Rebooting Steam

[NW Mailing List]

John:
 
Thank you for your detailed reply.  I was going on memory in some  areas, 
so your clarifications are very welcome.
 
I certainly did not mean to impugn the objectives of your organization or  
the seriousness of your purposes, but at the same time I stand by my 
conclusions  that in the end the same engineering and economic principles that 
underlie  your objectives will prove insurmountable.  This is one of those "I 
hope  I'm wrong" situations, because dependence on fossil fuels is inherently  
unsustainable.  Approaches such as yours are to be encouraged, regardless  
of our pessimism.
 
We will follow your progress with interest, and promise to keep the  
discussion professional and constructive.
 
Dave Phelps
 
 
In a message dated 10/9/2012 7:02:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

N&WHS:

I have been a member of N&WHS for almost 10  years now and am known by 
several members.  As VP and Treasurer of  Sustainable Rail International/ 
Coalition for Sustainable Rail and a member of  this group I am available at 
_jrhodes at csrail.org_ (mailto:jrhodes at csrail.org)  if you have any  questions 
about what we are attempting or would like to get involved.  We  are an R&D 
organization and not an excursion or restoration group.   We have some of the 
best and brightest in the industry involved along with  several railroaders.

Dave Phelps:
I am glad you made it to the  ASME/IEEE presentation.  If I may speak to a 
few of your statements  below.  We didn't say we planned to make a steam 
locomotive with the same  Drawbar Thermal Efficiency as current diesels.  We 
said we planned to  make a steam locomotive with lower fuel cost than a 
current diesel in the same  service, this is quite different along with other 
objectives.  Yes, I do  understand microcreep and have for years.  I was caught 
off guard by the  question since I had not put much thought into its 
application in this  situation.  We are focusing on passenger rail only; passenger 
trains are  not heavy by any stretch of the imagination and I don't think 
microcreep would  be necessary but is worth investigation.  As to machinery 
speed, we are  planning to use the Class J's 525 rpm as a precedent, but also 
plan a lower  piston speed than the J as well.  The fuel, torrified biomass, 
could be  made from plant stalks but current implementations use wood.  We 
do not feel we have overlooked basic physical and  engineering fundamentals. 
 I would suggest  you investigate  Modern Steam, including Andre Chapelon 
of the SNCF and L.D. Porta of  Argentina.  As stated earlier I welcome emails 
to those with more  questions or who would like to get involved.

Best Regards,

--  
John Rhodes
Vice President & Treasurer
Coalition for Sustainable  Rail
2107 Wilson Blvd. Suite 750
Arlington, VA 22201
E _jrhodes at csrail.org_ (mailto:jrhodes at csrail.org) 
W _www.csrail.org_ (http://www.csrail.org/) 

On Mon, Oct 8, 2012 at 4:07 PM, NW Mailing List <_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_ 
(mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) > wrote:


I have read several articles about their proposal and listened to a  
presentation from them.  They plan to use the latest state of the art  boiler 
technology, emissions technology, and computerized dynamic analysis  to come up 
with a steam locomotive as efficient, fuel heating value to  drawbar 
horsepower, as a diesel, and able to have machinery speeds what  would make a J 
blush without destroying the rail.  They also plan to  use fuel pellets made 
from plant stalks that have zero NOx and particulates,  and negligible ash 
residue.
 
It all sounds wonderful to the uninitiated, and there's just enough  
substance that it's worth studying in detail, as an intellectual exercise in  
being open minded if nothing else.  However, their naive enthusiasm  overlooks 
some basic physical and engineering fundamentals and will  probably die a 
natural death once cold hard reality hits them in the  face.
 
They expect to obtain significant improvements in adhesion (coupled  axles 
and microprocessor controls); when I asked them if they were going to  take 
advantage of microcreep, their hand-waving answer demonstrated that  they 
had not the vaguest idea what I was talking about.  I assure you  an EMD or GE 
presenter would have been able to go on at great length on that  subject.
 
Until reality does overtake them, I recommend that we do present an  open 
mind and ask the tough questions to see how they answer them. 
 
Dave  Phelps






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