N&W/Southern thru passenger service

[NW Mailing List]

N&W trains Nos. 9 and 10 were primarily head-end trains that provided local 
service between Monroe (engine change point)-Lynchburg and Bristol.  Their 
schedules appeared in the public timetables.  They connected at Monroe with 
Southern trains Nos. 141 and 142, whose schedules appeared in employee but 
not public timetables.

While the schedules varied thru the years, 141 and 142 generally followed 41 
and 42 on the Southern.  On the N&W, No. 9 generally followed No. 41 into 
Roanoke, laid over for several hours, and left Roanoke for Bristol around 
noon.  No. 10 left Bristol about 1:00 PM, arrived Roanoke about 6:00 PM, 
laid over and followed No. 42 to Monroe.

Louis Newton

--------------------------------------------------
From: <nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 11:28 AM
To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 88, Issue 44


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> Today's Topics:

>

>   1. Re: N&W/Southern thru passenger service (NW Mailing List)

>   2. Re: N&W model steam engine (NW Mailing List)

>   3. Re: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 88, Issue 39 (NW Mailing List)

>   4. Re: Shoofly (NW Mailing List)

>   5. Re: N&W/Southern thru passenger service (NW Mailing List)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 19:45:56 -0500

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: Re: N&W/Southern thru passenger service

> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Message-ID: <01B080D0-8D4F-4681-BB9E-75ABE9AA5AAF at vt.edu>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

>

> There was also a Southern/N&W train that ran until the early 1950's that 

> was primarily a mail train with a rider coach. Perhaps Louis Newton or 

> someone else can  provide more information about this pair of trains. My 

> recollection is that the east/northbound train left Roanoke late in the 

> evening and arrived Lynchburg in the early morning. I have no information 

> about the south/westbound counterpart.

>

>

>      Ray Smoot

>

> On Nov 27, 2012, at 4:26 PM, "NW Mailing List" 

> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:

>

>

> Not to be forgotten, my list friends, is that the Southern ran their three 

> Lynchburg trains well after Amtrak started. Without looking up dates, the 

> Lynchburg Special (the remnant of the Birmingham Special or Tennessean) 

> was cancelled first. The Piedmont, an SR Washington/Atlanta (?) only train 

> was next. The Southern Crescent survived by becoming part of AMTRAK in the 

> fall of '78. The D&RGW was the only (I think)other RR to keep their 

> regularly scheduled passenger trains after AMTRAK.

> Charlie Long

> Lynchburg, VA

>

>

> I believe we have most of the name trains that ran the Washington to 

> Atlanta route of Southern.  First the Southerner and Crescent, with the 

> Peach Queen.

> My June 15, 1969 schedule shows Southerner as trains 47/48, the Crescent 

> train 38 north bound, the Peach Queen the Southbound train 29.  These 

> trains were merged by the next timetable I have for May1974 to form the 

> Southern Crescent, trains 1 and 2, which is the train Amtrak(19/20) still 

> operates today.  Power was always the the green and imitation aluminum 

> E8's.  As someone mentioned routing at times was over the A&WP and L&N. 

> In 1974 The Crescent ran daily to Birmingham and try-weekly on to New 

> Orleans.

>

> The Piedmont was I believe a all coach train(was assigned a grill/coach) 

> that ran Washington to Atlanta.  Power was usually the FP7's and freight 

> locos as late in life this train handled hot shot piggybacks to Potomac 

> yard. At times handled local locomotives that were moved to and from 

> Atlanta for service and inspection.  Now is a NCDOT train with Amtrak for 

> Charlotte to Raleigh service(73/74)

>

> The Asheville Train was the Carolina Special which came from Cincinnati to 

> Asheville and was split there into two sections, one to South Carolina 

> running I believe all the way to Charleston for a period using Saluda 

> grade.  the North Carolina section ran from Asheville to Greenville, NC 

> via Winston Salem/ Greensboro.  Power was passenger equipped F3's and or 

> FP7's.  It did have the Wabash dome from the N&W.  The Asheville special 

> ran Asheville to Greensboro, NC via Winston Salem, to connect with the 

> Peach Queen and Crescent.  Later was from Salisbury to Asheville.  The 

> other dome from the N&W was assigned to the Crescent but came no farther 

> north than Atlanta in that service.

>

> The Carolinian was another all coach which I believe was Charlotte, NC to 

> Washington DC thru Raleigh there transferred to the Seaboard.  This train 

> is operated by Amtrak(79/80) with the same routing.

>

> The Pelican is listed in 1969 as DC to Bristol.

>

> I hope this wasn't to long and not really what I had in mind with my 

> original question.  But thanks for the great discussion and I hope this 

> helps.

>

> James Wall

> Rural Hall, NC

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> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 2

> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 21:53:19 -0500

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: Re: N&W model steam engine

> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

> Message-ID: <50B57C9F.9010500 at qtm.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"

>

> Straight from Princes book,

> this is a Y3, some engines had the angled numberboards some not, some

> had the air pumps mounted front some not.

> http://nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=33718

> Some locos may have been rebuilt to that look, then again it might be

> creative license by Life Like.

>

> -Lynn-

>

> On 11/27/2012 4:26 PM, nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org wrote:

>> Subject:

>> N&W model steam engine

>> From:

>> NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

>> Date:

>> 11/27/2012 2:54 PM

>>

>> To:

>> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

>>

>>

>> Gentlemen,

>>

>> I have picked up a N&W steam engine with the number 2009 on it. It is

>> a 2-8-8-2 with number boards up by the bell. I don't know just what

>> series this engine is and was wondering if it was one at all.

>>

>> I have a Y3a and a Y6b and the engine doesn't resemble either one.

>> There are 2 sets of 4 cylinders on the face.

>>

>> The model was made by Life-Like in the Proto 2000 Heritage Series.

>>

>> Can anyone tell anything about this engine?

>>

>> Thank you very much.

>>

>> Macdonald, RB

>>

>> mac at macdonald-studios.com

>>

>

>

>

>

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> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 3

> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2012 23:12:21 -0500

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: Re: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 88, Issue 39

> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Message-ID: <50B58F25.8050507 at fuse.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

>

> Correct on the Rock Island.  They did not join Amtrak at takeover and

> continued to run a couple of trains.

>

> I think the Georgia was the other line that didn't join.  They ran a

> mixed train for a number of years out of Atlanta (to Columbus?)

>

> I rode the Crescent once, from Atlanta to Clemson, SC, in the summer of

> 1978, before Amtrak took it over.

>

> Ed Bell

>

> On 11/27/2012 7:14 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

>> I'll stand corrected on this but I thought the Crescent was taken over

>> by Amtrak in February 1979? Also, as mentioned, the D&RGW didn't join

>> Amtrak initially either. Anyone "Remember the Rock?" I thought they,

>> too didn't initially join up in 1971.

>>

>> As for the date on the photo, there is another possible explanation IF

>> the date is accurate: some sort of temporary diversion. That's my 2

>> cents worth.

>>

>> Bob Cohen

>>

>>

>>   Subject: N&W/Southern thru passenger service

>>> Not to be forgotten, my list friends, is that the Southern ran their 

>>> three Lynchburg trains well after Amtrak started. Without looking up 

>>> dates, the Lynchburg Special (the remnant of the Birmingham Special or 

>>> Tennessean) was cancelled first. The Piedmont, an SR Washington/Atlanta 

>>> (?) only train was next. The Southern Crescent survived by becoming part 

>>> of AMTRAK in the fall of '78. The D&RGW was the only (I think) other RR 

>>> to keep their regularly scheduled passenger trains after AMTRAK.

>>> Charlie Long

>>> Lynchburg, VA

>>>

>>>

>>> -----Original Message-----

>>>> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

>>   N&W/Southern thru passenger service

>>>> Thanks for the answers.  I reason I asked was a photo in the new 

>>>> Southern in color V3 was captioned as a southbound train that would be 

>>>> going over the N&W. It was dated for after Amtrak day.  So I say the 

>>>> caption is wrong!

>>>>

>>>> James Wall

>>>> Rural Hall, NC

>>>> ________________________________________

>>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org

>>> Don't forget the Pelican, N&W 17 and 18.  Also ran New York/Washington 

>>> to

>>> New Orleans with sleeping cars for various destinations in the south.

>>>

>>> --Rick Morrison

>>>

>>>> The Birmingham Special and Tennessean were the two name trains handled 

>>>> by

>>>> the N&W.

>>>>

>>>> James Wall

>>>> Rural Hall, NC

>>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 4

> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 07:23:25 -0500

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: Re: Shoofly

> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Message-ID:

> <CAP58xFkQiJ==qv2xNL8r3h2dTyVpcziVz2zHn_Ds15zk4+26gw at mail.gmail.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

>

> Another possibility - since the track resembles the curves on the

> bottom of a rocking chair...

>

> shoo?fly/??u?fla?/ noun, plural shoo?flies.

> a child's rocker having a seat supported between two boards cut and

> painted to resemble animals.

>

> Jerry kay, Portsmouth, Va.

>

> On 11/22/12, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

>> RE: The term "shoofly" or "shoo-fly"

>>

>> On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 8:37 AM, <nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org> 

>> wrote:

>>

>>> first appeared in railroad jargon around 1905

>>

>>

>> The use of the term "shoofly" definitely predates 1905.  A few examples

>> follow:

>>

>> The January 4, 1879 edition of "Railway World" noted in regards to 

>> Madeira

>> and Mamore railroad (a line being built in South America) that,"Three 

>> miles

>> of and a shoo fly of five miles has already been laid."

>> http://books.google.com/books?id=ZIJRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA14

>>

>> Quoting from "The Economic Theory of The Location of Railways", first

>> published in 1887, "First, the exploration line or what is popularly 

>> called

>> a shoo fly line should be run as rapidly as possible over the entire 

>> route

>> which it is contemplated will ultimately constitute the road."

>> http://books.google.com/books?id=OcpAAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA860

>>

>> Page #110 of the "Proceedings of the First Annual Meeting of the American

>> International Association of Railway Superintendents of Bridges and

>> Buildings", held in St. Louis, MO, on September 25, 1891, makes three

>> references to the term "shoofly" in regards to making repairs to

>> embankments that have been badly side washed.

>> http://books.google.com/books?id=93ASAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA110

>>

>> C. Lloyd

>>

>

>

> ------------------------------

>

> Message: 5

> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2012 10:11:47 -0500 (EST)

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: Re: N&W/Southern thru passenger service

> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

> Message-ID: <8CF9B91D1E35C94-D18-196EE at webmail-m181.sysops.aol.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -----

>

>

> There was also a Southern/N&W train that ran until the early 1950's that 

> was

> primarily a mail train with a rider coach.

>

> Nos. 9 and 10 operated until the late 50's between Bristol and Lynchburg. 

> Primarily a mail and

> express train, it was usually assigned a Class J.  Consist was usually 5 

> or 6 head-end

> cars and a rider coach.  Scholars at the girls schools in Bristol used it 

> on holidays to connect

> at Roanoke with the New York and Norfolk trains.

>

> Nos. 9 and 10 weren't promoted as offering thru D. C. service via 

> Lynchburg, but Southern

> did have a no-name local which apparently was co-ordinated with the N&W 

> trains for the

> head end traffic.  Passengers probably made a train-to-train transfer at 

> Kemper Street.  So

> I've been told -- because Nos. 9 and 10 were intra-state only, N&W made 

> application for

> their discontinuance to the Commonwealth of Virginia citing lack of 

> passenger ridership.

> Head end traffic was then transferred to Nos. 45-46.          Harry Bundy

>

>

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