Doubleheaded K2s?

NW Mailing List nw-mailing-list at
Mon Feb 28 16:22:08 EST 2011

Rick: There is some photographic evidence of double-headers coming out of Cincinnati on eastbounds; K-2’s with K-2’s or J’s or an A. Given the light consists behind, it would seem to be power balance moves. Greg Scholl’s N&W Steam Freights DVD has a K-2 and an A just east of Sardinia on an eastbound. Note that the locomotive cycles shown in N&W Giants of Steam and Prince’s N&W Pocahontas coal carriers indicate that a locomotive would cycle through Cincinnati as protection power, meaning it sat there for a day after arrival before being allocated to a passenger train. As a consequence, a locomotive could be ‘grabbed’ for use east. I cannot say if A’s were often used in an out of Cincinnati Union Terminal on passenger train- I’d have to guesstimate that it was rare. However, Class A’s were very common road power on the time freights in and out of Clare Yard in Cincinnati- pretty much the standard power for those in the 40’s and 50’s.

Note that no N&W passenger engine was serviced at Clare as ‘regular operations’; N&W passenger engines were either serviced by Cincinnati Union Terminal after March of 1933; the PRR at their Pendleton Shops before that when the N&W trains went into the Panhandle depot or at Idlewild on the PRR/Cincinnati Lebanon & Northern pre 1924. Red-Bird GP-9’s didn’t go into Clare either for servicing. Also note that any J or K-2 working off its life in 1958-59 on local freights didn’t go on the Peavine as freight steam was gone in the summer of 1956.

Gary Rolih


From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2011 9:07 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at
Subject: Doubleheaded K2s?



Does anyone remember doubleheaded K2s on passenger consists operating between Portsmouth and Williamson in the late '40s and early '50s? I believe I saw some but I was pretty young at the time and I don't trust my recollection.


Rick Eads

Garland, TX

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Date: 2/27/2011 6:42:31 AM

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: N&W in 1911--Engineers take a ride (NW Mailing List)

2. Re: Trash containers (NW Mailing List)

3. Duplication of railway and RMS documents during the 1890s

(NW Mailing List)

4. N&W in 1911--Hauls automobiles (NW Mailing List)

5. RE: "Takin' Twenty" with the Virginian Brethren by Skip

Salmon (NW Mailing List)


Message: 1

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 13:32:16 EST

From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at>

Subject: Re: N&W in 1911--Engineers take a ride

To: nw-mailing-list at

Message-ID: <984fb.32742663.3a9aa130 at>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

That must have been some special car... 75 engineers and their wives if

they were all married would require 150 seats!


Richard D. Shell

In a message dated 2/26/2011 11:55:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

nw-mailing-list at writes:

Bluefield Daily Telegraph

July 6, 1911



Number of Local Engineers and Wives Anticipate Enjoyable Ride

It is expected that seventy-five engineers and their wives will leave

this morning on train No. 5 for St. Paul, Va., on a special car. From that

point they will go to Spartanburg, S. C., where they will spend two or

three days as the guests of the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and

officials of the Carolina, Clinchfield and Ohio. A special train tendered by the

Carolina, Clinchfield and Ohio will meet the party at St. Paul and take

them over the new road. The picnic and trip is given in return for the

kindnesses shown by the local division of the Brotherhood of Locomotive

Engineers to the lodge established on the Carolina, Clinchfield and Ohio. At

Spartanburg a picnic and other forms of amusement will be provided and all those

who are planning the trip look forward to four days of fun.


[How did the N&W keep running with this many engineers gone for four days?]

Gordon Hamilton


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Message: 2

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 21:47:22 -0500

From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at>

Subject: Re: Trash containers

To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at>

Message-ID: <EA4782DD73DE45A79DB58094F36F5837 at Jimmy>

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The trash containers are going to Atlantic in Waverly, Va.

Jimmy Lisle

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Message: 3

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 22:31:01 -0800 (PST)

From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at>

Subject: Duplication of railway and RMS documents during the 1890s

To: undisclosed recipients: ;

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Has anyone encountered "copying books?" These were bound ledgers of thin, plain, yellow or white tissue paper. The paper had the consistency a thin, soft, smooth-textured paper towel and wasn't like onion-skin paper.? Printed forms, typewriter ribbons, and writing ink were available to facilitate duplication long before photocopying or carbon copies.

To make a copy of the correspondence, the completed sheet was dampened, laid within a copying book with a blank tissue page over the sheet, and then put into a book press to make an impression onto the tissue page.? I am not finding much information about this approach to making business copies.? Some railway and Railway Mail Service forms from about the 1890s-1910s were printed using this "copying ink."

I'd welcome references to when this method came into use and later was generally discontinued.? Some information may appear in printer's supply and stationery catalogs which might illustrate these items.? I've purchased a book press and will eventially put it into the records room at Boyce station, although I think this approach to copying station records was on the decline by 1913.

Thanks for any information,

Frank Scheer

f_scheer at


Message: 4

Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2011 17:37:42 -0500

From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at>

Subject: N&W in 1911--Hauls automobiles

To: "3N&W Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at>

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Bluefield Daily Telegraph

July 6, 1911



Twelve Passenger Auto

A twelve passenger automobile shipped from Racine, Wis., to Cleveland, Va., passed through here yesterday over the Norfolk and Western enroute to Cleveland. The big car was consigned to Rufus Smith and will be used on the macadam road between Cleveland and Lebanon to haul passengers between the railroad station and the county seat.


[Apparently someone spied the car in Bluefield, which means that it probably was shipped on an open flat car. Cleveland and Lebanon are in Russell County, and a trip of that day over the hilly terrain between the two towns could have been an adventure. Macadam roads were named for a Scotsman, John McAdam who pioneered a road with three layers of angular aggregate (broken stones) over a sloped subgrade--a big improvement over dirt roads or those surfaced with round rocks. Later when a bitumen binder was added to a macadam road, it was termed "tar macadam," or "tarmac" for short.]

Gordon Hamilton

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Message: 5

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2011 7:37:35 -0500

From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at>

Subject: RE: "Takin' Twenty" with the Virginian Brethren by Skip


To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at>

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We meet every Wednesday evening about 5 PM at the Country Cookin' Restaurant 5325 Brambleton Ave (US 221) Roanoke, VA 24018. We would love your you to come "Take Twenty" with us.


---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at> wrote:


On Behalf Of NW Mailing List

Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2011 8:21 AM

To: NW Mailing List

Subject: "Takin' Twenty" with the Virginian Brethren by Skip Salmon


Last night I had the pleasure of "Takin' Twenty" with ten of the Brethren and Friends of the Virginian Railway. We signed a Happy Birthday Card for Bill Turner, VGN brakeman and conductor. Bill started on the N&W October, 1950, and after the Korean Conflict was over, signed on with the VGN in August, 1957. He retired from NS, December, 1991, and will turn 79 tomorrow.

I passed around a flyer for the Roanoke Chapter NRHS Spring Excursion trip from Roanoke by bus to Lynchburg, and Amtrak to Washington DC for a five-hour layover, and return, on April 20, 2011. Their web site has all the details of this trip. Speaking of the Roanoke Chapter NRHS, at our annual dinner meeting last week, those who did not get a 2011 NS Calendar at the January meeting were given one. There was one left, so I brought it to our meeting last night and had a raffle and the winner was Ken McLain. At that meeting, Jeff Sanders remembered those who took the west bound last year, and mentioned VGN Trainmaster Rufus Wingfield. Also passed last night was a poem given to me by the VGN Station Renovation Architect, Barry Rakes. It was given to him by Mrs. R. W. Smiley, widow of an engineer known by Wis Sowder and several of the Brethren. The poem contained the following verse: "Also that amazing tale when old Captain Barger left Oakvale, on board two experts at many games, n

one other than Frank and Jesse James".

The Jewel from the Past is from February 10, 2005: "I showed the Brethren the email from Doug Harris of Auckland, New Zealand who saw Russell Inge's photo that I posted and said 'Please tell Slick his fame has reached New Zealand'. Of course this got a lot of 'hoots and hollars' and jokes about unusual animals that live in New Zealand and how Slick would fit right in there". Note: After the recent earthquake in New Zealand, I emailed our good friend Doug Harris and asked if he was OK. I got a response last night: "I'm way out of the quake area, but know some modelers in Christchurch. It's about 2 hours flying time south of here...about 20 people were killed in the Cathedral which has collapsed, and the current death toll is put at 75 with around 300 missing".

Passed around was the latest issue of "Classic Trains" with several stories about the N&W. Also passed was a photo I took last Saturday of an eastbound coal train on the old VGN. Highlighted in the photo was milepost V251, just west of the Salem Connection and the old VGN Station location. Another photo passed was of the new replica of the passenger shelter that sat at Nutbush, now an exhibit at Greg Elam's Victoria Rail Park. Greg had the nearby Lunenburg Correctional Center manufacture and donate this fine example of VGN "shelterdum"...

For "Show and Tell" I brought my friend John McDaniel's EL-2b Maintenance Manual. This inch thick VGN manual gives instructions as well as photos on how to maintain the streamliners. Items of interest include: "1. Every 120,000 miles, the EL-2b windshield wipers were to be removed, cleaned and oiled with automobile machine oil; 2. Before every trip, the pantograph collector wear shoes were to be lubed with graphite grease (Dixon 1924 or equivalent) and 3. The Controller Drum segments, after every 30,000 miles were to be cleaned and lubricated with Vaseline".

>From last week, Daniel Winter III corrected me with the peanut plant at Suffolk being Birdsong (not Bird Song). Dave Phelps, who is retired from the GE plant in Erie PA corrected my reference to the old diesel switcher VGN #6 as being an "Alco-GE". It was 100% "just GE". I got my information from the Harold A. Reid book. (Harold A. made any miscues in the book; H. made none). Landon Gregory and Raymond East, who worked with the peanut trains and plants in Suffolk, said that yes, every fall there was a run on good clean box cars for the plants. Landon said that he had orders to not let any box cars with lime in them "any where near Planters".

The ebay report this time includes the following VGN items sold: Early 1900 Tidewater RY documents sold for $360.69; Slide of VGN Trainmaster and 4-6-2 meet for $47.79; "V. Ry" Adlake #185 lantern for $489.07; 23 Blackhawk Color Slides for $24.99; EL-C Operating Manual for $92.99; Operating Manual for F-M Trainmaster for $74.99 and a layout of Elmore Yard for $26.00.

Finally, Richard Shell wrote me when he recognized Benny F. Sammons in the two Landon Gregory story. He recalled an incident with him and Benny that involved brokering goats, Fred and Willie, and hauling them in the back of a Firebird. Seems that the goats got away and were lured back with Corn Pops. He got them home only to have them escape the day before hunting season opened in Botetourt County. Richard lives not far from Lithia, VA, on the N&W. A fellow told me once that in that part of the county, in the dog days of summer, mosquitos get so big that "they have their own ticks".

Time to pull the pin on this one!

Departing Now from V248,

Skip Salmon





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