing to cooperate.

We have to be more cautious today, any sort of accident, derailment, problem can easily stop any and all excursions. A large steam locomotive restoration involves a huge investment by a person or persons. Would you want to see it laid on its side due to a rail turning over on a light or poorly maintained track? It is also not as simple to return to service, or even pick up a large locomotive as it once was. The lighter the track, the less likely a heavy wreck car can come in. Today's modern wreck outfits will do far more damage to a steam locomotive than proper rigging to lift and return to the rails.

I honestly know of very few places that a museum has access to track that can meet those standards, IRM is one with a very decent track to operate on, but beyond that, please educate the list as to who and where they are in the US.

Second, where does the money come from to restore and operate this? That was part of the purpose of my lengthy post of December 13 outlining the costs of a 611 or 1218 restoration, albeit more than 25 years ago. Many of the folks reading this list are honestly not aware of the factors involved, and particularly the overall costs of restoring a mainline steam locomotive and the ongoing costs of keeping it operating. Ideally, operating costs are covered by ticket sales, but not always. One also has to remember, that steam locomotive is only part of the picture, there still needs to be some sort of train behind it, and that is a whole additional set of costs.

Most fans do not have a clue as to the multiple factors and escalating costs of running any sort of steam locomotive and excursion train. I'll be glad to expand on this if anyone is interested in that discussion.

In regards to your last line about receiving minimal care. What have been your contribution towards preservation or restoration work? I have been involved in a wide variety of restoration or preservation projects over the past 35 or so years, and will be more than happy to list some of them. I'd be interested to hear what you contributions of time, money and/or "sweat equity" have been.

Ken Miller
(who does sign his posts!)

On Dec 16, 2013, at 9:58 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:


> The conversations here have been all over the place of all the coulda, woulda, shoulda, wanta, wannabes for restoring this or that favorite locomotive, wherever it may be located, and hopefully preserved. Enough already, let it go, let's move on as at least these two animals are forever ensconced in their respective museums, probably for eternity, stuffed and mounted. The animal is no longer free to roam where it once did so quite successfully.

> 

> Many such properties, once they receive such things do not feel the need or desire to let it out of their grasp ever again, for whatever the reason. IRM is not one of such properties as they have probably done a better job at restoration and preservation than many others. They are not perfect but they try hard and mean well and do share.

> 

> As for the 2156 owners, regardless of the cracked frame segments, all that is restoreable should the parties so desire. All it takes is a willing railroad and then lots of $$$$$$$$. Over the years, take a look at what significant rail objects with flanged wheels this property has permitted to return to its former environments or even off its own property unless in the total care, custody and control of its people? Answer -- little if anything significant. Five years ago, Who would have thought that a Big Boy really would be restored? Okay, it hasn't happened yet, but ifr I were a gambler, I wouldn't be making odds against this one. However, look at what has departed St. Louis, once it was there? Answer -- not much and if so name it, please? What HASN'T left where genuinely interested and caring parties would have liked the items back into its original home territory for display and recognitions? The Reading inspection engine didn't leave; neither did the 2156 some 30+ years ago when polite and discreet inquiries were made. And then DL&W 952, albeit with some serious faux-pas on the parts of both interested parties, still sits in St. Louis, too. Nothing leaves there once it arrives and barring a serious change in managerial attitude, probably never will, either.

> 

> Everything can't "return home" sure and the parties which have served as the willing hosts need proper appreciations made on their behalf, but the idea of permanently stuffing and mounting these iron horses in a permanent manner, and many others for that matter, too, I find sad. I can go to a zoo and see stuffed and mounted long-deceased animals, but to see the beats roam in its native habitat, now THAT's something to behold, be it Y6a, or any of the dozens of others around, many of which have received minimal care, which is also sad.

> 

> So, unless there is something new, let's cut this discussion as it's going to lead nowhere further and let's get on with some real productive and  investigative discussion.