Questions about N&W's ORDER 19 in Operating Rules during 1920s, etc.
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Mon May 9 22:22:41 EDT 2011
Thanks, once more, Gordon. This is just the kind of info I was looking
for ~ Don
In a message dated 5/9/2011 12:57:38 Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
Don,
I am attaching a scan of the index to the Nov. 18, 1951 rule book that I
cited previously so you can compare it to yours. Your later edition may not
have the train order info.
The rules governing the two types of train orders are found in, "Movement
of Trains by Train Orders," p. 69 in the 1951 rule book.
I am also attaching scans of the two types of train order forms from the
1951 rule book.
Gordon
----- Original Message -----
From: _NW Mailing List_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
To: _nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2011 4:54 PM
Subject: Re: Questions about N&W's ORDER 19 in Operating Rules during
1920s,etc.
Gordon ~
Is the N&W Rule Book you refer to the same thing (just an earlier
version) as my pocketbook size N&W Operating Rules book?
Mine has a section, entitled, "FORMS OF TRAIN ORDERS," beginning on
page 50. Part A is entitled, "Fixed Meeting Points" and has nothing
numbered "19" or "31" listed anywhere.
The next section, starting on page 65, is entitled "Rules Governing
the Movement of Trains and Engines in the Same Direction by Block Signals."
Each paragraph in this section is numbered, starting with 251.
I'd sure like to read the exact wording of Form 19 as mentioned in the
ICC accident report.
~ Don
In a message dated 5/6/2011 19:24:06 Eastern Daylight Time,
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
Don,
I'll venture some info that others can correct or expand.
In regards to your Question 1, the N&W Rule Book effective Nov. 18, 1951
(that I happen to have in front of me), includes instructions on both "19"
and "31" orders. The basic difference is that engineer and conductor must
sign for a 31 order, meaning that the train must stop to pick up the order.
The crew does not have to sign for a 19 order, meaning that the train
does not normally have to stop (an exception to not stopping would be when a
19 order is issued restricting the superiority of a train, etc.).
In the collision at Rural Retreat, eastbound First Class train No. 14 was
superior by direction to westbound First Class train No. 37 and should have
held the main line at Rural Retreat in the absence of any instructions to
the contrary from the dispatcher. If the dispatcher had intended No. 14 to
take the siding at Rural Retreat he would have so stated in the order, as
he did for No. 14 at to meet an inferior-by-direction First Class train at
Crockett (No. 41). Apparently the rear end of No. 37 fouling the main
line at Rural Retreat caused signal B-3502 to show a stop aspect, and the
engineer of No. 14 erroneously thought that No. 37 was occupying the main line
at Rural Retreat and that he should take the siding.
Gordon Hamilton
----- Original Message -----
From: _NW Mailing List_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
To: _nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org)
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2011 3:38 PM
Subject: Questions about N&W's ORDER 19 in Operating Rules during 1920s,
etc.
For the purpose of framing my questions, the following language has been
excerpted from an ICC report, dated November 6, 1920. The entire report can
be read at:
_http://ntl1.specialcollection.net/scripts/ws.dll?websearch&site=dot_railroa
ds_
(http://ntl1.specialcollection.net/scripts/ws.dll?websearch&site=dot_railroads)
IN RE INVESTIGATION OF AN ACCIDENT WHICH OCCURRED
ON THE NORFOLK & WESTER RAILWAY, NEAR RURAL RE-
TREAT, VA., ON OCTOBER 20, 1920.
Westbound local passenger train No. 37, enroute from Roanoke. Va. To
Bristol, Tenn… received 19 train order No. 56 reading:
"No, 14, engine 102, meet No. 37, engine 558 at Rural Retreat
and No. 41, engine 107 at Crockett, No. 14 take
siding at Crockett."
[Arriving at Rural Retreat at 8:40 a, m.], the east switch of the passing
siding having been opened, the train pulled in, stopping before the entire
train was clear to unload passengers and express. After it had completed
its work the train departed and had proceeded a distance of about 2000 feet
when, while running at a speed estimated to have been from 10 to 12 miles
per hour, it collided with train No. 14, also on the passing siding.
Eastbound train No. 14, enroute from Bristol, Tenn., to Roanoke,
Va...received a copy of 19 train order 56…Approaching the west switch of the passing
siding at Rural Retreat, automatic signal B-3502, located about 50 feet
west of the west switch, was found in the stop position. This indicated
that the main track was occupied between that point and the station. The
train was brought to a stop and then proceeded, stopping again just clear of
the switch. The switch was opened and the train took the siding [at about
8:40 a.m.). It had proceeded about 1600 feet and, while running at a speed
estimated to have been between 18 and 20 miles per hour, it collided with
train No. 37 at about 8:43 a.m.
QUESTION 1. I have a copy of an N&W Operating Rules handbook issued to
employees January 1, 1967. Am I right to assume that what appears to be a
commonly used "19 train order" in 1920 must was defined somewhere else, or no
longer in effect in 1967?.
QUESTION 2. Can someone provide me with the actual language of 19 train
order as it would have read in 1920 and explain how and when it was
routinely applied?
QUESTION 3. Would the tail end of No. 37 being still out on the main track
,east of the east switch, have caused signal B-3502 to automatically go
into the STOP position?
QUESTION 4. Can someone let me know how to pull up a copy of Tom Dressler’
s article on this head-on collision that was published in the Arrow –
perhaps the Jan/Feb 1996 issue? I already have an excellent photo and would
like to read the text of his report.
Don Jackson
_NWinNscale at aol.com_ (mailto:NWinNscale at aol.com)
(540) 972-3138
____________________________________
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
____________________________________
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - _www.avg.com_ (http://www.avg.com/)
Version: 10.0.1321 / Virus Database: 1500/3620 - Release Date: 05/06/11
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
____________________________________
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
____________________________________
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - _www.avg.com_ (http://www.avg.com/)
Version: 10.0.1321 / Virus Database: 1500/3626 - Release Date: 05/09/11
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20110509/07cae4e6/attachment.htm>
More information about the NW-Mailing-List
mailing list