From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Jan 25 00:25:13 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 00:25:13 -0500
Subject: Abingdon Branch Bira, NC
In-Reply-To: <4B5CCF9B.5040902@vt.edu>
References: <4B5CCF9B.5040902@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <45431C28EE3D429FACE0A1E5B60F6750@601ek604PC>

There isn't one.

It's Bina.

EdKing

--------------------------------------------------
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 5:54 PM
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Abingdon Branch Bira, NC

> Following URL is for a image of M #429 at Bira, NC on the Abingdon branch. 
> Couldn't find Bira on google, or google maps. Where is Bira NC???
>
> http://nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=5344
>
> - Roger Link
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> 


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Jan 25 01:39:35 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 01:39:35 -0500
Subject: Abingdon Branch Bira, NC
In-Reply-To: <4B5CCF9B.5040902@vt.edu>
References: <4B5CCF9B.5040902@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <35339A4DFEEF4900A57437B861CDFE0D@601ek604PC>

It's interesting that the URL and the writeup on the image all call it Bina.

EdKing

--------------------------------------------------
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 5:54 PM
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Abingdon Branch Bira, NC

> Following URL is for a image of M #429 at Bira, NC on the Abingdon branch. 
> Couldn't find Bira on google, or google maps. Where is Bira NC???
>
> http://nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=5344
>
> - Roger Link
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> 


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Jan 25 06:21:15 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 11:21:15 +0000
Subject: Seen in Roanoke
In-Reply-To: <mailman.25.1264371778.71235.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
References: <mailman.25.1264371778.71235.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <BAY143-W35665529236BCE85A3EC2D15F0@phx.gbl>


RTEX is Rail Trusts Equipment Inc


RTEX 4994 is a catch... it's the first production GP38.  Built as DT&I 200, became GTW 6200, then GTW 4994, then CN 4994, now RTEX 4994.


RTEX 97 is a SW1200, built as PRR 6913, to Lancanster & Chester 97, now RTEX 97


RTEX 4005 is a CN rebuilt GP9RM, formerly a GMDD built GP9 for CN nubered 4295, renumbered to CN 4103.  Sold to Athabasca Northern Railways and renumbered 4005, sold to RTEX after CN acquired the ANY

    

 		 	   		  
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Jan 25 06:56:06 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 06:56:06 -0500
Subject: As seen in Roanoke
Message-ID: <4B5D86D6.4090002@vt.edu>

Jimmy,

I Googled RTEX Locomotive Services.  They are an equipment rebuilder 
located in Social Circle, GA. A link to www.rrpicturesarchives.net has 
photo album showing the 4005 and the 97 before repainting and a story about 
the Great Walton Covington Branch RR.

I hope this helps.

David Lugar

>     Can anyone tell me the disposition of these "named" units? Also seen was a COHX GP9.
>     Jimmy Lisle



From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Jan 25 08:10:25 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 08:10:25 -0500
Subject: Abingdon Branch Bira, NC
In-Reply-To: <4B5CCF9B.5040902@vt.edu>
References: <4B5CCF9B.5040902@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <BFCBABFCACC5429AB4CA342DDC80AB32@ashememorial.org>

Roger:  I think the town is Bina, which is between Lansing and Warrensville
on SR194 in Ashe County.  If you Google Bina NC, you'll get a pretty good
location map.

R.D. Williams

-----Original Message-----
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 5:54 PM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Abingdon Branch Bira, NC

Following URL is for a image of M #429 at Bira, NC on the Abingdon branch. 
Couldn't find Bira on google, or google maps. Where is Bira NC???

http://nwhs.org/archivesdb/detail.php?ID=5344

- Roger Link
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/



From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Jan 25 07:48:26 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 07:48:26 -0500
Subject: N&W menus
References: <773956.95528.qm@web30106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BD0A0F342B94412DBCA5E4B8193C1315@DESKTOP>

Frank,
I think the menu covers were photos of actual places along the N&W.  I have 
a "Shenandoah Valley Route" menu from the early '50's which has a photo of 
the Radford College (University now) campus.

I don't know if these were shot in color or were tinted b&w's.

--Rick Morrison

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "N&W Historical Society" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 3:41 PM
Subject: N&W menus


> Hello, all:
>
> Were scenes on N&W menus such as the one at eBay 120522232424 of real 
> locations, or were these stylized artist renditions?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120522232424&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123
>
> Thanks for the advice,
>
> Frank Scheer
> f_scheer at yahoo.com
> ________________________________________

> 


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Jan 25 12:13:44 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:13:44 -0500
Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 52, Issue 34
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1264438809.33077.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
References: <mailman.3.1264438809.33077.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <19412D1D-0CE4-4483-A1CD-7047427EF707@oscalemag.com>

Gentlemen,
Regarding the photo at "Bira", I notice the M has sheet metal  
attached across the bottom of the pilot. Does anyone know why this  
was done? Is it a makeshift snowplow? Any info would be appreciated.
Thanks
Joe Giannovario
O Scale Trains Magazine

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Jan 25 15:34:48 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:34:48 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
Message-ID: <67E147ACC51D4317B49709368D7F7318@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
August 13, 1910

BLUEFIELD IS LOSING ONE OF ITS LANDMARKS
------
Terminal Trainmaster Relates History of Old Division Office Now Being Torn Down
    Bluefield is losing one of its oldest landmarks, the old division office, which is being torn down.  A nice lawn will take its place.  The building has been standing since July, 1888, and is almost a part of the town.  Within its walls the preliminary plans of the great Pocahontas Division were carried out and each room has such a history connected with it that old railroad men stand and watch it coming apart without even daring to walk inside of it, so great is their respect for the old site of their former battles to make the road a success.
    J. M. MeIlhaney, terminal trainmaster, gave the Daily Telegraph a short history of the building last night.  He easily remembers it from the days when this most wealthy division of the Norfolk and Western was only the Pocahontas branch.
    Mr. McIlhaney says the first offices were maintained in the present freight depot.  This was in July, 1888.  About this time twenty-two years ago the offices were moved in the building that is now being torn down.  The division at that time was called the Radford and Pocahontas division and John A. Hardy was superintendent.  The road at that time went to Powhatan, while branches ran to Pocahontas, Goodwill and Simmons.  The Clinch Valley division was not in operation at that time.
    The official family at that time was John A. Hardy, superintendent, Captain D. H. Barger, trainmaster, R. E. Winters, chief dispatcher.
    The yard office was located in the northwest room on the first floor while the trainmaster's office was overhead on the second floor.  The dispatcher's office was in the north bay station.  The waiting room for trainmen was on the first floor in the northeast room, while the timekeeper occupied the room above.
    The supervisor, or roadmaster, as he is known occupied the southwest room on the second floor while the reading room for trainmen, out of which grew the Railroad Y. M. C. A., which now has a large building of its own, recently erected on Pulaski street, occupied the southeast room in the old building now being torn down.  The yard master, who was either a man named Wright or Joe Collins, occupied the other room on the south side.  The attic at that time was used as a bed room by the trainmaster and other men, the dispatchers many times turning in to sleep there at that time, which was long before the present regulations as to hours of work went into effect.
    It was hard at that time to get a house in this city and the first house completed by the railroad was the building on Princeton avenue, recently owned by Weslie Wilkes, which was first occupied by J. M. McIlhaney, who was at that time a train dispatcher.
    Since July, 1888, many changes have taken place in the Norfolk and Western but the old building was occupied as an office until about a year ago when the offices were moved to the old Bluefield Inn building, which was remodeled for office purposes.  This building is one of the most imposing structures in the city and at one time Thomas F. Ryan wanted to purchase it as a home for consumptives.  The Norfolk and Western, however, would not consent to the bringing to this city of a home for consumptives.
    The destruction of the building removes another of this city's landmarks and for years to come the few men who are left on the road who were here in 1888 will look to where the building now is and feel that something is lacking.
[I wonder if the wooden building in the attached picture from Neg. 21413 in the Virginia Tech image database isn't the division office described in the article.  It has a bay on the north side as described for the location of the dispatcher's office.  Also, the article states that the building will be replaced by a "nice lawn," and vintage photos show a lawn east of the passenger depot where the parking lot was in later years and about where the building in question is in this picture.]
------
Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Jan 25 15:39:00 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:39:00 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
Message-ID: <7EA1E556E6DB4A748E04927045FF6435@DellVostro>

The previous message on this subject should have had the familiar disclaimer that some of the names of people were indistinct on the microfilm and that the best interpretations are shown.

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Jan 25 21:48:20 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:48:20 -0500
Subject: Another one bites the light
Message-ID: <25EC385AB8604E0E90414A8420ABE616@silver>

Anybody making last chance photos at Coopers and the other tunnels being daylighted?  See attached article from BD Telegraph below:
Jim Cochran


Light at the end of the tunnel:

By Bill Archer
Bluefield Daily Telegraph

COOPERS - When the workers laboring to raise the roof of the old Cooper Tunnel on the Norfolk Southern mainline in Mercer County see daylight, it's about time to call it a day.

NS is on the home stretch of the Heartland Corridor project that started in the fall of 2007 and is on track to be finished later this summer. When it's done, the Heartland Corridor will enable NS to move double-stacked freight cars from Lambert's Point (near Hampton Roads, Va.) on the Atlantic coast all the way to Chicago on the Lake Michigan shore.

"When people ask, I tell them we're clear in Virginia as far as Belcher Bridge in Bluefield," James N. Carter Jr., PE, chief engineer/bridges and structures with NS said. "When they ask me when it will be done, I tell them August."

Carter, 57, is an old-school railroader who was born in Piedmont, near Mullens when his father, a Virginian Railway locomotive engineer, was serving in the Korean War with the U.S. Army. After the Virginian merged with the Norfolk & Western Railway in 1959, the family moved from Mullens to Bluefield, where the senior Mr. Carter worked with the N&W. The family picked out a home on the Virginia side so young Jim could pursue his lifelong dream of attending Virginia Tech. "As an in-state student," Carter said.

Each structure - tunnel, low bridge or narrow cut - along the 1,200 mile-plus long Heartland Corridor has its own set of challenges. Before crews with LRL Construction of Tillamook, Ore., started work, Carter had to hammer out the details of the project with his brother NS railroaders. Both mainline tracks needed to be shut down for a while, but with as many as 18 trains moving through Bluefield over a 12-hour period, Gary Shepard, superintendent of NS's Pocahontas Division headquartered in Bluefield would have his hands full.

"The hardest thing about doing a job like this is having to run trains every day on one of the busiest sections in the NS system," Carter said. "I worked at the coal load-out in Lambert's Point for 15 years, so I know how important it is. I wanted as much uninterrupted time as possible to work on the structures, so the transportation planning people worked with people on the coal traffic side and we figured it out.

"Gary asked me: 'Does it make any difference if you work in the day or night?' I told him it's always dark in the tunnel, so it didn't matter," Carter said. "They close the track down from 2 a.m., until noon every day. We get a section done, clean everything up and get back to it when we go in the next day." Since coal traffic is traditionally heavier late in the week, the Cooper Tunnel crew works Saturday through Wednesday.

Initial construction of the Cooper Tunnel was a significant moment in the history of the N&W Railway's development of the McDowell County coalfields. Keystones at both ends of the tunnel bear a 1902 date, but the start of the tunnel triggered the development of the vast metallurgical coalfields in McDowell County. Pioneer coal baron Jenkin Jones was in the first wave of McDowell County coal developers, but Samuel A. Crozer, John J. Lincoln, L.E. Tierney and others soon ignited the McDowell County coal boom of the early 20th Century.

The crews who built the Cooper Tunnel in the late 19th and early 20th centuries built it to last. The 680-foot long tunnel has a huge void above the roof that appears on maps to extend more than two-thirds the length of the structure. The void is listed at as much as 18 feet on some of the maps, but Bill Hawk, an inspector with Jacobs Associates laughed and hinted that the charts may not be entirely accurate.

The roof of the old tunnel was lined courses of bricks set in mortar, topped with another 4-foot layer of concrete. "Some huge rocks fell on the top in that void over the years, but didn't come through," Carter said.

"They originally had wood stacked up in there," Jared Beeler, superintendent on the tunnel job for LRL said.

"One place up in there, we found lead buckets that they used to carry grout up there," Mike Downs of LRL said. "They built this back when men were men." The LRL crews donated the lead grout buckets and some other artifacts to Bramwell Mayor Louise Stoker to display at the Bramwell Depot.

Carter said crews are replacing the arched brick roof with curved steel I-beams, topping them with 48-inches of concrete and moving the top up from its former 19'6" to a new height of 20'3". After everything is in place, workers will top the steel interior of the roof with shot-crete.

In addition to the Cooper Tunnel, crews are also working on the Big Sandy 1, 2, and 3 tunnels. When the project is completed, crews will have completed expansion of five miles in total length of 28 tunnels. Crews lowered the track in five of the tunnels, but all the rest involved raising the roof.

Safety is a priority on the job site. So far, one contractor died as a result of injuries received on the project. Larry Dale Hunt, 28, of McDowell County died Oct. 22, 2009, while excavating broken concrete at Tunnel #3 near Gray Eagle. NS Spokesman Robin Chapman said that approximately 160 ton of materials fell on the excavator Hunt was operating. Hunt was working for Johnson Western Gunite.

When the project is finished, it will cut the mileage double-stacked trains travel from Hampton Roads to Chicago by about 1,000 miles.

 
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 07:23:12 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 07:23:12 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
In-Reply-To: <67E147ACC51D4317B49709368D7F7318@DellVostro>
References: <67E147ACC51D4317B49709368D7F7318@DellVostro>
Message-ID: <COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>


Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?

 

Thanks,

Dave Willis

(blt 1962, c/n 4)
 


To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:34:48 -0500
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org




Bluefield Daily Telegraph
August 13, 1910
 
BLUEFIELD IS LOSING ONE OF ITS LANDMARKS
------
Terminal Trainmaster Relates History of Old Division Office Now Being Torn Down
    Bluefield is losing one of its oldest landmarks, the old division office, which is being torn down.  A nice lawn will take its place.  The building has been standing since July, 1888, and is almost a part of the town.  Within its walls the preliminary plans of the great Pocahontas Division were carried out and each room has such a history connected with it that old railroad men stand and watch it coming apart without even daring to walk inside of it, so great is their respect for the old site of their former battles to make the road a success.
    J. M. MeIlhaney, terminal trainmaster, gave the Daily Telegraph a short history of the building last night.  He easily remembers it from the days when this most wealthy division of the Norfolk and Western was only the Pocahontas branch.
    Mr. McIlhaney says the first offices were maintained in the present freight depot.  This was in July, 1888.  About this time twenty-two years ago the offices were moved in the building that is now being torn down.  The division at that time was called the Radford and Pocahontas division and John A. Hardy was superintendent.  The road at that time went to Powhatan, while branches ran to Pocahontas, Goodwill and Simmons.  The Clinch Valley division was not in operation at that time.
    The official family at that time was John A. Hardy, superintendent, Captain D. H. Barger, trainmaster, R. E. Winters, chief dispatcher.
    The yard office was located in the northwest room on the first floor while the trainmaster's office was overhead on the second floor.  The dispatcher's office was in the north bay station.  The waiting room for trainmen was on the first floor in the northeast room, while the timekeeper occupied the room above.
    The supervisor, or roadmaster, as he is known occupied the southwest room on the second floor while the reading room for trainmen, out of which grew the Railroad Y. M. C. A., which now has a large building of its own, recently erected on Pulaski street, occupied the southeast room in the old building now being torn down.  The yard master, who was either a man named Wright or Joe Collins, occupied the other room on the south side.  The attic at that time was used as a bed room by the trainmaster and other men, the dispatchers many times turning in to sleep there at that time, which was long before the present regulations as to hours of work went into effect.
    It was hard at that time to get a house in this city and the first house completed by the railroad was the building on Princeton avenue, recently owned by Weslie Wilkes, which was first occupied by J. M. McIlhaney, who was at that time a train dispatcher.
    Since July, 1888, many changes have taken place in the Norfolk and Western but the old building was occupied as an office until about a year ago when the offices were moved to the old Bluefield Inn building, which was remodeled for office purposes.  This building is one of the most imposing structures in the city and at one time Thomas F. Ryan wanted to purchase it as a home for consumptives.  The Norfolk and Western, however, would not consent to the bringing to this city of a home for consumptives.
    The destruction of the building removes another of this city's landmarks and for years to come the few men who are left on the road who were here in 1888 will look to where the building now is and feel that something is lacking.
[I wonder if the wooden building in the attached picture from Neg. 21413 in the Virginia Tech image database isn't the division office described in the article.  It has a bay on the north side as described for the location of the dispatcher's office.  Also, the article states that the building will be replaced by a "nice lawn," and vintage photos show a lawn east of the passenger depot where the parking lot was in later years and about where the building in question is in this picture.]
------
Gordon Hamilton 		 	   		  
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 08:22:15 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:22:15 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
In-Reply-To: <COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
References: <67E147ACC51D4317B49709368D7F7318@DellVostro>
	<COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B5EEC87.5020903@btsrr.com>

NW Mailing List wrote:

> Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?
>  


Consumption was the old name for tuberculosis.  Isolation was the rule 
where 'homes' were set up.... sort of like hospitals, but with one 
disease to handle.
 
Take care
Bill

-- 
==  Scale Model Railroad Products  == 
== Manufacturer - Retailer - Importer ==
  
Bill & Diane Wade       
  
B.T.S.                    
RR 1  Box 141A
Belington, WV  26250    
  
Phone: 304-823-3729
FAX: 304-823-2901   
http://www.btsrr.com
  
We wish you Fair Winds and Following Seas.

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 08:33:32 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:33:32 EST
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
Message-ID: <3a82.14ced852.3890492c@aol.com>

That's a euphuism for tuberculosis sanatorium, I believe.
 
Dave Phelps
 
 
In a message dated 1/26/2010 8:16:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

Anyone  know what a "home for consumptives" is?

Thanks,
Dave  Willis
(blt 1962, c/n 4)

 
____________________________________
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office  building
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:34:48 -0500
From:  nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
August 13,  1910
 
BLUEFIELD IS LOSING ONE OF ITS  LANDMARKS
------
Terminal Trainmaster Relates History of Old Division  Office Now Being Torn 
Down
    Bluefield is losing one of its oldest  landmarks, the old division 
office, which is being torn down.  A nice  lawn will take its place.  The 
building has been standing since July,  1888, and is almost a part of the town.  
Within its walls the preliminary  plans of the great Pocahontas Division were 
carried out and each room has such  a history connected with it that old 
railroad men stand and watch it coming  apart without even daring to walk 
inside of it, so great is their respect for  the old site of their former 
battles to make the road a success.
    J. M. MeIlhaney, terminal trainmaster, gave  the Daily Telegraph a 
short history of the building last night.  He  easily remembers it from the days 
when this most wealthy division of the  Norfolk and Western was only the 
Pocahontas branch.
    Mr. McIlhaney says the first offices were  maintained in the present 
freight depot.  This was in July, 1888.   About this time twenty-two years ago 
the offices were moved in the building  that is now being torn down.  The 
division at that time was called the  Radford and Pocahontas division and 
John A. Hardy was superintendent.   The road at that time went to Powhatan, 
while branches ran to Pocahontas,  Goodwill and Simmons.  The Clinch Valley 
division was not in operation at  that time.
    The official family at that time was John  A. Hardy, superintendent, 
Captain D. H. Barger, trainmaster, R. E. Winters,  chief dispatcher.
    The yard office was located in the  northwest room on the first floor 
while the trainmaster's office was overhead  on the second floor.  The 
dispatcher's office was in the north bay  station.  The waiting room for trainmen 
was on the first floor in the  northeast room, while the timekeeper occupied 
the room above.
    The supervisor, or roadmaster, as he is  known occupied the southwest 
room on the second floor while the reading room  for trainmen, out of which 
grew the Railroad Y. M. C. A., which now has a  large building of its own, 
recently erected on Pulaski street, occupied the  southeast room in the old 
building now being torn down.  The yard master,  who was either a man named 
Wright or Joe Collins, occupied the other room on  the south side.  The attic 
at that time was used as a bed room by the  trainmaster and other men, the 
dispatchers many times turning in to sleep  there at that time, which was 
long before the present regulations as to hours  of work went into effect.
    It was hard at that time to get a house in  this city and the first 
house completed by the railroad was the building on  Princeton avenue, recently 
owned by Weslie Wilkes, which was first occupied by  J. M. McIlhaney, who 
was at that time a train dispatcher.
    Since July, 1888, many changes have taken  place in the Norfolk and 
Western but the old building was occupied as an  office until about a year ago 
when the offices were moved to the old Bluefield  Inn building, which was 
remodeled for office purposes.  This building is  one of the most imposing 
structures in the city and at one time Thomas F. Ryan  wanted to purchase it as 
a home for consumptives.  The Norfolk and  Western, however, would not 
consent to the bringing to this city of a home for  consumptives.
    The destruction of the building removes  another of this city's 
landmarks and for years to come the few men who are  left on the road who were here 
in 1888 will look to where the building now is  and feel that something is 
lacking.
[I wonder if the wooden building in the attached  picture from Neg. 21413 
in the Virginia Tech image database isn't the division  office described in 
the article.  It has a bay on the north side as  described for the location 
of the dispatcher's office.  Also, the  article states that the building will 
be replaced by a "nice lawn," and  vintage photos show a lawn east of the 
passenger depot where the  parking lot was in later years and about where the 
building in question is in  this picture.]
------
Gordon Hamilton

 
____________________________________
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 08:32:04 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:32:04 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
In-Reply-To: <COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
References: <67E147ACC51D4317B49709368D7F7318@DellVostro>
	<COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8CC6CA315546F20-5410-CE18@webmail-d069.sysops.aol.com>

A residential treatment facility for folks with tuberculosis. before 
antibiotics.

Jeff Cornelius


-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: Norfolk Western Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Tue, Jan 26, 2010 7:23 am
Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building


Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?
?
Thanks,
Dave Willis
(blt 1962, c/n 4)
?

------------------------------------------------------------
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:34:48 -0500
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org


Bluefield Daily Telegraph
August 13, 1910
?
BLUEFIELD IS LOSING ONE OF ITS LANDMARKS
------
Terminal Trainmaster Relates History of Old Division Office Now Being 
Torn Down
??? Bluefield is losing one of its oldest landmarks, the old division 
office, which is being torn down.? A nice lawn will take its place.? 
The building has been standing since July, 1888, and is almost a part 
of the town.? Within its walls the preliminary plans of the great 
Pocahontas Division were carried out and each room has such a history 
connected with it that old railroad men stand and watch it coming apart 
without even daring to walk inside of it, so great is their respect for 
the old site of their former battles to make the road a success.
??? J. M. MeIlhaney, terminal trainmaster, gave the Daily Telegraph a 
short history of the building last night.? He easily remembers it from 
the days when this most wealthy division of the Norfolk and Western was 
only the Pocahontas branch.
??? Mr. McIlhaney says the first offices were maintained in the present 
freight depot.? This was in July, 1888.? About this time twenty-two 
years ago the offices were moved in the building that is now being torn 
down.? The division at that time was called the Radford and Pocahontas 
division and John A. Hardy was superintendent.? The road at that time 
went to Powhatan, while branches ran to Pocahontas, Goodwill and 
Simmons.? The Clinch Valley division was not in operation at that time.
??? The official family at that time was John A. Hardy, superintendent, 
Captain D. H. Barger, trainmaster, R. E. Winters, chief dispatcher.
??? The yard office was located in the northwest room on the first 
floor while the trainmaster's office was overhead on the second floor.? 
The dispatcher's office was in the north bay station.? The waiting room 
for trainmen was on the first floor in the northeast room, while the 
timekeeper occupied the room above.
??? The supervisor, or roadmaster, as he is known occupied the 
southwest room on the second floor while the reading room for trainmen, 
out of which grew the Railroad Y. M. C. A., which now has a large 
building of its own, recently erected on Pulaski street, occupied the 
southeast room in the old building now being torn down.? The yard 
master, who was either a man named Wright or Joe Collins, occupied the 
other room on the south side.? The attic at that time was used as a bed 
room by the trainmaster and other men, the dispatchers many times 
turning in to sleep there at that time, which was long before the 
present regulations as to hours of work went into effect.
??? It was hard at that time to get a house in this city and the first 
house completed by the railroad was the building on Princeton avenue, 
recently owned by Weslie Wilkes, which was first occupied by J. M. 
McIlhaney, who was at that time a train dispatcher.
??? Since July, 1888, many changes have taken place in the Norfolk and 
Western but the old building was occupied as an office until about a 
year ago when the offices were moved to the old Bluefield Inn building, 
which was remodeled for office purposes.? This building is one of the 
most imposing structures in the city and at one time Thomas F. Ryan 
wanted to purchase it as a home for consumptives.? The Norfolk and 
Western, however, would not consent to the bringing to this city of a 
home for consumptives.
??? The destruction of the building removes another of this city's 
landmarks and for years to come the few men who are left on the road 
who were here in 1888 will look to where the building now is and feel 
that something is lacking.
[I?wonder if the wooden building in the attached picture from Neg. 
21413 in the Virginia Tech image database isn't the division office 
described in the article.? It has a bay on the north side as described 
for the location of the dispatcher's office.? Also,?the article states 
that the building will be replaced by a "nice lawn," and vintage photos 
show a lawn?east of the passenger depot?where the parking lot was in 
later years and about where the building in question is in this 
picture.]
------
Gordon Hamilton


------------------------------------------------------------
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________________________________________
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 08:43:20 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:43:20 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
In-Reply-To: <COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <74CE2225BEE64E87A88B1E914139188F@YOUR37E34C38B1>

 

 

  _____  

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:23 AM
To: Norfolk Western Mailing List
Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building

 

>>Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?<<

 

Consumption was the old name for tuberculosis, so consumptives were people
with that disease. Before antibiotics, tuberculosis was essentially a death
sentence. Mountain air was believed to ease the symptoms so TB sanitariums
were frequently located in mountainous areas.  

 

Rob doorack
 



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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 08:42:06 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:42:06 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
In-Reply-To: <COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
References: <67E147ACC51D4317B49709368D7F7318@DellVostro>
	<COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <868D8C93-900F-4F5D-87F9-C54AA3240FAD@rev.net>

"Consumption" was an old name for Tuburculosis, which seemed to  
"consume" its victims.

On another aspect of the story, It is kind of interesting to think of  
the sentimentality attached to a building that is all of 22 years  
old. Can any here imagine feeling nostalgia for a building built in  
1988?

Ken Miller

On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:23 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

> Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave Willis
> (blt 1962, c/n 4)
>
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:34:48 -0500
> From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
>
> Bluefield Daily Telegraph
> August 13, 1910
>
> BLUEFIELD IS LOSING ONE OF ITS LANDMARKS
> ------
> Terminal Trainmaster Relates History of Old Division Office Now  
> Being Torn Down
>     Bluefield is losing one of its oldest landmarks, the old  
> division office, which is being torn down.  A nice lawn will take  
> its place.  The building has been standing since July, 1888, and is  
> almost a part of the town.  Within its walls the preliminary plans  
> of the great Pocahontas Division were carried out and each room has  
> such a history connected with it that old railroad men stand and  
> watch it coming apart without even daring to walk inside of it, so  
> great is their respect for the old site of their former battles to  
> make the road a success.
>     J. M. MeIlhaney, terminal trainmaster, gave the Daily Telegraph  
> a short history of the building last night.  He easily remembers it  
> from the days when this most wealthy division of the Norfolk and  
> Western was only the Pocahontas branch.
>     Mr. McIlhaney says the first offices were maintained in the  
> present freight depot.  This was in July, 1888.  About this time  
> twenty-two years ago the offices were moved in the building that is  
> now being torn down.  The division at that time was called the  
> Radford and Pocahontas division and John A. Hardy was  
> superintendent.  The road at that time went to Powhatan, while  
> branches ran to Pocahontas, Goodwill and Simmons.  The Clinch  
> Valley division was not in operation at that time.
>     The official family at that time was John A. Hardy,  
> superintendent, Captain D. H. Barger, trainmaster, R. E. Winters,  
> chief dispatcher.
>     The yard office was located in the northwest room on the first  
> floor while the trainmaster's office was overhead on the second  
> floor.  The dispatcher's office was in the north bay station.  The  
> waiting room for trainmen was on the first floor in the northeast  
> room, while the timekeeper occupied the room above.
>     The supervisor, or roadmaster, as he is known occupied the  
> southwest room on the second floor while the reading room for  
> trainmen, out of which grew the Railroad Y. M. C. A., which now has  
> a large building of its own, recently erected on Pulaski street,  
> occupied the southeast room in the old building now being torn  
> down.  The yard master, who was either a man named Wright or Joe  
> Collins, occupied the other room on the south side.  The attic at  
> that time was used as a bed room by the trainmaster and other men,  
> the dispatchers many times turning in to sleep there at that time,  
> which was long before the present regulations as to hours of work  
> went into effect.
>     It was hard at that time to get a house in this city and the  
> first house completed by the railroad was the building on Princeton  
> avenue, recently owned by Weslie Wilkes, which was first occupied  
> by J. M. McIlhaney, who was at that time a train dispatcher.
>     Since July, 1888, many changes have taken place in the Norfolk  
> and Western but the old building was occupied as an office until  
> about a year ago when the offices were moved to the old Bluefield  
> Inn building, which was remodeled for office purposes.  This  
> building is one of the most imposing structures in the city and at  
> one time Thomas F. Ryan wanted to purchase it as a home for  
> consumptives.  The Norfolk and Western, however, would not consent  
> to the bringing to this city of a home for consumptives.
>     The destruction of the building removes another of this city's  
> landmarks and for years to come the few men who are left on the  
> road who were here in 1888 will look to where the building now is  
> and feel that something is lacking.
> [I wonder if the wooden building in the attached picture from Neg.  
> 21413 in the Virginia Tech image database isn't the division office  
> described in the article.  It has a bay on the north side as  
> described for the location of the dispatcher's office.  Also, the  
> article states that the building will be replaced by a "nice lawn,"  
> and vintage photos show a lawn east of the passenger depot where  
> the parking lot was in later years and about where the building in  
> question is in this picture.]
> ------
> Gordon Hamilton
>
> Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 08:42:09 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 08:42:09 -0500
Subject: Another one bites the light
In-Reply-To: <25EC385AB8604E0E90414A8420ABE616@silver>
References: <25EC385AB8604E0E90414A8420ABE616@silver>
Message-ID: <B8AFA982-7B4C-41A7-A277-13CB61142900@rev.net>

I think you are using the incorrect term, "daylighting" infers  
removal of the earth and fill, as well as the top of either the  
brick, or conctete to convert the tunnel to a cut. This was done to  
the former Shawsville tunnel back about 1990-91. The changes here at  
Cooper are essentially cutting out the roof a total of 9 inches by my  
reading.

Generally, there is not much to document (at least photographically)  
on this type of operation, as very little that one can see outside  
the tunnel is changed.

According to the article, five of the 28 tunnels involved lowering  
the track level, the rest were like Cooper, by raising the roof.

Ken Miller

On Jan 25, 2010, at 9:48 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

> Anybody making last chance photos at Coopers and the other tunnels  
> being daylighted?  See attached article from BD Telegraph below:
> Jim Cochran
>
>
> Light at the end of the tunnel:
> By Bill Archer
> Bluefield Daily Telegraph
> COOPERS ? When the workers laboring to raise the roof of the old  
> Cooper Tunnel on the Norfolk Southern mainline in Mercer County see  
> daylight, it?s about time to call it a day.
>
> NS is on the home stretch of the Heartland Corridor project that  
> started in the fall of 2007 and is on track to be finished later  
> this summer. When it?s done, the Heartland Corridor will enable NS  
> to move double-stacked freight cars from Lambert?s Point (near  
> Hampton Roads, Va.) on the Atlantic coast all the way to Chicago on  
> the Lake Michigan shore.
>
> ?When people ask, I tell them we?re clear in Virginia as far as  
> Belcher Bridge in Bluefield,? James N. Carter Jr., PE, chief  
> engineer/bridges and structures with NS said. ?When they ask me  
> when it will be done, I tell them August.?
>
> Carter, 57, is an old-school railroader who was born in Piedmont,  
> near Mullens when his father, a Virginian Railway locomotive  
> engineer, was serving in the Korean War with the U.S. Army. After  
> the Virginian merged with the Norfolk & Western Railway in 1959,  
> the family moved from Mullens to Bluefield, where the senior Mr.  
> Carter worked with the N&W. The family picked out a home on the  
> Virginia side so young Jim could pursue his lifelong dream of  
> attending Virginia Tech. ?As an in-state student,? Carter said.
>
> Each structure ? tunnel, low bridge or narrow cut ? along the 1,200  
> mile-plus long Heartland Corridor has its own set of challenges.  
> Before crews with LRL Construction of Tillamook, Ore., started  
> work, Carter had to hammer out the details of the project with his  
> brother NS railroaders. Both mainline tracks needed to be shut down  
> for a while, but with as many as 18 trains moving through Bluefield  
> over a 12-hour period, Gary Shepard, superintendent of NS?s  
> Pocahontas Division headquartered in Bluefield would have his hands  
> full.
>
> ?The hardest thing about doing a job like this is having to run  
> trains every day on one of the busiest sections in the NS system,?  
> Carter said. ?I worked at the coal load-out in Lambert?s Point for  
> 15 years, so I know how important it is. I wanted as much  
> uninterrupted time as possible to work on the structures, so the  
> transportation planning people worked with people on the coal  
> traffic side and we figured it out.
>
> ?Gary asked me: ?Does it make any difference if you work in the day  
> or night?? I told him it?s always dark in the tunnel, so it didn?t  
> matter,? Carter said. ?They close the track down from 2 a.m., until  
> noon every day. We get a section done, clean everything up and get  
> back to it when we go in the next day.? Since coal traffic is  
> traditionally heavier late in the week, the Cooper Tunnel crew  
> works Saturday through Wednesday.
>
> Initial construction of the Cooper Tunnel was a significant moment  
> in the history of the N&W Railway?s development of the McDowell  
> County coalfields. Keystones at both ends of the tunnel bear a 1902  
> date, but the start of the tunnel triggered the development of the  
> vast metallurgical coalfields in McDowell County. Pioneer coal  
> baron Jenkin Jones was in the first wave of McDowell County coal  
> developers, but Samuel A. Crozer, John J. Lincoln, L.E. Tierney and  
> others soon ignited the McDowell County coal boom of the early 20th  
> Century.
>
> The crews who built the Cooper Tunnel in the late 19th and early  
> 20th centuries built it to last. The 680-foot long tunnel has a  
> huge void above the roof that appears on maps to extend more than  
> two-thirds the length of the structure. The void is listed at as  
> much as 18 feet on some of the maps, but Bill Hawk, an inspector  
> with Jacobs Associates laughed and hinted that the charts may not  
> be entirely accurate.
>
> The roof of the old tunnel was lined courses of bricks set in  
> mortar, topped with another 4-foot layer of concrete. ?Some huge  
> rocks fell on the top in that void over the years, but didn?t come  
> through,? Carter said.
>
> ?They originally had wood stacked up in there,? Jared Beeler,  
> superintendent on the tunnel job for LRL said.
>
> ?One place up in there, we found lead buckets that they used to  
> carry grout up there,? Mike Downs of LRL said. ?They built this  
> back when men were men.? The LRL crews donated the lead grout  
> buckets and some other artifacts to Bramwell Mayor Louise Stoker to  
> display at the Bramwell Depot.
>
> Carter said crews are replacing the arched brick roof with curved  
> steel I-beams, topping them with 48-inches of concrete and moving  
> the top up from its former 19?6? to a new height of 20?3?. After  
> everything is in place, workers will top the steel interior of the  
> roof with shot-crete.
>
> In addition to the Cooper Tunnel, crews are also working on the Big  
> Sandy 1, 2, and 3 tunnels. When the project is completed, crews  
> will have completed expansion of five miles in total length of 28  
> tunnels. Crews lowered the track in five of the tunnels, but all  
> the rest involved raising the roof.
>
> Safety is a priority on the job site. So far, one contractor died  
> as a result of injuries received on the project. Larry Dale Hunt,  
> 28, of McDowell County died Oct. 22, 2009, while excavating broken  
> concrete at Tunnel #3 near Gray Eagle. NS Spokesman Robin Chapman  
> said that approximately 160 ton of materials fell on the excavator  
> Hunt was operating. Hunt was working for Johnson Western Gunite.
>
> When the project is finished, it will cut the mileage double- 
> stacked trains travel from Hampton Roads to Chicago by about 1,000  
> miles.
>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 12:07:13 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:07:13 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
In-Reply-To: <74CE2225BEE64E87A88B1E914139188F@YOUR37E34C38B1>
References: <COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
	<74CE2225BEE64E87A88B1E914139188F@YOUR37E34C38B1>
Message-ID: <B1CB885A5E794171A1E4F0944FF63DA8@LRPCMASTER>

In 1908 the Commonwealth of Va appropriated $40,000 to establish the first
Tuberculosis Sanitorium in Catawba, west of Roanoke. Did the N&W Catawba
branch exist at least in part because of the sanitorium?
 

Craig Close 
Balimer, Merlan 
OK: Far West Catonsville 
OR: Greater Oella 

 

  _____  

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:43 AM
To: 'NW Mailing List'
Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building



 

 

  _____  

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:23 AM
To: Norfolk Western Mailing List
Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building

 

>>Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?<<

 

Consumption was the old name for tuberculosis, so consumptives were people
with that disease. Before antibiotics, tuberculosis was essentially a death
sentence. Mountain air was believed to ease the symptoms so TB sanitariums
were frequently located in mountainous areas.  

 

Rob doorack
 



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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 12:28:46 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:28:46 -0500
Subject: Photo of Class M locomotive at Bina, NC
References: <mailman.96.1264452124.33498.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <001801ca9ead$048d9980$e430fea9@lmnewton>

During winter months, N&W locomotives with conventional pilots (not the cast 
steel pilots of the As, Js, and K2s) were equipped with small triangular 
"snowplows" attached to the bottom of the pilots.  For example, see photo of 
Y-6 2126 so equipped on page 540 of RAILS REMEMBERED, Volume 3.

Louis Newton
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org>
To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, January 25, 2010 3:42 PM
Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 52, Issue 35


> Send NW-Mailing-List mailing list submissions to
> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
>
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> than "Re: Contents of NW-Mailing-List digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 52, Issue 34 (NW Mailing List)
>   2. N&W in 1910--Office building (NW Mailing List)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 12:13:44 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 52, Issue 34
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Message-ID: <19412D1D-0CE4-4483-A1CD-7047427EF707 at oscalemag.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> Gentlemen,
> Regarding the photo at "Bira", I notice the M has sheet metal
> attached across the bottom of the pilot. Does anyone know why this
> was done? Is it a makeshift snowplow? Any info would be appreciated.
> Thanks
> Joe Giannovario
> O Scale Trains Magazine
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:34:48 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
> To: "3N&W Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <67E147ACC51D4317B49709368D7F7318 at DellVostro>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Bluefield Daily Telegraph
> August 13, 1910
>
> BLUEFIELD IS LOSING ONE OF ITS LANDMARKS
> ------
> Terminal Trainmaster Relates History of Old Division Office Now Being Torn 
> Down
>    Bluefield is losing one of its oldest landmarks, the old division 
> office, which is being torn down.  A nice lawn will take its place.  The 
> building has been standing since July, 1888, and is almost a part of the 
> town.  Within its walls the preliminary plans of the great Pocahontas 
> Division were carried out and each room has such a history connected with 
> it that old railroad men stand and watch it coming apart without even 
> daring to walk inside of it, so great is their respect for the old site of 
> their former battles to make the road a success.
>    J. M. MeIlhaney, terminal trainmaster, gave the Daily Telegraph a short 
> history of the building last night.  He easily remembers it from the days 
> when this most wealthy division of the Norfolk and Western was only the 
> Pocahontas branch.
>    Mr. McIlhaney says the first offices were maintained in the present 
> freight depot.  This was in July, 1888.  About this time twenty-two years 
> ago the offices were moved in the building that is now being torn down. 
> The division at that time was called the Radford and Pocahontas division 
> and John A. Hardy was superintendent.  The road at that time went to 
> Powhatan, while branches ran to Pocahontas, Goodwill and Simmons.  The 
> Clinch Valley division was not in operation at that time.
>    The official family at that time was John A. Hardy, superintendent, 
> Captain D. H. Barger, trainmaster, R. E. Winters, chief dispatcher.
>    The yard office was located in the northwest room on the first floor 
> while the trainmaster's office was overhead on the second floor.  The 
> dispatcher's office was in the north bay station.  The waiting room for 
> trainmen was on the first floor in the northeast room, while the 
> timekeeper occupied the room above.
>    The supervisor, or roadmaster, as he is known occupied the southwest 
> room on the second floor while the reading room for trainmen, out of which 
> grew the Railroad Y. M. C. A., which now has a large building of its own, 
> recently erected on Pulaski street, occupied the southeast room in the old 
> building now being torn down.  The yard master, who was either a man named 
> Wright or Joe Collins, occupied the other room on the south side.  The 
> attic at that time was used as a bed room by the trainmaster and other 
> men, the dispatchers many times turning in to sleep there at that time, 
> which was long before the present regulations as to hours of work went 
> into effect.
>    It was hard at that time to get a house in this city and the first 
> house completed by the railroad was the building on Princeton avenue, 
> recently owned by Weslie Wilkes, which was first occupied by J. M. 
> McIlhaney, who was at that time a train dispatcher.
>    Since July, 1888, many changes have taken place in the Norfolk and 
> Western but the old building was occupied as an office until about a year 
> ago when the offices were moved to the old Bluefield Inn building, which 
> was remodeled for office purposes.  This building is one of the most 
> imposing structures in the city and at one time Thomas F. Ryan wanted to 
> purchase it as a home for consumptives.  The Norfolk and Western, however, 
> would not consent to the bringing to this city of a home for consumptives.
>    The destruction of the building removes another of this city's 
> landmarks and for years to come the few men who are left on the road who 
> were here in 1888 will look to where the building now is and feel that 
> something is lacking.
> [I wonder if the wooden building in the attached picture from Neg. 21413 
> in the Virginia Tech image database isn't the division office described in 
> the article.  It has a bay on the north side as described for the location 
> of the dispatcher's office.  Also, the article states that the building 
> will be replaced by a "nice lawn," and vintage photos show a lawn east of 
> the passenger depot where the parking lot was in later years and about 
> where the building in question is in this picture.]
> ------
> Gordon Hamilton
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> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
> End of NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 52, Issue 35
> ***********************************************


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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 12:33:09 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:33:09 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
References: <67E147ACC51D4317B49709368D7F7318@DellVostro><COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
	<868D8C93-900F-4F5D-87F9-C54AA3240FAD@rev.net>
Message-ID: <33937DC0678B46218AB60EF48CAC63D0@Gene>

I thought that it was a retirement home for old Rail Heads.


Yes, I can understand"sentimentality attached". I grew up in Bluefield in the 40's and 50's. When I go there now I am sickened by what I see, or by what I don't see. Especially the metal butler building standing where the old stone passenger station once stood..

Gene Arnold
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: NW Mailing List 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:42 AM
  Subject: Re: N&W in 1910--Office building


  "Consumption" was an old name for Tuburculosis, which seemed to "consume" its victims.


  On another aspect of the story, It is kind of interesting to think of the sentimentality attached to a building that is all of 22 years old. Can any here imagine feeling nostalgia for a building built in 1988?


  Ken Miller


  On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:23 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:


    Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?
     
    Thanks,
    Dave Willis
    (blt 1962, c/n 4)
     

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 13:09:06 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:09:06 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
Message-ID: <897439.25927.qm@web23902.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

I initially thought the same, but age really isnt the only factor that creates nostalgia.  Hard work for a common cause can bind people, and the place where the work took place, together as well. It sounds like that's what took place in this building. 

If you were to ask any of those men who slept in the attic what they thought about the building at that time, I suspect there would have been no fond feelings expressed!    

Matt


On Jan 26, 2010, at 8:42 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

"Consumption" was an old name for Tuburculosis, which seemed to "consume" its victims.

On another aspect of the story, It is kind of interesting to think of the sentimentality attached to a building that is all of 22 years old. Can any here imagine feeling nostalgia for a building built in 1988?

Ken Miller
 
On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:23 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?
 
Thanks,
Dave Willis
(blt 1962, c/n 4)
 
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:34:48 -0500
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
August 13, 1910
 
BLUEFIELD IS LOSING ONE OF ITS LANDMARKS
------
Terminal Trainmaster Relates History of Old Division Office Now Being Torn Down
    Bluefield is losing one of its oldest landmarks, the old division office, which is being torn down.  A nice lawn will take its place.  The building has been standing since July, 1888, and is almost a part of the town.  Within its walls the preliminary plans of the great Pocahontas Division were carried out and each room has such a history connected with it that old railroad men stand and watch it coming apart without even daring to walk inside of it, so great is their respect for the old site of their former battles to make the road a success.
    J. M. MeIlhaney, terminal trainmaster, gave the Daily Telegraph a short history of the building last night.  He easily remembers it from the days when this most wealthy division of the Norfolk and Western was only the Pocahontas branch.
    Mr. McIlhaney says the first offices were maintained in the present freight depot.  This was in July, 1888.  About this time twenty-two years ago the offices were moved in the building that is now being torn down.  The division at that time was called the Radford and Pocahontas division and John A. Hardy was superintendent.  The road at that time went to Powhatan, while branches ran to Pocahontas, Goodwill and Simmons.  The Clinch Valley division was not in operation at that time.
    The official family at that time was John A. Hardy, superintendent, Captain D. H. Barger, trainmaster, R. E. Winters, chief dispatcher.
    The yard office was located in the northwest room on the first floor while the trainmaster's office was overhead on the second floor.  The dispatcher's office was in the north bay station.  The waiting room for trainmen was on the first floor in the northeast room, while the timekeeper occupied the room above.
    The supervisor, or roadmaster, as he is known occupied the southwest room on the second floor while the reading room for trainmen, out of which grew the Railroad Y. M. C. A., which now has a large building of its own, recently erected on Pulaski street, occupied the southeast room in the old building now being torn down.  The yard master, who was either a man named Wright or Joe Collins, occupied the other room on the south side.  The attic at that time was used as a bed room by the trainmaster and other men, the dispatchers many times turning in to sleep there at that time, which was long before the present regulations as to hours of work went into effect.
    It was hard at that time to get a house in this city and the first house completed by the railroad was the building on Princeton avenue, recently owned by Weslie Wilkes, which was first occupied by J. M. McIlhaney, who was at that time a train dispatcher.
    Since July, 1888, many changes have taken place in the Norfolk and Western but the old building was occupied as an office until about a year ago when the offices were moved to the old Bluefield Inn building, which was remodeled for office purposes.  This building is one of the most imposing structures in the city and at one time Thomas F. Ryan wanted to purchase it as a home for consumptives.  The Norfolk and Western, however, would not consent to the bringing to this city of a home for consumptives.
    The destruction of the building removes another of this city's landmarks and for years to come the few men who are left on the road who were here in 1888 will look to where the building now is and feel that something is lacking.
[I wonder if the wooden building in the attached picture from Neg. 21413 in the Virginia Tech image database isn't the division office described in the article.  It has a bay on the north side as described for the location of the dispatcher's office.  Also, the article states that the building will be replaced by a "nice lawn," and vintage photos show a lawn east of the passenger depot where the parking lot was in later years and about where the building in question is in this picture.]
------
Gordon Hamilton

Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 15:05:22 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:05:22 -0500
Subject: As seen in Roanoke
References: <4B5D86D6.4090002@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <198C787295AF4FCD9A27A5A38AE4FD33@Jimmy>

"I Googled RTEX Locomotive Services.  They are an equipment rebuilder located in Social Circle, GA. A link to www.rrpicturesarchives.net has photo album showing the 4005 and the 97 before repainting and a story about the Great Walton Covington Branch RR.
I hope this helps.
David Lugar"

David,
    Sorry, but, your link went nowhere. I guess that I should have been more specific and asked why the units were named "Lilly", "Marlie" and "Piper"?

Jimmy Lisle

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 09:35:46 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 09:35:46 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
In-Reply-To: <COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
References: <67E147ACC51D4317B49709368D7F7318@DellVostro>
	<COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <002a01ca9e94$db7dbec0$92793c40$@net>

I think that was a home for tuberculosis patients.

 

Bob McKell

 

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:23 AM
To: Norfolk Western Mailing List
Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building

 

Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?
 
Thanks,
Dave Willis
(blt 1962, c/n 4)
 

  _____  

To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:34:48 -0500
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
August 13, 1910

 

BLUEFIELD IS LOSING ONE OF ITS LANDMARKS

------

Terminal Trainmaster Relates History of Old Division Office Now Being Torn
Down

    Bluefield is losing one of its oldest landmarks, the old division
office, which is being torn down.  A nice lawn will take its place.  The
building has been standing since July, 1888, and is almost a part of the
town.  Within its walls the preliminary plans of the great Pocahontas
Division were carried out and each room has such a history connected with it
that old railroad men stand and watch it coming apart without even daring to
walk inside of it, so great is their respect for the old site of their
former battles to make the road a success.

    J. M. MeIlhaney, terminal trainmaster, gave the Daily Telegraph a short
history of the building last night.  He easily remembers it from the days
when this most wealthy division of the Norfolk and Western was only the
Pocahontas branch.

    Mr. McIlhaney says the first offices were maintained in the present
freight depot.  This was in July, 1888.  About this time twenty-two years
ago the offices were moved in the building that is now being torn down.  The
division at that time was called the Radford and Pocahontas division and
John A. Hardy was superintendent.  The road at that time went to Powhatan,
while branches ran to Pocahontas, Goodwill and Simmons.  The Clinch Valley
division was not in operation at that time.

    The official family at that time was John A. Hardy, superintendent,
Captain D. H. Barger, trainmaster, R. E. Winters, chief dispatcher.

    The yard office was located in the northwest room on the first floor
while the trainmaster's office was overhead on the second floor.  The
dispatcher's office was in the north bay station.  The waiting room for
trainmen was on the first floor in the northeast room, while the timekeeper
occupied the room above.

    The supervisor, or roadmaster, as he is known occupied the southwest
room on the second floor while the reading room for trainmen, out of which
grew the Railroad Y. M. C. A., which now has a large building of its own,
recently erected on Pulaski street, occupied the southeast room in the old
building now being torn down.  The yard master, who was either a man named
Wright or Joe Collins, occupied the other room on the south side.  The attic
at that time was used as a bed room by the trainmaster and other men, the
dispatchers many times turning in to sleep there at that time, which was
long before the present regulations as to hours of work went into effect.

    It was hard at that time to get a house in this city and the first house
completed by the railroad was the building on Princeton avenue, recently
owned by Weslie Wilkes, which was first occupied by J. M. McIlhaney, who was
at that time a train dispatcher.

    Since July, 1888, many changes have taken place in the Norfolk and
Western but the old building was occupied as an office until about a year
ago when the offices were moved to the old Bluefield Inn building, which was
remodeled for office purposes.  This building is one of the most imposing
structures in the city and at one time Thomas F. Ryan wanted to purchase it
as a home for consumptives.  The Norfolk and Western, however, would not
consent to the bringing to this city of a home for consumptives.

    The destruction of the building removes another of this city's landmarks
and for years to come the few men who are left on the road who were here in
1888 will look to where the building now is and feel that something is
lacking.

[I wonder if the wooden building in the attached picture from Neg. 21413 in
the Virginia Tech image database isn't the division office described in the
article.  It has a bay on the north side as described for the location of
the dispatcher's office.  Also, the article states that the building will be
replaced by a "nice lawn," and vintage photos show a lawn east of the
passenger depot where the parking lot was in later years and about where the
building in question is in this picture.]

------

Gordon Hamilton

 

  _____  

Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. Sign up
<http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/196390707/direct/01/>  now.

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 13:53:27 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:53:27 -0500
Subject: Another one bites the light
In-Reply-To: <B8AFA982-7B4C-41A7-A277-13CB61142900@rev.net>
References: <25EC385AB8604E0E90414A8420ABE616@silver>,
	<B8AFA982-7B4C-41A7-A277-13CB61142900@rev.net>
Message-ID: <BBADFDDE10FD2A4EBAFF96D3117A04F504989D2C82@ECUSTU4.intra.ecu.edu>

I have bicycled the North Bend Rail Trail (former B&O) from Clarksburg to Petersburg. They had numerous tunnels from 1850's that were expanded during the 1960's. Many of the tunnels had lowered floors, which appeared to preserve the tunnel with the same brick lining and ceiling as it was built with. Others had the ceiling raised, and I'm guessing that on those tunnels many of the walls were original, but the roofs and the keystones (at then entrances) were obviously modified. And of course, a few of the tunnels were "bypassed" by digging a cut to one side of the tunnel and leaving the old tunnel as it was.

_________________________________
Mike Weeks, LCSW, LCAS
M1, Brody School of Medicine 2013
MSW, UNC at Charlotte 2003
BS Acct, UNC at Charlotte 1989
________________________________________
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List [nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org]
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:42 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Another one bites the light

I think you are using the incorrect term, "daylighting" infers removal of the earth and fill, as well as the top of either the brick, or conctete to convert the tunnel to a cut. This was done to the former Shawsville tunnel back about 1990-91. The changes here at Cooper are essentially cutting out the roof a total of 9 inches by my reading.

Generally, there is not much to document (at least photographically) on this type of operation, as very little that one can see outside the tunnel is changed.

According to the article, five of the 28 tunnels involved lowering the track level, the rest were like Cooper, by raising the roof.

Ken Miller

On Jan 25, 2010, at 9:48 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

Anybody making last chance photos at Coopers and the other tunnels being daylighted?  See attached article from BD Telegraph below:
Jim Cochran


Light at the end of the tunnel:
By Bill Archer
Bluefield Daily Telegraph

COOPERS ? When the workers laboring to raise the roof of the old Cooper Tunnel on the Norfolk Southern mainline in Mercer County see daylight, it?s about time to call it a day.

NS is on the home stretch of the Heartland Corridor project that started in the fall of 2007 and is on track to be finished later this summer. When it?s done, the Heartland Corridor will enable NS to move double-stacked freight cars from Lambert?s Point (near Hampton Roads, Va.) on the Atlantic coast all the way to Chicago on the Lake Michigan shore.

?When people ask, I tell them we?re clear in Virginia as far as Belcher Bridge in Bluefield,? James N. Carter Jr., PE, chief engineer/bridges and structures with NS said. ?When they ask me when it will be done, I tell them August.?

Carter, 57, is an old-school railroader who was born in Piedmont, near Mullens when his father, a Virginian Railway locomotive engineer, was serving in the Korean War with the U.S. Army. After the Virginian merged with the Norfolk & Western Railway in 1959, the family moved from Mullens to Bluefield, where the senior Mr. Carter worked with the N&W. The family picked out a home on the Virginia side so young Jim could pursue his lifelong dream of attending Virginia Tech. ?As an in-state student,? Carter said.

Each structure ? tunnel, low bridge or narrow cut ? along the 1,200 mile-plus long Heartland Corridor has its own set of challenges. Before crews with LRL Construction of Tillamook, Ore., started work, Carter had to hammer out the details of the project with his brother NS railroaders. Both mainline tracks needed to be shut down for a while, but with as many as 18 trains moving through Bluefield over a 12-hour period, Gary Shepard, superintendent of NS?s Pocahontas Division headquartered in Bluefield would have his hands full.

?The hardest thing about doing a job like this is having to run trains every day on one of the busiest sections in the NS system,? Carter said. ?I worked at the coal load-out in Lambert?s Point for 15 years, so I know how important it is. I wanted as much uninterrupted time as possible to work on the structures, so the transportation planning people worked with people on the coal traffic side and we figured it out.

?Gary asked me: ?Does it make any difference if you work in the day or night?? I told him it?s always dark in the tunnel, so it didn?t matter,? Carter said. ?They close the track down from 2 a.m., until noon every day. We get a section done, clean everything up and get back to it when we go in the next day.? Since coal traffic is traditionally heavier late in the week, the Cooper Tunnel crew works Saturday through Wednesday.

Initial construction of the Cooper Tunnel was a significant moment in the history of the N&W Railway?s development of the McDowell County coalfields. Keystones at both ends of the tunnel bear a 1902 date, but the start of the tunnel triggered the development of the vast metallurgical coalfields in McDowell County. Pioneer coal baron Jenkin Jones was in the first wave of McDowell County coal developers, but Samuel A. Crozer, John J. Lincoln, L.E. Tierney and others soon ignited the McDowell County coal boom of the early 20th Century.

The crews who built the Cooper Tunnel in the late 19th and early 20th centuries built it to last. The 680-foot long tunnel has a huge void above the roof that appears on maps to extend more than two-thirds the length of the structure. The void is listed at as much as 18 feet on some of the maps, but Bill Hawk, an inspector with Jacobs Associates laughed and hinted that the charts may not be entirely accurate.

The roof of the old tunnel was lined courses of bricks set in mortar, topped with another 4-foot layer of concrete. ?Some huge rocks fell on the top in that void over the years, but didn?t come through,? Carter said.

?They originally had wood stacked up in there,? Jared Beeler, superintendent on the tunnel job for LRL said.

?One place up in there, we found lead buckets that they used to carry grout up there,? Mike Downs of LRL said. ?They built this back when men were men.? The LRL crews donated the lead grout buckets and some other artifacts to Bramwell Mayor Louise Stoker to display at the Bramwell Depot.

Carter said crews are replacing the arched brick roof with curved steel I-beams, topping them with 48-inches of concrete and moving the top up from its former 19?6? to a new height of 20?3?. After everything is in place, workers will top the steel interior of the roof with shot-crete.

In addition to the Cooper Tunnel, crews are also working on the Big Sandy 1, 2, and 3 tunnels. When the project is completed, crews will have completed expansion of five miles in total length of 28 tunnels. Crews lowered the track in five of the tunnels, but all the rest involved raising the roof.

Safety is a priority on the job site. So far, one contractor died as a result of injuries received on the project. Larry Dale Hunt, 28, of McDowell County died Oct. 22, 2009, while excavating broken concrete at Tunnel #3 near Gray Eagle. NS Spokesman Robin Chapman said that approximately 160 ton of materials fell on the excavator Hunt was operating. Hunt was working for Johnson Western Gunite.

When the project is finished, it will cut the mileage double-stacked trains travel from Hampton Roads to Chicago by about 1,000 miles.


________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org<mailto:NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org>
To change your subscription go to
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 16:22:30 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:22:30 -0500
Subject: M class & snow plow.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.84.1264537536.9641.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
References: <mailman.84.1264537536.9641.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <C7D96A5F-DD98-41A8-84CA-892BCE40CEE1@oscalemag.com>

> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:28:46 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Photo of Class M locomotive at Bina, NC
> To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <001801ca9ead$048d9980$e430fea9 at lmnewton>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
> 	reply-type=original
>
> During winter months, N&W locomotives with conventional pilots (not  
> the cast
> steel pilots of the As, Js, and K2s) were equipped with small  
> triangular
> "snowplows" attached to the bottom of the pilots.  For example, see  
> photo of
> Y-6 2126 so equipped on page 540 of RAILS REMEMBERED, Volume 3.
>
> Louis Newton


================

Thanks. That's a great detail to add to one of my Ms.

Joe Giannovario
Publisher
O Scale Trains Magazine


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 16:53:56 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 13:53:56 -0800
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
In-Reply-To: <74CE2225BEE64E87A88B1E914139188F@YOUR37E34C38B1>
References: <74CE2225BEE64E87A88B1E914139188F@YOUR37E34C38B1>
Message-ID: <ABA29FAC-B8F5-4116-B6D8-AC66125DB367@sbcglobal.net>

Also in desert areas; I believe that much of the early economy of  
Arizona was based on TB "sanitoriums" being established there.

pete groom
On Jan 26, 2010, at 5:43 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

>
>
> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org 
> ] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:23 AM
> To: Norfolk Western Mailing List
> Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building
>
> >>Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?<<
>
> Consumption was the old name for tuberculosis, so consumptives were  
> people with that disease. Before antibiotics, tuberculosis was  
> essentially a death sentence. Mountain air was believed to ease the  
> symptoms so TB sanitariums were frequently located in mountainous  
> areas.
>
> Rob doorack
>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 16:40:50 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:40:50 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
In-Reply-To: <COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <MDECKOPJHELMLOBFLNIPCEOICCAA.wbheilig@chartermi.net>

Consumption was what they used to call cancer.  I would guess the "home for
consumptives" was a final stage care facitily of some kind.

Bill Heilig
  -----Original Message-----
  From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org]On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
  Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:23 AM
  To: Norfolk Western Mailing List
  Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building


  Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?

  Thanks,
  Dave Willis
  (blt 1962, c/n 4)


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
  To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
  Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
  Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:34:48 -0500
  From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org


  Bluefield Daily Telegraph
  August 13, 1910

  BLUEFIELD IS LOSING ONE OF ITS LANDMARKS
  ------
  Terminal Trainmaster Relates History of Old Division Office Now Being Torn
Down
      Bluefield is losing one of its oldest landmarks, the old division
office, which is being torn down.  A nice lawn will take its place.  The
building has been standing since July, 1888, and is almost a part of the
town.  Within its walls the preliminary plans of the great Pocahontas
Division were carried out and each room has such a history connected with it
that old railroad men stand and watch it coming apart without even daring to
walk inside of it, so great is their respect for the old site of their
former battles to make the road a success.
      J. M. MeIlhaney, terminal trainmaster, gave the Daily Telegraph a
short history of the building last night.  He easily remembers it from the
days when this most wealthy division of the Norfolk and Western was only the
Pocahontas branch.
      Mr. McIlhaney says the first offices were maintained in the present
freight depot.  This was in July, 1888.  About this time twenty-two years
ago the offices were moved in the building that is now being torn down.  The
division at that time was called the Radford and Pocahontas division and
John A. Hardy was superintendent.  The road at that time went to Powhatan,
while branches ran to Pocahontas, Goodwill and Simmons.  The Clinch Valley
division was not in operation at that time.
      The official family at that time was John A. Hardy, superintendent,
Captain D. H. Barger, trainmaster, R. E. Winters, chief dispatcher.
      The yard office was located in the northwest room on the first floor
while the trainmaster's office was overhead on the second floor.  The
dispatcher's office was in the north bay station.  The waiting room for
trainmen was on the first floor in the northeast room, while the timekeeper
occupied the room above.
      The supervisor, or roadmaster, as he is known occupied the southwest
room on the second floor while the reading room for trainmen, out of which
grew the Railroad Y. M. C. A., which now has a large building of its own,
recently erected on Pulaski street, occupied the southeast room in the old
building now being torn down.  The yard master, who was either a man named
Wright or Joe Collins, occupied the other room on the south side.  The attic
at that time was used as a bed room by the trainmaster and other men, the
dispatchers many times turning in to sleep there at that time, which was
long before the present regulations as to hours of work went into effect.
      It was hard at that time to get a house in this city and the first
house completed by the railroad was the building on Princeton avenue,
recently owned by Weslie Wilkes, which was first occupied by J. M.
McIlhaney, who was at that time a train dispatcher.
      Since July, 1888, many changes have taken place in the Norfolk and
Western but the old building was occupied as an office until about a year
ago when the offices were moved to the old Bluefield Inn building, which was
remodeled for office purposes.  This building is one of the most imposing
structures in the city and at one time Thomas F. Ryan wanted to purchase it
as a home for consumptives.  The Norfolk and Western, however, would not
consent to the bringing to this city of a home for consumptives.
      The destruction of the building removes another of this city's
landmarks and for years to come the few men who are left on the road who
were here in 1888 will look to where the building now is and feel that
something is lacking.
  [I wonder if the wooden building in the attached picture from Neg. 21413
in the Virginia Tech image database isn't the division office described in
the article.  It has a bay on the north side as described for the location
of the dispatcher's office.  Also, the article states that the building will
be replaced by a "nice lawn," and vintage photos show a lawn east of the
passenger depot where the parking lot was in later years and about where the
building in question is in this picture.]
  ------
  Gordon Hamilton


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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 17:19:54 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:19:54 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
References: <MDECKOPJHELMLOBFLNIPCEOICCAA.wbheilig@chartermi.net>
Message-ID: <016a01ca9ed5$afafff10$2a01a8c0@judy2a11867152>

Consumption was what they called TB!!



  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: NW Mailing List 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 4:40 PM
  Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building


  Consumption was what they used to call cancer.  I would guess the "home for consumptives" was a final stage care facitily of some kind.  

  Bill Heilig 
    -----Original Message-----
    From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org]On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
    Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:23 AM
    To: Norfolk Western Mailing List
    Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building


    Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?
     
    Thanks,
    Dave Willis
    (blt 1962, c/n 4)
     

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
    Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
    Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:34:48 -0500
    From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org


    Bluefield Daily Telegraph
    August 13, 1910

    BLUEFIELD IS LOSING ONE OF ITS LANDMARKS
    ------
    Terminal Trainmaster Relates History of Old Division Office Now Being Torn Down
        Bluefield is losing one of its oldest landmarks, the old division office, which is being torn down.  A nice lawn will take its place.  The building has been standing since July, 1888, and is almost a part of the town.  Within its walls the preliminary plans of the great Pocahontas Division were carried out and each room has such a history connected with it that old railroad men stand and watch it coming apart without even daring to walk inside of it, so great is their respect for the old site of their former battles to make the road a success.
        J. M. MeIlhaney, terminal trainmaster, gave the Daily Telegraph a short history of the building last night.  He easily remembers it from the days when this most wealthy division of the Norfolk and Western was only the Pocahontas branch.
        Mr. McIlhaney says the first offices were maintained in the present freight depot.  This was in July, 1888.  About this time twenty-two years ago the offices were moved in the building that is now being torn down.  The division at that time was called the Radford and Pocahontas division and John A. Hardy was superintendent.  The road at that time went to Powhatan, while branches ran to Pocahontas, Goodwill and Simmons.  The Clinch Valley division was not in operation at that time.
        The official family at that time was John A. Hardy, superintendent, Captain D. H. Barger, trainmaster, R. E. Winters, chief dispatcher.
        The yard office was located in the northwest room on the first floor while the trainmaster's office was overhead on the second floor.  The dispatcher's office was in the north bay station.  The waiting room for trainmen was on the first floor in the northeast room, while the timekeeper occupied the room above.
        The supervisor, or roadmaster, as he is known occupied the southwest room on the second floor while the reading room for trainmen, out of which grew the Railroad Y. M. C. A., which now has a large building of its own, recently erected on Pulaski street, occupied the southeast room in the old building now being torn down.  The yard master, who was either a man named Wright or Joe Collins, occupied the other room on the south side.  The attic at that time was used as a bed room by the trainmaster and other men, the dispatchers many times turning in to sleep there at that time, which was long before the present regulations as to hours of work went into effect.
        It was hard at that time to get a house in this city and the first house completed by the railroad was the building on Princeton avenue, recently owned by Weslie Wilkes, which was first occupied by J. M. McIlhaney, who was at that time a train dispatcher.
        Since July, 1888, many changes have taken place in the Norfolk and Western but the old building was occupied as an office until about a year ago when the offices were moved to the old Bluefield Inn building, which was remodeled for office purposes.  This building is one of the most imposing structures in the city and at one time Thomas F. Ryan wanted to purchase it as a home for consumptives.  The Norfolk and Western, however, would not consent to the bringing to this city of a home for consumptives.
        The destruction of the building removes another of this city's landmarks and for years to come the few men who are left on the road who were here in 1888 will look to where the building now is and feel that something is lacking.
    [I wonder if the wooden building in the attached picture from Neg. 21413 in the Virginia Tech image database isn't the division office described in the article.  It has a bay on the north side as described for the location of the dispatcher's office.  Also, the article states that the building will be replaced by a "nice lawn," and vintage photos show a lawn east of the passenger depot where the parking lot was in later years and about where the building in question is in this picture.]
    ------
    Gordon Hamilton


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 17:46:39 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:46:39 +0000
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
In-Reply-To: <MDECKOPJHELMLOBFLNIPCEOICCAA.wbheilig@chartermi.net>
References: <MDECKOPJHELMLOBFLNIPCEOICCAA.wbheilig@chartermi.net>
Message-ID: <4B5F70CF.5090704@ieee.org>



NW Mailing List wrote:
> Consumption was what they used to call cancer.  I would guess the 
> "home for consumptives" was a final stage care facitily of some kind.  
<snip>

As others have posted, consumption was what tuberculosis (TB) was known 
as for a long time.

It was (and still is) a major disease, and the most common form of 
death, with apparently more than 80% of the U.S. population infected 
before the age of 20 at the beginning of the 20th century. By 1938 there 
were more than 700 TB hospitals in the U.S. There are now estimated to 
be 8-10 million new cases of TB a year worldwide resulting in around 3 
million deaths.

http://www.answers.com/topic/tuberculosis

See also The History of the Tuberculosis

'It is in this larger context that the history of tuberculosis sanatoria 
in Virginia unfolds and is best understood. Blue Ridge Sanatorium, for 
instance, is representative of many of the early sanatoria in Virginia 
and beautifully embodies this complex evolution of theories regarding 
tuberculosis.'

http://www.faculty.virginia.edu/blueridgesanatorium/tuberculosis.html

and

"In the early 20th century, Tuberculosis was the leading cause of death 
in the Unites States. Southern states were more susceptible to 
Tuberculosis due to a high percentage of poverty. In particular, 
Virginia had a ranking among the highest in the country. The state of 
Virginia tried to alleviate this problem by opening state run sanatoria. 
The Catawba Sanatorium was the first to open in Virginia in 1909. 
Located near Roanoke, it offered a mountainous landscape and healing 
waters. The first sanatorium for the treatment of blacks in the state of 
Virginia was opened in 1918 near Burkeville, VA. In 1919, The Virginia 
Department of Health opened The Blue Ridge Sanatorium near Charlottesville."

http://www.faculty.virginia.edu/blueridgesanatorium/infirmary.html

 From the same source (click on 'Other Virginia Sanatoriums' it appears 
that the Catawba Hospital (and then Sanatorium) site was first 
established as a springs resort at Roanoke Red Sulphur Springs, 10 miles 
from the Virginia and Tenessee Railroads Salem depot.

And from the UK's Medical Research Council

It was estimated that worldwide around 7 million people a year died from 
TB at the end of the 19th century.

http://www.mrc.ac.uk/Achievementsimpact/Storiesofimpact/Tuberculosis/index.htm


Dominic
London

-- 
Please help me support the Pirate Castle at
http://www.justgiving.com/dominicpinto

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 17:59:53 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 22:59:53 +0000
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
In-Reply-To: <4B5F70CF.5090704@ieee.org>
References: <MDECKOPJHELMLOBFLNIPCEOICCAA.wbheilig@chartermi.net>
	<4B5F70CF.5090704@ieee.org>
Message-ID: <4B5F73E9.7000901@ieee.org>

Some more on Catawba Hospital is at 
http://www.catawba.dmhmrsas.virginia.gov/Catawba%20History.htm

-- 
Please help me support the Pirate Castle at
http://www.justgiving.com/dominicpinto

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 18:17:34 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:17:34 -0500
Subject: consumption
In-Reply-To: <MDECKOPJHELMLOBFLNIPCEOICCAA.wbheilig@chartermi.net>
Message-ID: <8CC6CF4E0479C53-1120-44CD@web-mmc-d07.sysops.aol.com>


 Bill,

I am not doubting the use of 'consumption' or its meaning in the US but over here in the UK the word always meant tuberculosis / TB.
It has never been used over this side of the pond to refer to cancer. This is an inetersting thread but I fear I am going off topic so will
say no more.

Regards,

Cameron

 

-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Tue, Jan 26, 2010 9:40 pm
Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building


Consumption was what they used to call cancer.  I would guess the "home for consumptives" was a final stage care facitily of some kind.  
 
Bill Heilig 


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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 17:02:40 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:02:40 -0500
Subject: Another one bites the light
In-Reply-To: <25EC385AB8604E0E90414A8420ABE616@silver>
References: <25EC385AB8604E0E90414A8420ABE616@silver>
Message-ID: <4B5F6680.1010903@gmail.com>

I don't think they mean daylighting the tunnel. I think they mean that 
hen raiseing the roof of a tunnel when you start seeing light at then 
end it means you are almost to the end of the tunnel. Therefore almost done.

Nathan Simmons
trainman51 at gmail.com
http://www.t-51.org
KI4MSK



NW Mailing List wrote:
> Anybody making last chance photos at Coopers and the other tunnels 
> being daylighted? See attached article from BD Telegraph below:
> Jim Cochran
>
> *Light at the end of the tunnel:*
>
> *By Bill Archer*
> Bluefield Daily Telegraph
>
> COOPERS ? When the workers laboring to raise the roof of the old 
> Cooper Tunnel on the Norfolk Southern mainline in Mercer County see 
> daylight, it?s about time to call it a day.
>
> NS is on the home stretch of the Heartland Corridor project that 
> started in the fall of 2007 and is on track to be finished later this 
> summer. When it?s done, the Heartland Corridor will enable NS to move 
> double-stacked freight cars from Lambert?s Point (near Hampton Roads, 
> Va.) on the Atlantic coast all the way to Chicago on the Lake Michigan 
> shore.
>
> ?When people ask, I tell them we?re clear in Virginia as far as 
> Belcher Bridge in Bluefield,? James N. Carter Jr., PE, chief 
> engineer/bridges and structures with NS said. ?When they ask me when 
> it will be done, I tell them August.?
>
> Carter, 57, is an old-school railroader who was born in Piedmont, near 
> Mullens when his father, a Virginian Railway locomotive engineer, was 
> serving in the Korean War with the U.S. Army. After the Virginian 
> merged with the Norfolk & Western Railway in 1959, the family moved 
> from Mullens to Bluefield, where the senior Mr. Carter worked with the 
> N&W. The family picked out a home on the Virginia side so young Jim 
> could pursue his lifelong dream of attending Virginia Tech. ?As an 
> in-state student,? Carter said.
>
> Each structure ? tunnel, low bridge or narrow cut ? along the 1,200 
> mile-plus long Heartland Corridor has its own set of challenges. 
> Before crews with LRL Construction of Tillamook, Ore., started work, 
> Carter had to hammer out the details of the project with his brother 
> NS railroaders. Both mainline tracks needed to be shut down for a 
> while, but with as many as 18 trains moving through Bluefield over a 
> 12-hour period, Gary Shepard, superintendent of NS?s Pocahontas 
> Division headquartered in Bluefield would have his hands full.
>
> ?The hardest thing about doing a job like this is having to run trains 
> every day on one of the busiest sections in the NS system,? Carter 
> said. ?I worked at the coal load-out in Lambert?s Point for 15 years, 
> so I know how important it is. I wanted as much uninterrupted time as 
> possible to work on the structures, so the transportation planning 
> people worked with people on the coal traffic side and we figured it out.
>
> ?Gary asked me: ?Does it make any difference if you work in the day or 
> night?? I told him it?s always dark in the tunnel, so it didn?t 
> matter,? Carter said. ?They close the track down from 2 a.m., until 
> noon every day. We get a section done, clean everything up and get 
> back to it when we go in the next day.? Since coal traffic is 
> traditionally heavier late in the week, the Cooper Tunnel crew works 
> Saturday through Wednesday.
>
> Initial construction of the Cooper Tunnel was a significant moment in 
> the history of the N&W Railway?s development of the McDowell County 
> coalfields. Keystones at both ends of the tunnel bear a 1902 date, but 
> the start of the tunnel triggered the development of the vast 
> metallurgical coalfields in McDowell County. Pioneer coal baron Jenkin 
> Jones was in the first wave of McDowell County coal developers, but 
> Samuel A. Crozer, John J. Lincoln, L.E. Tierney and others soon 
> ignited the McDowell County coal boom of the early 20th Century.
>
> The crews who built the Cooper Tunnel in the late 19th and early 20th 
> centuries built it to last. The 680-foot long tunnel has a huge void 
> above the roof that appears on maps to extend more than two-thirds the 
> length of the structure. The void is listed at as much as 18 feet on 
> some of the maps, but Bill Hawk, an inspector with Jacobs Associates 
> laughed and hinted that the charts may not be entirely accurate.
>
> The roof of the old tunnel was lined courses of bricks set in mortar, 
> topped with another 4-foot layer of concrete. ?Some huge rocks fell on 
> the top in that void over the years, but didn?t come through,? Carter 
> said.
>
> ?They originally had wood stacked up in there,? Jared Beeler, 
> superintendent on the tunnel job for LRL said.
>
> ?One place up in there, we found lead buckets that they used to carry 
> grout up there,? Mike Downs of LRL said. ?They built this back when 
> men were men.? The LRL crews donated the lead grout buckets and some 
> other artifacts to Bramwell Mayor Louise Stoker to display at the 
> Bramwell Depot.
>
> Carter said crews are replacing the arched brick roof with curved 
> steel I-beams, topping them with 48-inches of concrete and moving the 
> top up from its former 19?6? to a new height of 20?3?. After 
> everything is in place, workers will top the steel interior of the 
> roof with shot-crete.
>
> In addition to the Cooper Tunnel, crews are also working on the Big 
> Sandy 1, 2, and 3 tunnels. When the project is completed, crews will 
> have completed expansion of five miles in total length of 28 tunnels. 
> Crews lowered the track in five of the tunnels, but all the rest 
> involved raising the roof.
>
> Safety is a priority on the job site. So far, one contractor died as a 
> result of injuries received on the project. Larry Dale Hunt, 28, of 
> McDowell County died Oct. 22, 2009, while excavating broken concrete 
> at Tunnel #3 near Gray Eagle. NS Spokesman Robin Chapman said that 
> approximately 160 ton of materials fell on the excavator Hunt was 
> operating. Hunt was working for Johnson Western Gunite.
>
> When the project is finished, it will cut the mileage double-stacked 
> trains travel from Hampton Roads to Chicago by about 1,000 miles.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 19:18:28 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:18:28 -0500
Subject: As seen in Roanoke
References: <4B5D86D6.4090002@vt.edu> <198C787295AF4FCD9A27A5A38AE4FD33@Jimmy>
Message-ID: <B3224F4B59F34B94A071D8D2637E7E71@david9b433b3f4>

Sorry, error on my link.  Should be www.rrpicturearchives.net.  That is a huge site with numerous search options.  Instead of the link, Google "RTEX Locomotive Services".

David Lugar
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: NW Mailing List 
  Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 3:05 PM
  Subject: Re: As seen in Roanoke


  "I Googled RTEX Locomotive Services.  They are an equipment rebuilder located in Social Circle, GA. A link to www.rrpicturesarchives.net has photo album showing the 4005 and the 97 before repainting and a story about the Great Walton Covington Branch RR.
  I hope this helps.
  David Lugar"

  David,
      Sorry, but, your link went nowhere. I guess that I should have been more specific and asked why the units were named "Lilly", "Marlie" and "Piper"?

  Jimmy Lisle




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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 20:38:03 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 20:38:03 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Autos and diners
Message-ID: <807315C964A24305A041B1784962B424@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
August 16, 1910

IN CITY AND COALFIELD
------
"Col. Tierney Buys Automobile"
    Col. L. K. Tierney, of Powhatan, has purchased a "Chalmers 40" which he will keep in this city for use here until the good roads planned in this section are completed.  The car is to be delivered by the first of September or else it will not be shipped this year.  The sale was made by the Mercer County Automobile Company.  Mr. Tierney's purchase shows what good roads will do for this section and is only another argument for good roads in Mercer and McDowell counties.  At the present rate of construction McDowell will shortly lead this county in the matter of roads unless the people of Mercer county get busy and get their talking plans to work.
[This item is included here to reveal the status in 1910 of what would eventually become the principle contributor to the demise of the local passenger trains.  An earlier article listed the seven or eight automobiles in Bluefield in late summer 1910 and their owners (often doctors).  Others articles were like the one above in that the article announced each new automobile in Bluefield and its purchaser.]
------
Elegant Diners in Service
    The first of the new dining cars to pass through was in train No. 3 last night.  It is a steel bottom, three truck [three-axle truck?] car, fitted with electric lights and handsome in all its appointments.
------
Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Jan 26 21:53:44 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:53:44 -0500
Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 52, Issue 39
In-Reply-To: <mailman.84.1264537536.9641.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
References: <mailman.84.1264537536.9641.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <540e48701001261853ia96fb59qe96e1141c8075f87@mail.gmail.com>

What (if any) difference is there between a Sanatarium and Sanitorium?



> ?"Consumption" was an old name for Tuburculosis, which seemed to "consume" its victims.
>
> ?On another aspect of the story, It is kind of interesting to think of the sentimentality attached to a building that is all of 22 years old. Can any here imagine feeling nostalgia for a building built in 1988?
>
> ?Ken Miller
>
> ?On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:23 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>? ?Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?
>
> ? ?Thanks,
> ? ?Dave Willis
> ? ?(blt 1962, c/n 4)
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:07:13 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building
> To: "'NW Mailing List'" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <B1CB885A5E794171A1E4F0944FF63DA8 at LRPCMASTER>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> In 1908 the Commonwealth of Va appropriated $40,000 to establish the first
> Tuberculosis Sanitorium in Catawba, west of Roanoke. Did the N&W Catawba
> branch exist at least in part because of the sanitorium?
>
> Craig Close
> Balimer, Merlan
> OK: Far West Catonsville
> OR: Greater Oella
> ?_____
>
> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:43 AM
> To: 'NW Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building
> ?_____
>
> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:23 AM
> To: Norfolk Western Mailing List
> Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building
>
>>>Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?<<
>
> Consumption was the old name for tuberculosis, so consumptives were people
> with that disease. Before antibiotics, tuberculosis was essentially a death
> sentence. Mountain air was believed to ease the symptoms so TB sanitariums
> were frequently located in mountainous areas.
>
> Rob doorack

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 07:12:19 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 07:12:19 -0500
Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 52, Issue 39
In-Reply-To: <540e48701001261853ia96fb59qe96e1141c8075f87@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <084BD8A9B94B434190C882A5E651B2FB@YOUR37E34C38B1>

>>What (if any) difference is there between a Sanatarium and Sanitorium?<<

>From Wikipedia: 

"A sanatorium (also sanitorium, sanitarium) is a medical facility for
long-term illness, most typically associated with treatment of tuberculosis
(TB) before antibiotics. A distinction is sometimes made between
"sanitarium" (a kind of health resort, as in the Battle Creek Sanitarium)
and "sanatorium" (a hospital)."

Rob Doorack



From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 08:12:41 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:12:41 -0500
Subject: consumption
In-Reply-To: <8CC6CF4E0479C53-1120-44CD@web-mmc-d07.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8CC6CF4E0479C53-1120-44CD@web-mmc-d07.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B603BC9.6080505@verizon.net>

Consumption almost always meant (in the past) tuberculosis and it always 
means tuberculosis in the modern era (1920's on..0   While it is no 
longer the "White Plague", there are still about 15,000 cases a year, 
300+ in Virginia....I work part time as a TB Control doc for the 
Department of Health....Jim McDaniel

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 08:06:26 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:06:26 -0500
Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 52, Issue 39
In-Reply-To: <540e48701001261853ia96fb59qe96e1141c8075f87@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.84.1264537536.9641.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
	<540e48701001261853ia96fb59qe96e1141c8075f87@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5788BAEF8B274CF09F3A622052E6CCCB@LRPCMASTER>

And there are other variations of the spelling.
While there seems to be no official difference in meaning, "torium" is often
used for a rehab 'resort' and "tarium" is a true health facility, such as
for TB. 


Craig Close
Balimer, Merlan
OK: Far West Catonsville
OR: Greater Oella 

-----Original Message-----
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 9:54 PM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 52, Issue 39

What (if any) difference is there between a Sanatarium and Sanitorium?



> ?"Consumption" was an old name for Tuburculosis, which seemed to "consume"
its victims.
>
> ?On another aspect of the story, It is kind of interesting to think of the
sentimentality attached to a building that is all of 22 years old. Can any
here imagine feeling nostalgia for a building built in 1988?
>
> ?Ken Miller
>
> ?On Jan 26, 2010, at 7:23 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>? ?Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?
>
> ? ?Thanks,
> ? ?Dave Willis
> ? ?(blt 1962, c/n 4)
>>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2010 12:07:13 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building
> To: "'NW Mailing List'" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <B1CB885A5E794171A1E4F0944FF63DA8 at LRPCMASTER>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> In 1908 the Commonwealth of Va appropriated $40,000 to establish the first
> Tuberculosis Sanitorium in Catawba, west of Roanoke. Did the N&W Catawba
> branch exist at least in part because of the sanitorium?
>
> Craig Close
> Balimer, Merlan
> OK: Far West Catonsville
> OR: Greater Oella
> ?_____
>
> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 8:43 AM
> To: 'NW Mailing List'
> Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building
> ?_____
>
> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 7:23 AM
> To: Norfolk Western Mailing List
> Subject: RE: N&W in 1910--Office building
>
>>>Anyone know what a "home for consumptives" is?<<
>
> Consumption was the old name for tuberculosis, so consumptives were people
> with that disease. Before antibiotics, tuberculosis was essentially a
death
> sentence. Mountain air was believed to ease the symptoms so TB sanitariums
> were frequently located in mountainous areas.
>
> Rob doorack
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 08:22:37 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:22:37 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Office building
In-Reply-To: <COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
References: <67E147ACC51D4317B49709368D7F7318@DellVostro>
	<COL103-W242E4CA88C5F026A303325AF5E0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4B603E1D.5060901@verizon.net>

A home for consumptives would be a dwelling place for patients with 
tuberculosis -- also known as a sanitarium (or sanitorium...which was 
also used as a synonym for a mental hospital....)

These were usual rest homes in the mountains where one went to recover 
or not, from TB or consumption.  Early on, they were private, the states 
took over in the early 1900's -- Catawba, Blue Ridge and Burkeville were 
the three in Virginia. All are gone but three remain nationwide 
(Colorado, Texas and Florida) as medications have replaced rest cures. 

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 10:55:29 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 07:55:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Heartland Corridor Project
Message-ID: <772013.42352.qm@web111214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Sadly, what is happening to most of the tunnels is a butchering of the portals?they look like a 5 year old with a chisel notched the tops to make a corner rather than make a nice smooth but higher surface.? I wrote to NS about what happened to the Roderfield tunnels and got something back about saving millions and coming in 8 months ahead of schedule?it?s a shame that railroading is a business?I do think they disrespected history when they could have done so much to preserve it.
Mike Shockley
N&W Guyandotte Division (in HO Scale)


      
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 12:45:56 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:45:56 -0500
Subject: Heartland Corridor Project
In-Reply-To: <772013.42352.qm@web111214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <772013.42352.qm@web111214.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4B607BD4.50003@carolina.rr.com>

NW Mailing List wrote:
> Sadly, what is happening to most of the tunnels is a butchering of the 
> portals???they look like a 5 year old with a chisel notched the tops to 
> make a corner rather than make a nice smooth but higher surface.  I 
> wrote to NS about what happened to the Roderfield tunnels and got 
> something back about saving millions and coming in 8 months ahead of 
> schedule???it???s a shame that railroading is a business???I do think 
> they disrespected history when they could have done so much to preserve it.
> 
> Mike Shockley
> 
> N&W Guyandotte Division (in HO Scale)

History has no fiscal value to a cutthroat corporate entity like Norfolk 
Southern, unfortunately.  It's the same reason why NS sees absolutely no 
reason to operate steam locomotives, maintain old offices, or even try 
to understand the logic behind past rules and practices.

Personally, I agree with you, and I would like to see more of the 
railroad's history preserved.  They recently demolished the brick 
Southern Ry. roundhouse in Greensboro, NC, because it was in the way and 
too costly to bother repairing.  They demolished the beautiful 
Reidsville, NC depot several years ago for the same reason.  But what 
difference does that make to NS?  The structures were costing them money 
and making none.

For what it's worth, railroading has always been a business, with 
cost/benefit driving the decisions.  It's just a shame that the 
corporations have lost the notion that public goodwill, beauty as well 
as functionality, and historic preservation are all valuable to the 
society in which they must operate.
-- 
Kenneth Rickman - krickman1 at carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC

   CATS ARE CATS ... THE WORLD OVER!
    THESE INTELLIGENT, PEACE-LOVING
  FOUR-FOOTED FRIENDS--WHO ARE WITHOUT
PREJUDICE, WITHOUT HATE, WITHOUT GREED--
     MAY SOMEDAY TEACH US SOMETHING.
            --THE QWILL PEN

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 13:14:09 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:14:09 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?b?UkU6SGVhcnRsYW5kIENvcnJpZG9yIFByb2plY3Q=?=
Message-ID: <201001271814.o0RIEbtk010178@imr-da02.mx.aol.com>

Mike,

I totally agree with what you say about the way the tunnels have been altered. I guess this is what photographs, movie films and memories are for. As you say the railroads, and in our case NS, are run as businesses and must be in a constant drive to improve, streamline, review, grow and so on and so forth.

Yes the corridor project is radically altering the look and aesthetics of the tunnels in question but there are other tunnels around the US especially abandoned ones which remain unaltered. It's just unfortunate that some of the 19th and early 20th century engineering works were so impressive and memorable that they have become something special in their own right and not just part of a transportation system built by businessmen to make a return on their investors' money.

Best regards,

Cameron Tyre

NS shareholder

Sent from my Norfolk Southern ThoroughbredBerry on O2-UK

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 13:27:29 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:27:29 +0000
Subject: =?utf-8?b?UkU6UmU6IE4mVyBpbiAxOTEwLS1PZmZpY2UgYnVpbGRpbmc=?=
Message-ID: <201001271830.o0RIU0vq021086@imr-da01.mx.aol.com>

Sadly a new totally drug free strain arrived in the US approximately 6 months ago. Authorities are so worried about it that it was kept secret from press and tv for 5 months. It arrived via a student from Peru. I guess they may have to build some new sanitoriums which is not a nice thought.

Cameron

Sent from my Norfolk Southern ThoroughbredBerry on O2-UK

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 13:43:59 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:43:59 -0500
Subject: Heartland Corridor Project
In-Reply-To: <201001271814.o0RIEbtk010178@imr-da02.mx.aol.com>
References: <201001271814.o0RIEbtk010178@imr-da02.mx.aol.com>
Message-ID: <eadb39f31001271043x2fa2f756gacd9c23d476f66cb@mail.gmail.com>

I don't agree.  I think NS is doing what they should be doing as a
business.  The tunnels needed to be altered because of change s in the NS
traffic mix.  Also NS has done a great deal of preservation.  Consider all
of what NS has donated to our archives and the space they let us use in the
GOB in Roanoke.  If they weren't a successful railroad do you think they
would do these things for the N&WHS!

John Rhodes

On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 1:14 PM, NW Mailing List
<nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>wrote:

> Mike,
>
> I totally agree with what you say about the way the tunnels have been
> altered. I guess this is what photographs, movie films and memories are for.
> As you say the railroads, and in our case NS, are run as businesses and must
> be in a constant drive to improve, streamline, review, grow and so on and so
> forth.
>
> Yes the corridor project is radically altering the look and aesthetics of
> the tunnels in question but there are other tunnels around the US especially
> abandoned ones which remain unaltered. It's just unfortunate that some of
> the 19th and early 20th century engineering works were so impressive and
> memorable that they have become something special in their own right and not
> just part of a transportation system built by businessmen to make a return
> on their investors' money.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Cameron Tyre
>
> NS shareholder
>
> Sent from my Norfolk Southern ThoroughbredBerry on O2-UK
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 14:06:00 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 14:06:00 EST
Subject: Norfolk Southern History
Message-ID: <36d9e.12dc0865.3891e898@aol.com>

I have to take exception to this comment. Norfolk Southern not running  
steam has nothing to do with whether or not they are interested in history.  
Norfolk Southern quit running steam excursions due to liability. I have heard  
this first hand from top NS management at the time. I was involved in  some 
meetings with NS to preserve the steam program. After the  
derailment/accident in Lynchburg, VA in 1994 they realized that if that train  had been full 
of school kids there would not be enough money to cover all of  those blood 
sucking lawsuits that would follow. Blood sucking is my description,  not 
NS's. I believe in compensation after an accident but these settlements  
these days are outrageous.
 
Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are interested  
in history. They often support our historic organizations. The reason they 
often  tear down unused structures is to avoid property taxes.
 
Thanks,
 
Richard D. Shell
Troutville, VA
 
 
In a message dated 1/27/2010 1:38:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

It's the  same reason why NS sees absolutely no 
reason to operate steam  locomotives,
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 16:30:43 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:30:43 -0500
Subject: Norfolk Southern History
In-Reply-To: <36d9e.12dc0865.3891e898@aol.com>
References: <36d9e.12dc0865.3891e898@aol.com>
Message-ID: <4B60B083.30400@verizon.net>

I have to agree with Richard versus the other, earlier comment.
But to put my own cynical spin on it, it's all about the bottom line.
Is avoiding lawsuits part of the bottom line?
Of course it is. But it is those exec's duty to their stock holders.
It is first and foremost a business, and not one known for it's great 
return (percentage).

Tom Cosgrove

NW Mailing List wrote:
> I have to take exception to this comment. Norfolk Southern not running 
> steam has nothing to do with whether or not they are interested in 
> history. Norfolk Southern quit running steam excursions due to 
> liability. I have heard this first hand from top NS management at the 
> time. I was involved in some meetings with NS to preserve the steam 
> program. After the derailment/accident in Lynchburg, VA in 1994 they 
> realized that if that train had been full of school kids there would 
> not be enough money to cover all of those blood sucking lawsuits that 
> would follow. Blood sucking is my description, not NS's. I believe in 
> compensation after an accident but these settlements these days are 
> outrageous.
>  
> Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are 
> interested in history. They often support our historic organizations. 
> The reason they often tear down unused structures is to avoid property 
> taxes.
>  
> Thanks,
>  
> Richard D. Shell
> Troutville, VA
>  
> In a message dated 1/27/2010 1:38:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
>
>     It's the same reason why NS sees absolutely no
>     reason to operate steam locomotives,
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 16:39:02 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:39:02 -0500
Subject: Norfolk Southern History
References: <36d9e.12dc0865.3891e898@aol.com>
Message-ID: <01ec01ca9f99$25652a00$2a01a8c0@judy2a11867152>

Remember when the Employee Special derailed in the swamp? I bet the bill for that one was high!!!


Walt

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 2:06 PM
  Subject: Norfolk Southern History


  I have to take exception to this comment. Norfolk Southern not running steam has nothing to do with whether or not they are interested in history. Norfolk Southern quit running steam excursions due to liability. I have heard this first hand from top NS management at the time. I was involved in some meetings with NS to preserve the steam program. After the derailment/accident in Lynchburg, VA in 1994 they realized that if that train had been full of school kids there would not be enough money to cover all of those blood sucking lawsuits that would follow. Blood sucking is my description, not NS's. I believe in compensation after an accident but these settlements these days are outrageous.

  Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are interested in history. They often support our historic organizations. The reason they often tear down unused structures is to avoid property taxes.

  Thanks,

  Richard D. Shell
  Troutville, VA

  In a message dated 1/27/2010 1:38:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
    It's the same reason why NS sees absolutely no 
    reason to operate steam locomotives,


------------------------------------------------------------------------------


  ________________________________________
  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
  To change your subscription go to
  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
  Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 17:34:17 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:34:17 -0500
Subject: Heartland Corridor Project
In-Reply-To: <eadb39f31001271043x2fa2f756gacd9c23d476f66cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201001271814.o0RIEbtk010178@imr-da02.mx.aol.com>
	<eadb39f31001271043x2fa2f756gacd9c23d476f66cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <04F1DF013003034193915EE0CCEA9A910139046B29@SWEC9924.w-intra.net>

The primary function of management is to increase shareholder's wealth.  Norfolk Southern is a very well managed corporation with the right balance of priorities.  I very much enjoy my railroad related interests and hobbies and wish some things like the these tunnel portals that I've seen very often in person railfanning  over the years......... that have so long been a part of the N&W didn't have to change.....  but as a NS shareholder I appreciate NS's efforts and look forward to the double stack traffic to soon follow.  It will have a positive effect it on my investment in NS.  This is what railroading is ultimately about.

Ed Painter;  from Narrows, VA currently living in Russellville, AR

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 12:44 PM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Heartland Corridor Project

I don't agree.  I think NS is doing what they should be doing as a business.  The tunnels needed to be altered because of change s in the NS traffic mix.  Also NS has done a great deal of preservation.  Consider all of what NS has donated to our archives and the space they let us use in the GOB in Roanoke.  If they weren't a successful railroad do you think they would do these things for the N&WHS!

John Rhodes
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 1:14 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>> wrote:
Mike,

I totally agree with what you say about the way the tunnels have been altered. I guess this is what photographs, movie films and memories are for. As you say the railroads, and in our case NS, are run as businesses and must be in a constant drive to improve, streamline, review, grow and so on and so forth.

Yes the corridor project is radically altering the look and aesthetics of the tunnels in question but there are other tunnels around the US especially abandoned ones which remain unaltered. It's just unfortunate that some of the 19th and early 20th century engineering works were so impressive and memorable that they have become something special in their own right and not just part of a transportation system built by businessmen to make a return on their investors' money.

Best regards,

Cameron Tyre

NS shareholder

Sent from my Norfolk Southern ThoroughbredBerry on O2-UK
________________________________________
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 18:02:00 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:02:00 -0500
Subject: Heartland Corridor Project
In-Reply-To: <eadb39f31001271043x2fa2f756gacd9c23d476f66cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201001271814.o0RIEbtk010178@imr-da02.mx.aol.com>
	<eadb39f31001271043x2fa2f756gacd9c23d476f66cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CC6DBBDDC32416-30E4-46FF@webmail-d098.sysops.aol.com>



"High design" like beautiful tunnel portals, handsome viaducts, architecturally attractive stations, isn't important since passenger service is gone. The RR's contributed mightily to fashionable design in the past. But their design objective nowadays is pure, low cost functionality. The stockholders I think expect that. Regrettably, remnants of the age of high design, if they survive at all, get "converted" brutally. It ain't pretty. Pure functionality, though, isn't necessarily ugly - it's just functional.

My impression is that our society has become a preferred alternative for a thoughtful manager when they are confronted with destroying or saving something. NS has been good about that. As a practical (and usually financial) matter, it's simple for us to be there when they are about to throw away a pile of books, but not so simple when they need to remove a building. At best, we can be their source on historic significance and perhaps delay demolition. Unfortunately, tunnel portals (and there are some beauties out there - Sand Patch comes to mind) aren't on many preservationist's lists.

Ted Goodman

-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Wed, Jan 27, 2010 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: Heartland Corridor Project


I don't agree.  I think NS is doing what they should be doing as a business.  The tunnels needed to be altered because of change s in the NS traffic mix.  Also NS has done a great deal of preservation.  Consider all of what NS has donated to our archives and the space they let us use in the GOB in Roanoke.  If they weren't a successful railroad do you think they would do these things for the N&WHS!

John Rhodes


On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 1:14 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Mike,

I totally agree with what you say about the way the tunnels have been altered. I guess this is what photographs, movie films and memories are for. As you say the railroads, and in our case NS, are run as businesses and must be in a constant drive to improve, streamline, review, grow and so on and so forth.

Yes the corridor project is radically altering the look and aesthetics of the tunnels in question but there are other tunnels around the US especially abandoned ones which remain unaltered. It's just unfortunate that some of the 19th and early 20th century engineering works were so impressive and memorable that they have become something special in their own right and not just part of a transportation system built by businessmen to make a return on their investors' money.

Best regards,

Cameron Tyre

NS shareholder

Sent from my Norfolk Southern ThoroughbredBerry on O2-UK


________________________________________
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To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/





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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 18:39:26 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:39:26 -0500
Subject: And what about the long shadow removed when Graham Claytor passed 
	away?
Message-ID: <540e48701001271539k123ea111t6e2d32412e0f3af@mail.gmail.com>

And no one has even mentioned the long shadow of the Claytor's being
removed when the last Claytor, Graham passed away in May 1994. I have
been told THAT, too was a major factor as well as the liability issue
and NS's desire to acquire Conrail which they eyes on even before
1994, but the upturn in business was upsetting the steam applecart.

Bob Cohen


> I have to take exception to this comment. Norfolk Southern not running
> steam has nothing to do with whether or not they are interested in history.
> Norfolk Southern quit running steam excursions due to liability. I have heard
> this first hand from top NS management at the time. I was involved in ?some
> meetings with NS to preserve the steam program. After the derailment/accident in Lynchburg, VA in 1994 they realized that if that train ?had been full of school kids there would not be enough money to cover all of ?those blood sucking lawsuits that would follow. Blood sucking is my description, ?not NS's. I believe in compensation after an accident but these settlements these days are outrageous.
>
> Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are interested
> in history. They often support our historic organizations. The reason they
> often ?tear down unused structures is to avoid property taxes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard D. Shell
> Troutville, VA
>
>
> In a message dated 1/27/2010 1:38:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
>
> It's the same reason why NS sees absolutely no
> reason to operate steam locomotives,
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:39:02 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Norfolk Southern History
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <01ec01ca9f99$25652a00$2a01a8c0 at judy2a11867152>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Remember when the Employee Special derailed in the swamp? I bet the bill for that one was high!!!
>
>
> Walt
>
> ?----- Original Message -----
> ?From: NW Mailing List
> ?To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> ?Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2010 2:06 PM
> ?Subject: Norfolk Southern History
>
>
> ?I have to take exception to this comment. Norfolk Southern not running steam has nothing to do with whether or not they are interested in history. Norfolk Southern quit running steam excursions due to liability. I have heard this first hand from top NS management at the time. I was involved in some meetings with NS to preserve the steam program. After the derailment/accident in Lynchburg, VA in 1994 they realized that if that train had been full of school kids there would not be enough money to cover all of those blood sucking lawsuits that would follow. Blood sucking is my description, not NS's. I believe in compensation after an accident but these settlements these days are outrageous.
>
> ?Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are interested in history. They often support our historic organizations. The reason they often tear down unused structures is to avoid property taxes.
>
> ?Thanks,
>
> ?Richard D. Shell
> ?Troutville, VA
>
> ?In a message dated 1/27/2010 1:38:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
> ? ?It's the same reason why NS sees absolutely no
> ? ?reason to operate steam locomotives,
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 16:30:43 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Norfolk Southern History
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <4B60B083.30400 at verizon.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> I have to agree with Richard versus the other, earlier comment.
> But to put my own cynical spin on it, it's all about the bottom line.
> Is avoiding lawsuits part of the bottom line?
> Of course it is. But it is those exec's duty to their stock holders.
> It is first and foremost a business, and not one known for it's great
> return (percentage).
>
> Tom Cosgrove
>
> NW Mailing List wrote:
>> I have to take exception to this comment. Norfolk Southern not running
>> steam has nothing to do with whether or not they are interested in
>> history. Norfolk Southern quit running steam excursions due to
>> liability. I have heard this first hand from top NS management at the
>> time. I was involved in some meetings with NS to preserve the steam
>> program. After the derailment/accident in Lynchburg, VA in 1994 they
>> realized that if that train had been full of school kids there would
>> not be enough money to cover all of those blood sucking lawsuits that
>> would follow. Blood sucking is my description, not NS's. I believe in
>> compensation after an accident but these settlements these days are
>> outrageous.
>>
>> Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are
>> interested in history. They often support our historic organizations.
>> The reason they often tear down unused structures is to avoid property
>> taxes.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Richard D. Shell
>> Troutville, VA

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Jan 27 20:33:55 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 20:33:55 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Roundhouse
Message-ID: <28F655AE32CF48DA883FC1D9F7FBA270@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
August 16, 1910

ADDITION TO ROUNDHOUSE TO COST $36,000
------
Norfolk and Western Also Plans Increase in Size of Local Division Offices
    The Norfolk and Western has started grading for the addition which is to be made to the roundhouse at a cost of about $36,000.  The addition will consist of twenty-nine feet all the way around the building, which will give the engines ninety-three feet under roof.  This will enable the road to stable the Mallet engines as well as largely increasing the holding capacity of the present stalls, which will be able to hold more engines. Work on the addition will start at once.
    The railroad company also plans to start work the latter part of this month on an addition to the division office which will cost in the neighborhood of $9,000.  This addition is intended to accommodate the Pocahontas Coal and Coke Company offices which will be moved to this city between the time the building is finished and the first of January.  The present plans call for the removal of the offices as soon as the building is finished, but unexpected delays may put off the coming of the company to this city.  Work on this addition to the division offices would be commenced at once but for a lack of material which will arrive shortly.  It is possible that arrangements may be made with the city by which additional land may be secured from the city for the proposed addition to the roundhouse, and inasmuch as the city is largely dependent on the Norfolk and Western at times for favors, which are given at cost and many times without cost, it is very likely that a satisfactory agreement can be reached by which the railroad can get about ten feet of land in the neighborhood of Hardy street which will be used for the enlarged roundhouse.
------
Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Jan 28 08:19:36 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:19:36 -0500
Subject: "Takin' Twenty with the Virginian Brethren"
Message-ID: <4B618EE8.7010806@vt.edu>

Last night I had the pleasure of "Takin' Twenty" with nine of the Brethren 
and Friends of the Virginian Railway. We signed a Birthday card for 
Virginian Brakeman and Conductor Ken McLain. Ken spent most of his time 
with the VGN RWY at Sewalls Point, and after the merger in 1959, felt that 
the N&W was not for him, so he went to work for GE. Ken is our "joke man" 
and supplies written Internet jokes for the Brethren to enjoy at each 
session. He and his wife own several properties and Ken spends most of his 
time "looking after his rentals". "Mac" turned 83 on Monday.

Recently I got an email from John Walker, Jr. of Norfolk, VA whose father 
"Johnny" Walker was a VGN machinist at Princeton. He was interested in 
where to find a G-4 T-Shirt, and I told him about our shirt man, Dal Cook 
of Lexington, NC. John grew up and went to school with our own Lloyd Lewis 
and was in the same Scout Troop. John remembered "watching the Railway 
Express workers unloading and loading stuff to and from the train to the 
express building". None of the Brethren knew VGN Machinist "Johnny" Walker.

Passed around was the last two Roanoke Chapter NRHS newsletters, "Turntable 
Times". The Nov-Dec issue highlighted a tribute to Elbert Miller who passed 
away Thanksgiving and an article by Kenney Kirkman "N&W takes over VGN 
Anniversary". The Jan-Feb issue has a photo of the old N&W station at Paint 
Bank on the cover. Also passed was a Wharton Separk photo off railpictures 
of an original Norfolk Southern train re-routed through Raleigh 10-14-73 on 
the old Seaboard Coast Line.

There has been a lot of discussion on this and the N&W site recently about 
"comsumption" and TB. Gibby Davis remembered when the TB Sanitarium was 
built at Catawba, VA in 1952. Gibby said "I've got a shed built from the 
lumber used for the concrete foundation at the Catawba Sanitarium". He 
recalled the old Catawba Valley Line right- of-way which is now part of 
State Route 311 which goes from Salem over the Catawba Mountain to the 
Sanitarium. "For a long time, the N&W brought coal for the hospital to the 
end of their spur at Thompson Memorial Drive and transferred it at their 
tipple to trucks to take it over the mountain".

I brought my latest Antique Shop purchase for "Show and Tell". It is a 
foundry pattern that was used to make Virginian Railway Trust Plates, two 
at a time. I have posted a photo of this unique VGN artifact on this site 
under "Skip's Photos". I wondered where the VGN actually made these plates. 
I contacted Russell McDaniel who told me that the VGN did not have a 
foundry in Princeton. Some of the Brethren suggested that they were 
possibly made in the Walker Foundry in Roanoke. Anyone out there have any 
information on where these Trust Plates may have been made, using my pattern?

The ebay report this time includes the following: 1945 VGN Timetable for 
$27.05; 1913 VGN pass for $15.50; Slide of VGN Steam engine and an Atlantic 
and Danville box car $22.72; Slide of EL-2B #127 went for
$29.99, and a 1948 VGN Annual Report sold at $23.49.

Wis Sowder brought old newspaper clippings showing two Roanoke County 
Sheriff's Deputies being killed by moonshiners with photos of the corpses 
still in the police car. The chase probably crossed the Virginian Railway 
tracks at Jefferson or Franklin in Roanoke on their way to the "Wettest 
County in the USA"...Franklin County, VA.

The "Jewel from the Past" like one in VGN Yardmaster Rufus Wingfield's 21 
jewel Elgin, B. W. Raymond that he got for $35 and a pint of "Three 
Feathers Whisky" is from April 1, 2004: VGN Clerk Jimmy Whittaker "told of 
a Virginian employee using his wife's annual pass to transport her (in her 
casket) from Roanoke to Princeton in a VGN box car". Russell "Slick" Inge, 
VGN Trainmaster said "the Virginian Railway routinely carried caskets for 
no charge".

Frank Breedlove, VGN Brakeman and Conductor always has colorful comments 
for our waitress, Princess. He was discussing his order of Captain Morgan 
shrimp when I asked a question that our friend Bob Cohen sent me recently: 
What disease did the "cured" ham once have? Without any hesitation, Frank 
replied "It must have been Swine Flu!"

Time to pull the pin on this one!

Departing Now from V248,

Skip Salmon

__._,_.___


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Jan 28 14:04:43 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 14:04:43 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Accident
Message-ID: <F3356F9E4EE24ACB991646CAF8BBC5A8@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
August 16, 1910

STRUCK BY TRAIN
------
Eugene Wade, Colored, Instantly Killed Monday Morning
    Eugene Wade, colored, was killed Sunday morning on the Coopers hill by the engine of train No. 4, which was driven by Engineer Morrisette.  General Superintendent George P. Johnson was on the engine when the fatal accident occurred.  It seems that Wade, who was about forty years of age, was standing on the track watching a train passing over the western viaduct at Coopers and did not hear the passenger train crawling up on him.  The curve and steep grade at Coopers prevented the engineer from seeing the man until he was upon him and Wade was instantly killed.  His remains were turned over to Ballard Wade, a relative, at Simmons, and prepared for burial.  The Norfolk and Western assumed the burial expenses and gave the body to the relatives at their request.  It was considered an unavoidable death and as the man was a trespasser no other report was made of it.
    Yesterday morning, however, the matter was again brought to the attention of the railroad authorities when the coffin containing the body was found on the station platform where it had been carried during the night by some of the people to whom it had been turned over.  The people at the station did not know what to do when they found a dead body had been left on their hands and the matter was reported to the offices in this city.  The local officials advised that the body be buried, which was done along the railroad right-of-way.  This is the first time in years that a body has been placed on the station platform unknown to the officials.  There have been a number of cases where relatives have refused to take the bodies of their relatives, but it is seldom that the body is returned after the relatives have accepted it and signified their intention of burying it.
------
[A Feb. 19, 1909, article posted on the Mailing List about two deaths on the tracks at Graham, VA, ended about one of them, " ...the railroad company gave the body a decent burial on their right of way near the west end tower where sleep a number of unfortunates who met death in a similar manner and were buried by the company."  I speculated then, "I wonder how many instances of bones being found occurred on the N&W during later-day excavations for utilities, etc."]

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Jan 28 16:51:02 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 16:51:02 -0500
Subject: Norfolk Southern History
Message-ID: <4B6206C6.4040103@vt.edu>

NW Mailing List wrote:
 > Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are 
interested in history. They often support our historic organizations.

Not to be too cynical about it, but I have trouble believing that Norfolk 
Southern cares about ANYTHING other than the bottom line and quarterly 
dividends for the shareholders.  If they are supporting historic 
organizations, it is because it's a great way to make the bottom line look 
good at the end of the quarter.  They made low interest loans available to 
employees who lost their homes in the Atlanta floods.  Was that corporate 
goodwill, or trying to keep from having to re-hire and re-train to replace 
employees who had no place to live?  Being "good" can often be profitable - 
it's still good, but the motive is less so, and deplorable when the result 
is presented to the world as charitable.

By contrast, Union Pacific makes an effort to display, share, and take 
pride in its own heritage.  I'm sure it costs money, but I think the 
public, and definitely the model railroad and railfan communities, 
appreciate the heritage paint schemes and active steam program.  I cannot 
comment as an insider there, as I can for NS, but I get the impression that 
they value their image in the world, and actually do care about their own 
history.
-- 
Kenneth Rickman - krickman1 at carolina.rr.com
Salisbury, NC

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Jan 28 16:52:53 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 16:52:53 -0500
Subject: Norfolk Southern History
Message-ID: <4B620735.7060904@vt.edu>

Mr. Shell, I certainly respect your inside knowledge of the decision to end 
the Norfolk Southern Steam Program. However, I must clarify that the " 
derailment of 1994" was actually caused by a train that was mistakenly 
shoving on the same track occupied by the excursion coaches. A track that 
was clearly closed by railroad rule book standards. A track that was 
REQUIRED to be protected against any movement by an employee. Norfolk 
Southern Operating Rule number 508. "When directing a move by radio 
communication, person directing the move, after establishing 
identification, will give engineer direction of move and distance seen to 
be clear. When one-half the last distance received has been covered, 
engineer will stop the move unless he is receiving additional signal from 
person directing move. Exception: Commencing five car lengths before 
coupling or stop is to be made, person directing move will call out 
distances in car lengths, as: "five cars;" "four cars;" "three cars;" etc. 
after acknowledging "five cars," engineer will not be required to further 
acknowledge countdown if doing so would interfere with safe operation. 
During this countdown, engineer will stop the move immediately after moving 
one car length unless he is receiving additional signal from person 
directing move." The damage inflicted upon the excursion coaches was simply 
caused by  disregard for the rules by a careless employee. To speculate on 
the tort responsibility of  Norfolk Southern from  damage inflicted upon an 
empty train of coaches, at night, in a railroad yard, is pure fantasy. It 
seems that very few want to believe that Mr. Goode could have been so cold 
as to end the Steam Program for no visible reason, so the apologists create 
many different reasons, liability being one; the story about the school 
children running across the track to board 611's train in Apomattox, for 
instance. Isn't it strange that Mr. Robert Claytor was able to operate the 
Steam Program so sucessfully, while facing these same concerns. Isn't it 
strange that Union Pacific continues their excursions many years after 
1994. As I heard more than one person say, in 1994, after the end of the NS 
Steam Program was announced, "They waited untill Bob Claytor was in the 
ground, before they ended it." Look to Mr. Goode for the reasons it ended. 
Look to the Board members of that year. Look to the profit and loss sheets. 
Remember the end of steam on the N&W, so impatiently, and wastefully 
implemented by Stuart Saunders. It wasn't fear of lawsuits that brought an 
end to the NS Steam Program, it was greed. Also, to those of you who 
continually call for Norfolk Southern to pull 611 from the museum, you can 
forget it. Not in this or any other lifetime. I invite you to do as I, and 
please contribute to the maintenance and upkeep of 611, and 1218, on a 
regular basis. Thank You, Jim Flummer, former 611, and 1218 locomotive 
engineer.

> I have to take exception to this comment. Norfolk Southern not running steam has nothing to do with whether or not they are interested in history. Norfolk Southern quit running steam excursions due to liability. I have heard this first hand from top NS management at the time. I was involved in some meetings with NS to preserve the steam program. After the derailment/accident in Lynchburg, VA in 1994 they realized that if that train had been full of school kids there would not be enough money to cover all of those blood sucking lawsuits that would follow. Blood sucking is my description, not NS's. I believe in compensation after an accident but these settlements these days are outrageous.
>
> Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are interested in history. They often support our historic organizations. The reason they often tear down unused structures is to avoid property taxes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Richard D. Shell
> Troutville, VA
>
> In a message dated 1/27/2010 1:38:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
>
>     It's the same reason why NS sees absolutely no
>     reason to operate steam locomotives,


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Jan 28 17:51:40 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 15:51:40 -0700
Subject: Norfolk Southern History
References: <4B6206C6.4040103@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <90EFEE879CFD42FBA6486A734B55E69B@ownerc59ab9025>

I don't remember which magazine had an interview with Mr. Lee, who ran UP's 
Steam program at the time but Mr. Lee stated that he had to justify the 
expenditures for the steam program. It isn't carte blanche. If the steam 
program didn't benefit UP from a business point of view it wouldn't exist. I 
live in Albuquerque and every summer I take my grandson on UP's Frontier 
Days Steam excursion from Denver to Cheyenne and back. Nothing like getting 
coal ash in your face. There are over seven hundred seats available at a 
minimum of $325.00 per seat with dome cars costing about $375.00 and that 
doesn't even come close to what it costs UP to put on that shindig. Repeat 
riders get first dibs, but still all the seats are sold out within two hours 
of being made available to the general public. Also remember who got the US 
Government to put a hold on CN from grabbing up a number of small U.S. 
RRs.........NS.
John Lisica #2073
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: Norfolk Southern History


> NW Mailing List wrote:
> > Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are
> interested in history. They often support our historic organizations.
>
> Not to be too cynical about it, but I have trouble believing that Norfolk 
> Southern cares about ANYTHING other than the bottom line and quarterly 
> dividends for the shareholders.  If they are supporting historic 
> organizations, it is because it's a great way to make the bottom line look 
> good at the end of the quarter.  They made low interest loans available to 
> employees who lost their homes in the Atlanta floods.  Was that corporate 
> goodwill, or trying to keep from having to re-hire and re-train to replace 
> employees who had no place to live?  Being "good" can often be 
> profitable - it's still good, but the motive is less so, and deplorable 
> when the result is presented to the world as charitable.
>
> By contrast, Union Pacific makes an effort to display, share, and take 
> pride in its own heritage.  I'm sure it costs money, but I think the 
> public, and definitely the model railroad and railfan communities, 
> appreciate the heritage paint schemes and active steam program.  I cannot 
> comment as an insider there, as I can for NS, but I get the impression 
> that they value their image in the world, and actually do care about their 
> own history.
> -- 
> Kenneth Rickman - krickman1 at carolina.rr.com
> Salisbury, NC
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ 


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Jan 28 22:40:44 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 22:40:44 -0500
Subject: Fw: Norfolk Southern History
Message-ID: <9FCEE44A44D74910A4E4F9989BA4938C@MillsPC>

A little question to the writer who went on UP's Frontier Days.  He said 
there was nothing like getting coal dust in his face.  Doesn't the UP steam 
program use OIL?  The reason I say this is due to the UP steam engine that 
was renumbered for the Clinchfield one year for the Santa Train.  Don Mills
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: Norfolk Southern History


>I don't remember which magazine had an interview with Mr. Lee, who ran UP's 
>Steam program at the time but Mr. Lee stated that he had to justify the 
>expenditures for the steam program. It isn't carte blanche. If the steam 
>program didn't benefit UP from a business point of view it wouldn't exist. 
>I live in Albuquerque and every summer I take my grandson on UP's Frontier 
>Days Steam excursion from Denver to Cheyenne and back. Nothing like getting 
>coal ash in your face. There are over seven hundred seats available at a 
>minimum of $325.00 per seat with dome cars costing about $375.00 and that 
>doesn't even come close to what it costs UP to put on that shindig. Repeat 
>riders get first dibs, but still all the seats are sold out within two 
>hours of being made available to the general public. Also remember who got 
>the US Government to put a hold on CN from grabbing up a number of small 
>U.S. RRs.........NS.
> John Lisica #2073
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 2:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Norfolk Southern History
>
>
>> NW Mailing List wrote:
>> > Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are
>> interested in history. They often support our historic organizations.
>>
>> Not to be too cynical about it, but I have trouble believing that Norfolk 
>> Southern cares about ANYTHING other than the bottom line and quarterly 
>> dividends for the shareholders.  If they are supporting historic 
>> organizations, it is because it's a great way to make the bottom line 
>> look good at the end of the quarter.  They made low interest loans 
>> available to employees who lost their homes in the Atlanta floods.  Was 
>> that corporate goodwill, or trying to keep from having to re-hire and 
>> re-train to replace employees who had no place to live?  Being "good" can 
>> often be profitable - it's still good, but the motive is less so, and 
>> deplorable when the result is presented to the world as charitable.
>>
>> By contrast, Union Pacific makes an effort to display, share, and take 
>> pride in its own heritage.  I'm sure it costs money, but I think the 
>> public, and definitely the model railroad and railfan communities, 
>> appreciate the heritage paint schemes and active steam program.  I cannot 
>> comment as an insider there, as I can for NS, but I get the impression 
>> that they value their image in the world, and actually do care about 
>> their own history.
>> -- 
>> Kenneth Rickman - krickman1 at carolina.rr.com
>> Salisbury, NC
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
> 


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Fri Jan 29 10:15:02 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:15:02 -0700
Subject: Norfolk Southern History
References: <9FCEE44A44D74910A4E4F9989BA4938C@MillsPC>
Message-ID: <E8A46750FF744568A11A2E9C10CCC4F7@ownerc59ab9025>

Don,
I stand corrected, the exuberance of standing between cars and getting soot 
in your face made me think of coal. Thanks for the correction.
John Lisica
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "nW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 8:40 PM
Subject: Fw: Norfolk Southern History


>A little question to the writer who went on UP's Frontier Days.  He said 
>there was nothing like getting coal dust in his face.  Doesn't the UP steam 
>program use OIL?  The reason I say this is due to the UP steam engine that 
>was renumbered for the Clinchfield one year for the Santa Train.  Don Mills
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 5:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Norfolk Southern History
>
>
>>I don't remember which magazine had an interview with Mr. Lee, who ran 
>>UP's Steam program at the time but Mr. Lee stated that he had to justify 
>>the expenditures for the steam program. It isn't carte blanche. If the 
>>steam program didn't benefit UP from a business point of view it wouldn't 
>>exist. I live in Albuquerque and every summer I take my grandson on UP's 
>>Frontier Days Steam excursion from Denver to Cheyenne and back. Nothing 
>>like getting coal ash in your face. There are over seven hundred seats 
>>available at a minimum of $325.00 per seat with dome cars costing about 
>>$375.00 and that doesn't even come close to what it costs UP to put on 
>>that shindig. Repeat riders get first dibs, but still all the seats are 
>>sold out within two hours of being made available to the general public. 
>>Also remember who got the US Government to put a hold on CN from grabbing 
>>up a number of small U.S. RRs.........NS.
>> John Lisica #2073
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 2:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: Norfolk Southern History
>>
>>
>>> NW Mailing List wrote:
>>> > Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are
>>> interested in history. They often support our historic organizations.
>>>
>>> Not to be too cynical about it, but I have trouble believing that 
>>> Norfolk Southern cares about ANYTHING other than the bottom line and 
>>> quarterly dividends for the shareholders.  If they are supporting 
>>> historic organizations, it is because it's a great way to make the 
>>> bottom line look good at the end of the quarter.  They made low interest 
>>> loans available to employees who lost their homes in the Atlanta floods. 
>>> Was that corporate goodwill, or trying to keep from having to re-hire 
>>> and re-train to replace employees who had no place to live?  Being 
>>> "good" can often be profitable - it's still good, but the motive is less 
>>> so, and deplorable when the result is presented to the world as 
>>> charitable.
>>>
>>> By contrast, Union Pacific makes an effort to display, share, and take 
>>> pride in its own heritage.  I'm sure it costs money, but I think the 
>>> public, and definitely the model railroad and railfan communities, 
>>> appreciate the heritage paint schemes and active steam program.  I 
>>> cannot comment as an insider there, as I can for NS, but I get the 
>>> impression that they value their image in the world, and actually do 
>>> care about their own history.
>>> -- 
>>> Kenneth Rickman - krickman1 at carolina.rr.com
>>> Salisbury, NC
>>> ________________________________________
>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>>> To change your subscription go to
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ 


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Fri Jan 29 09:12:22 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 09:12:22 -0500
Subject: Norfolk Southern History
In-Reply-To: <9FCEE44A44D74910A4E4F9989BA4938C@MillsPC>
References: <9FCEE44A44D74910A4E4F9989BA4938C@MillsPC>
Message-ID: <B2124859482C4DDE81C3D2C080D81C68@NelsonPC>

Yes, the UP steam engines are oil fired.

Nelson Burks

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "nW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 10:40 PM
Subject: Fw: Norfolk Southern History


>A little question to the writer who went on UP's Frontier Days.  He said 
>there was nothing like getting coal dust in his face.  Doesn't the UP steam 
>program use OIL?  The reason I say this is due to the UP steam engine that 
>was renumbered for the Clinchfield one year for the Santa Train.  Don Mills
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 5:51 PM
> Subject: Re: Norfolk Southern History
>
>
>>I don't remember which magazine had an interview with Mr. Lee, who ran 
>>UP's Steam program at the time but Mr. Lee stated that he had to justify 
>>the expenditures for the steam program. It isn't carte blanche. If the 
>>steam program didn't benefit UP from a business point of view it wouldn't 
>>exist. I live in Albuquerque and every summer I take my grandson on UP's 
>>Frontier Days Steam excursion from Denver to Cheyenne and back. Nothing 
>>like getting coal ash in your face. There are over seven hundred seats 
>>available at a minimum of $325.00 per seat with dome cars costing about 
>>$375.00 and that doesn't even come close to what it costs UP to put on 
>>that shindig. Repeat riders get first dibs, but still all the seats are 
>>sold out within two hours of being made available to the general public. 
>>Also remember who got the US Government to put a hold on CN from grabbing 
>>up a number of small U.S. RRs.........NS.
>> John Lisica #2073
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 2:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: Norfolk Southern History
>>
>>
>>> NW Mailing List wrote:
>>> > Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are
>>> interested in history. They often support our historic organizations.
>>>
>>> Not to be too cynical about it, but I have trouble believing that 
>>> Norfolk Southern cares about ANYTHING other than the bottom line and 
>>> quarterly dividends for the shareholders.  If they are supporting 
>>> historic organizations, it is because it's a great way to make the 
>>> bottom line look good at the end of the quarter.  They made low interest 
>>> loans available to employees who lost their homes in the Atlanta floods. 
>>> Was that corporate goodwill, or trying to keep from having to re-hire 
>>> and re-train to replace employees who had no place to live?  Being 
>>> "good" can often be profitable - it's still good, but the motive is less 
>>> so, and deplorable when the result is presented to the world as 
>>> charitable.
>>>
>>> By contrast, Union Pacific makes an effort to display, share, and take 
>>> pride in its own heritage.  I'm sure it costs money, but I think the 
>>> public, and definitely the model railroad and railfan communities, 
>>> appreciate the heritage paint schemes and active steam program.  I 
>>> cannot comment as an insider there, as I can for NS, but I get the 
>>> impression that they value their image in the world, and actually do 
>>> care about their own history.
>>> -- 
>>> Kenneth Rickman - krickman1 at carolina.rr.com
>>> Salisbury, NC
>>> ________________________________________
>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>>> To change your subscription go to
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ 


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sat Jan 30 11:48:12 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 11:48:12 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--The C&O in Bluefield
Message-ID: <CA087A1D14BF420BA0AE671CEE83F36C@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
Editorial
August 17, 1910

GO AFTER THE CHESAPEAKE AND OHIO
------
    The Roanoke World learns that the Chesapeake and Ohio Railway is planning an entrance into Roanoke, Va., from Eagle Rock and that already rights of way has [sic] been purchased for such a route to Roanoke.  The building of the line would be of a decided advantage to Roanoke and there is no reason why the road could not extend to this city if the business men of the section would study the question properly and submit it to the Chesapeake and Ohio officials.  The road could be built from Roanoke to Radford, and from that town to this city could build a road which would be twenty miles shorter than the Norfolk and Western route.  The route would take the road through Bland county, where it could touch the tremendously wealthy Wolf Creek section, as well as the coal, iron and other minerals of that region.  From Bland it could come to this city through the East River mountain, the only tunnel it would be necessary to build, and from here it could go out through Graham to a point on the Clinch Valley where another tunnel would give it a chance to get into the coal lands of Buchanan county, from where it would easily connect up with the present Big Sandy branch, from which branch it is claimed that road is trying to get entrance to the coal of Buchanan county.
    Bluefield lost the Virginian by not keeping awake.  Will it now lose a chance at least to find out whether it would be possible to interest the Chesapeake and Ohio Railway, which could do the section even more good than the Virginian, as the Chesapeake and Ohio has western connections which give it a direct line to Chicago, as well as other far western connections?  With the Chesapeake and Ohio and the Norfolk and Western it would be an easy matter to force other roads to look favorably on this section with the result that Bluefield might see the future in which the wonderful natural resources of the section entitle it.
    A great many local people who read this will say it is another dream, but it is imagination backed up by hard work which has made every prosperous region in this or any other country.  It was a dream of a great future with religious freedom that made it possible for the Pilgrims to land on Plymouth Rock and make America what it is today.  It was a dream of a new and cheaper way to reach the wealth of the Indies which made it possible for Columbus to discover America, and it was the dream of wealth that put ?? [indistinct on microfilm] and big men at hard work to find gold at Panama.
    Nothing is impossible, as the Frenchman says, although it may be improbable.  Any engineer can prove by simple figures and a geological map that the Chesapeake and Ohio can build a line from Roanoke to connect up with its Big Sandy district in Kentucky cheaper than the present Norfolk and Western was built and the tonnage which would originate along such a line would be only limited by the road's ability to take care of it.
    Three years ago Major Page, who was at that time president of the Virginian Railway, stated to a Telegraph representative that the reasons why the Virginian did not come to this city was because the officials thought Bluefield was married to the Norfolk and Western.  This may be true enough, but if the Norfolk and Western stands in the way of progress in this city then we should divorce the Norfolk and Western on the grounds of incompatibility and allow the Chesapeake and Ohio to pay the alimony by building a line through Bluefield.
    Such a line can never be built if the Norfolk and Western is to be asked for advice, but must be secured by the men who are interested in the growth of the city to such as extent that they will be willing to make a try for the Chesapeake and Ohio.  It may be claimed that the Norfolk and Western can make it hard for shippers who take such a step, but the Norfolk and Western will not do so, and if it should there are always ways to secure relief.
    If the Chesapeake and Ohio plans a trip to Roanoke and one into Buchanan county, these two branches can be joined in Bluefield, which would be the only place for a division point.
------
Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sat Jan 30 21:56:29 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:56:29 -0500
Subject: Todays Shots
Message-ID: <4B64F15D.6060005@gmail.com>

Some Snow shots from today. Including some Ultra High ISO (12800) shots 
that were hand held after dark.
*http://tinyurl.com/wns01-30-2009*

Nathan

-- 
Nathan Simmons
trainman51 at gmail.com
http://www.t-51.org
KI4MSK


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sat Jan 30 22:33:39 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:33:39 -0500
Subject: Todays Shots
In-Reply-To: <4B64F15D.6060005@gmail.com>
References: <4B64F15D.6060005@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86548D38-3FB7-4E73-9BB0-56834EE8052F@verizon.net>

Link did not work for me!!


Walt


On Jan 30, 2010, at 9:56 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

> Some Snow shots from today. Including some Ultra High ISO (12800)  
> shots that were hand held after dark.
> *http://tinyurl.com/wns01-30-2009*
>
> Nathan
>
> -- 
> Nathan Simmons
> trainman51 at gmail.com
> http://www.t-51.org
> KI4MSK
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 01:39:09 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 01:39:09 -0500
Subject: Norfolk Southern History
References: <4B620735.7060904@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <CD90D577407743B387CEA0E29FDBDCBD@susan>

Mr. Flummer,

You say "To speculate on the tort responsibility of  Norfolk Southern from 
damage inflicted upon an empty train of coaches, at night, in a railroad 
yard, is pure fantasy."

To me, your statement only enforces NS's position. How many times have you 
heard an official say "what if"? And they will not budge from their 
argument. "What if the passenger train had been full? What if there was a 
hazmat involved?" No amount of argument, especially using "common sense", is 
going to change their mind. And the fact that an employee violated a rule, 
intentionally, or not, just proves their point that accidents happen, 
anytime, anyplace.

For better, or worse, the railroad, in this case Norfolk Southern (and David 
Goode) own the ball. They also make the rules, and they own the ball field. 
So, guess who gets to make the decisions? I'm not cutting Mr. Goode any 
slack, but, if he doesn't appreciate the history of his company enough to 
stick his neck out for it, it's still his call. And if he's not a "fan" (of 
steam, history, or whatever), it's our loss. He could care less. Our 
happiness, or attitude, isn't his responsibility. That's right, bottom line. 
I didn't like the decision any more than any other steam fan, but, 
unfortunately, Mr. Goode didn't call and ask for my opinion.

The first gentleman to broach this subject said something like "it's a shame 
that railroads are run like businesses". Well, excuse me; if the railroads 
hadn't been operated as businesses for the past 150 years, I guess we would 
all be out chasing, photographing and trying to run excursions on canal 
barges! Because there wouldn't be any railroads.

The railroads are not in business to please the public, nor to grant us our 
every whim. Just be thankful for every opportunity to see, ride and 
photograph any passenger train, steam or otherwise. Be grateful for every 
significant building saved, every tunnel not butchered, every piece of 
motive power preserved. NS has done much toward preserving railroad history, 
as mentioned by others here. But we are certainly not going to get all we 
want. And, it's a futile exercise to try to figure out their motives.

As the old folks say, "when you're given lemons, make lemonade".

Jeff Sanders

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: Norfolk Southern History


> Mr. Shell, I certainly respect your inside knowledge of the decision to 
> end the Norfolk Southern Steam Program. However, I must clarify that the " 
> derailment of 1994" was actually caused by a train that was mistakenly 
> shoving on the same track occupied by the excursion coaches. A track that 
> was clearly closed by railroad rule book standards. A track that was 
> REQUIRED to be protected against any movement by an employee. Norfolk 
> Southern Operating Rule number 508. "When directing a move by radio 
> communication, person directing the move, after establishing 
> identification, will give engineer direction of move and distance seen to 
> be clear. When one-half the last distance received has been covered, 
> engineer will stop the move unless he is receiving additional signal from 
> person directing move. Exception: Commencing five car lengths before 
> coupling or stop is to be made, person directing move will call out 
> distances in car lengths, as: "five cars;" "four cars;" "three cars;" etc. 
> after acknowledging "five cars," engineer will not be required to further 
> acknowledge countdown if doing so would interfere with safe operation. 
> During this countdown, engineer will stop the move immediately after 
> moving one car length unless he is receiving additional signal from person 
> directing move." The damage inflicted upon the excursion coaches was 
> simply caused by  disregard for the rules by a careless employee. To 
> speculate on the tort responsibility of  Norfolk Southern from  damage 
> inflicted upon an empty train of coaches, at night, in a railroad yard, is 
> pure fantasy. It seems that very few want to believe that Mr. Goode could 
> have been so cold as to end the Steam Program for no visible reason, so 
> the apologists create many different reasons, liability being one; the 
> story about the school children running across the track to board 611's 
> train in Apomattox, for instance. Isn't it strange that Mr. Robert Claytor 
> was able to operate the Steam Program so sucessfully, while facing these 
> same concerns. Isn't it strange that Union Pacific continues their 
> excursions many years after 1994. As I heard more than one person say, in 
> 1994, after the end of the NS Steam Program was announced, "They waited 
> untill Bob Claytor was in the ground, before they ended it." Look to Mr. 
> Goode for the reasons it ended. Look to the Board members of that year. 
> Look to the profit and loss sheets. Remember the end of steam on the N&W, 
> so impatiently, and wastefully implemented by Stuart Saunders. It wasn't 
> fear of lawsuits that brought an end to the NS Steam Program, it was 
> greed. Also, to those of you who continually call for Norfolk Southern to 
> pull 611 from the museum, you can forget it. Not in this or any other 
> lifetime. I invite you to do as I, and please contribute to the 
> maintenance and upkeep of 611, and 1218, on a regular basis. Thank You, 
> Jim Flummer, former 611, and 1218 locomotive engineer.
>
>> I have to take exception to this comment. Norfolk Southern not running 
>> steam has nothing to do with whether or not they are interested in 
>> history. Norfolk Southern quit running steam excursions due to liability. 
>> I have heard this first hand from top NS management at the time. I was 
>> involved in some meetings with NS to preserve the steam program. After 
>> the derailment/accident in Lynchburg, VA in 1994 they realized that if 
>> that train had been full of school kids there would not be enough money 
>> to cover all of those blood sucking lawsuits that would follow. Blood 
>> sucking is my description, not NS's. I believe in compensation after an 
>> accident but these settlements these days are outrageous.
>>
>> Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are 
>> interested in history. They often support our historic organizations. The 
>> reason they often tear down unused structures is to avoid property taxes.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Richard D. Shell
>> Troutville, VA
>>
>> In a message dated 1/27/2010 1:38:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
>> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
>>
>>     It's the same reason why NS sees absolutely no
>>     reason to operate steam locomotives,
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
> -- 
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 
> 269.13.30/1030 - Release Date: 9/25/2007 8:02 AM
>
> 


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 09:05:04 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 09:05:04 EST
Subject: Todays Shots
Message-ID: <2acf.4634aa7d.3896e810@aol.com>

Walt, 
 
Worked for me.
 
Don't include the "*" in the link address.
 
Tom
 
 
In a message dated 1/31/2010 8:47:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

Link did  not work for me!!


Walt


On Jan 30, 2010, at 9:56 PM, NW  Mailing List wrote:

> Some Snow shots from today. Including some  Ultra High ISO (12800)  
> shots that were hand held after  dark.
> *http://tinyurl.com/wns01-30-2009*
>
>  Nathan
>
> -- 
> Nathan Simmons
>  trainman51 at gmail.com
> http://www.t-51.org
>  KI4MSK
>
> ________________________________________
>  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
>  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the  NW-Mailing-List archives at
>  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To  change your subscription go  to
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Browse the  NW-Mailing-List archives  at
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 09:22:02 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 09:22:02 -0500
Subject: Todays Shots
References: <4B64F15D.6060005@gmail.com>
	<86548D38-3FB7-4E73-9BB0-56834EE8052F@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <E47769C2A45542C2BEBDC1A105FD21BF@ASUSP28>

You just need to remove the last asterisk in the browser address window.

Dell

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: Todays Shots


> Link did not work for me!!
> 
> 
> Walt
> 
> 
> On Jan 30, 2010, at 9:56 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
> 
>> Some Snow shots from today. Including some Ultra High ISO (12800)  
>> shots that were hand held after dark.
>> *http://tinyurl.com/wns01-30-2009*
>>
>> Nathan
>>
>> -- 
>> Nathan Simmons
>> trainman51 at gmail.com
>> http://www.t-51.org
>> KI4MSK
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> 
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> 
> __________ NOD32 4822 (20100131) Information __________
> 
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
> 
>

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 11:24:16 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 08:24:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: K-1s
In-Reply-To: <CD90D577407743B387CEA0E29FDBDCBD@susan>
Message-ID: <189191.69783.qm@web110802.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

were K-1s a sort of version of a light or heavy mountain? tony putnam

--- On Sun, 1/31/10, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:


From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: Norfolk Southern History
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 6:39 AM


Mr. Flummer,

You say "To speculate on the tort responsibility of? Norfolk Southern from damage inflicted upon an empty train of coaches, at night, in a railroad yard, is pure fantasy."

To me, your statement only enforces NS's position. How many times have you heard an official say "what if"? And they will not budge from their argument. "What if the passenger train had been full? What if there was a hazmat involved?" No amount of argument, especially using "common sense", is going to change their mind. And the fact that an employee violated a rule, intentionally, or not, just proves their point that accidents happen, anytime, anyplace.

For better, or worse, the railroad, in this case Norfolk Southern (and David Goode) own the ball. They also make the rules, and they own the ball field. So, guess who gets to make the decisions? I'm not cutting Mr. Goode any slack, but, if he doesn't appreciate the history of his company enough to stick his neck out for it, it's still his call. And if he's not a "fan" (of steam, history, or whatever), it's our loss. He could care less. Our happiness, or attitude, isn't his responsibility. That's right, bottom line. I didn't like the decision any more than any other steam fan, but, unfortunately, Mr. Goode didn't call and ask for my opinion.

The first gentleman to broach this subject said something like "it's a shame that railroads are run like businesses". Well, excuse me; if the railroads hadn't been operated as businesses for the past 150 years, I guess we would all be out chasing, photographing and trying to run excursions on canal barges! Because there wouldn't be any railroads.

The railroads are not in business to please the public, nor to grant us our every whim. Just be thankful for every opportunity to see, ride and photograph any passenger train, steam or otherwise. Be grateful for every significant building saved, every tunnel not butchered, every piece of motive power preserved. NS has done much toward preserving railroad history, as mentioned by others here. But we are certainly not going to get all we want. And, it's a futile exercise to try to figure out their motives.

As the old folks say, "when you're given lemons, make lemonade".

Jeff Sanders

----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: Norfolk Southern History


> Mr. Shell, I certainly respect your inside knowledge of the decision to end the Norfolk Southern Steam Program. However, I must clarify that the " derailment of 1994" was actually caused by a train that was mistakenly shoving on the same track occupied by the excursion coaches. A track that was clearly closed by railroad rule book standards. A track that was REQUIRED to be protected against any movement by an employee. Norfolk Southern Operating Rule number 508. "When directing a move by radio communication, person directing the move, after establishing identification, will give engineer direction of move and distance seen to be clear. When one-half the last distance received has been covered, engineer will stop the move unless he is receiving additional signal from person directing move. Exception: Commencing five car lengths before coupling or stop is to be made, person directing move will call out distances in car lengths, as: "five cars;" "four
 cars;" "three cars;" etc. after acknowledging "five cars," engineer will not be required to further acknowledge countdown if doing so would interfere with safe operation. During this countdown, engineer will stop the move immediately after moving one car length unless he is receiving additional signal from person directing move." The damage inflicted upon the excursion coaches was simply caused by? disregard for the rules by a careless employee. To speculate on the tort responsibility of? Norfolk Southern from? damage inflicted upon an empty train of coaches, at night, in a railroad yard, is pure fantasy. It seems that very few want to believe that Mr. Goode could have been so cold as to end the Steam Program for no visible reason, so the apologists create many different reasons, liability being one; the story about the school children running across the track to board 611's train in Apomattox, for instance. Isn't it strange that Mr. Robert Claytor
 was able to operate the Steam Program so sucessfully, while facing these same concerns. Isn't it strange that Union Pacific continues their excursions many years after 1994. As I heard more than one person say, in 1994, after the end of the NS Steam Program was announced, "They waited untill Bob Claytor was in the ground, before they ended it." Look to Mr. Goode for the reasons it ended. Look to the Board members of that year. Look to the profit and loss sheets. Remember the end of steam on the N&W, so impatiently, and wastefully implemented by Stuart Saunders. It wasn't fear of lawsuits that brought an end to the NS Steam Program, it was greed. Also, to those of you who continually call for Norfolk Southern to pull 611 from the museum, you can forget it. Not in this or any other lifetime. I invite you to do as I, and please contribute to the maintenance and upkeep of 611, and 1218, on a regular basis. Thank You, Jim Flummer, former 611, and 1218
 locomotive engineer.
> 
>> I have to take exception to this comment. Norfolk Southern not running steam has nothing to do with whether or not they are interested in history. Norfolk Southern quit running steam excursions due to liability. I have heard this first hand from top NS management at the time. I was involved in some meetings with NS to preserve the steam program. After the derailment/accident in Lynchburg, VA in 1994 they realized that if that train had been full of school kids there would not be enough money to cover all of those blood sucking lawsuits that would follow. Blood sucking is my description, not NS's. I believe in compensation after an accident but these settlements these days are outrageous.
>> 
>> Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are interested in history. They often support our historic organizations. The reason they often tear down unused structures is to avoid property taxes.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Richard D. Shell
>> Troutville, VA
>> 
>> In a message dated 1/27/2010 1:38:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
>> 
>>? ???It's the same reason why NS sees absolutely no
>>? ???reason to operate steam locomotives,
> 
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> 
> 
> -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.30/1030 - Release Date: 9/25/2007 8:02 AM
> 
> 

________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 08:57:22 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 08:57:22 EST
Subject: Todays Shots
Message-ID: <27e6.1fff413.3896e642@aol.com>


dont include asterisks
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/31/2010 8:47:26 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

Link did  not work for me!!


Walt


On Jan 30, 2010, at 9:56 PM, NW  Mailing List wrote:

> Some Snow shots from today. Including some  Ultra High ISO (12800)  
> shots that were hand held after  dark.
> *http://tinyurl.com/wns01-30-2009*
>
>  Nathan
>
> -- 
> Nathan Simmons
>  trainman51 at gmail.com
> http://www.t-51.org
>  KI4MSK
>
> ________________________________________
>  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
>  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the  NW-Mailing-List archives at
>  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To  change your subscription go  to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 09:04:57 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 09:04:57 EST
Subject: Todays Shots
Message-ID: <29ee.14195229.3896e809@aol.com>

Use this link without the ***'s:
 
_http://tinyurl.com/wns01-30-2009_ (http://tinyurl.com/wns01-30-2009) 
 
 

That worked for me.
 
Thanks,
 
Richard D. Shell
Troutville, VA
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 12:05:17 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 11:05:17 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Todays Shots
Message-ID: <424216542.250017.1264957517486.JavaMail.root@vms170003.mailsrvcs.net>

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 12:46:36 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 12:46:36 EST
Subject: Fwd: Snow pics - railyard in Norfolk Va
Message-ID: <7720.21eeb97b.38971bfc@aol.com>

These were forwarded by an old Victoria friend, shot yesterday.
 
Greg Harrod
=======================================
 
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Subject: Fwd: Snow pics - railyard in Norfolk Va
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:57:53 EST
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 13:02:00 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:02:00 -0500
Subject: K-1s
In-Reply-To: <189191.69783.qm@web110802.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <189191.69783.qm@web110802.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <E2D3111A516F48D09978C11329BFE8DC@601ek604PC>

The K-1s, along with the original NYC Mohawks of 1916 and the ATSF original 3700 class, were the first heavy mountains with drivers higher than 63".

EdKing


From: NW Mailing List 
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 11:24 AM
To: NW Mailing List 
Subject: K-1s


      were K-1s a sort of version of a light or heavy mountain? tony putnam


     


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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 13:02:23 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:02:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: K-1s
In-Reply-To: <189191.69783.qm@web110802.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <103092.35840.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

The K1's was similar in engine weight to the USRA heavy 4-8-2 - K1 353,000 lbs; stock USRA heavy 4-8-2 - 352,000 lbs.  N&W K2/K2a which were based on the USRA heavy, were slightly over 359,000 lbs.

Dave Stephenson

--- On Sun, 1/31/10, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: K-1s
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 11:24 AM

> were K-1s a sort of version of a light or heavy mountain?
 tony putnam



      

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 13:21:38 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:21:38 -0800 (PST)
Subject: K-1s
In-Reply-To: <103092.35840.qm@web31810.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <948098.93839.qm@web110815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

ok I am thinking of taking a Bachmann 4-8-2 and rebuilding it into a K-1. I already have a heavy and hoping to try and streamline it. I also have another question concerning the K-2s skyline where was the whistle?check valve?pops and low water alarm placed and also were the bells on the Js and?K-2s?mounted?on the pilot deck? again thanks. tony?

--- On Sun, 1/31/10, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:


From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: K-1s
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 6:02 PM


The K1's was similar in engine weight to the USRA heavy 4-8-2 - K1 353,000 lbs; stock USRA heavy 4-8-2 - 352,000 lbs.? N&W K2/K2a which were based on the USRA heavy, were slightly over 359,000 lbs.

Dave Stephenson

--- On Sun, 1/31/10, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: K-1s
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 11:24 AM

> were K-1s a sort of version of a light or heavy mountain?
tony putnam



? ? ? 
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 14:11:41 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 11:11:41 -0800 (PST)
Subject: K-1s
In-Reply-To: <948098.93839.qm@web110815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <449898.24919.qm@web110814.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

I would also like to know if any Js did local passenger duty? tony

--- On Sun, 1/31/10, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:


From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: K-1s
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 6:21 PM






ok I am thinking of taking a Bachmann 4-8-2 and rebuilding it into a K-1. I already have a heavy and hoping to try and streamline it. I also have another question concerning the K-2s skyline where was the whistle?check valve?pops and low water alarm placed and also were the bells on the Js and?K-2s?mounted?on the pilot deck? again thanks. tony?

--- On Sun, 1/31/10, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:


From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Re: K-1s
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 6:02 PM


The K1's was similar in engine weight to the USRA heavy 4-8-2 - K1 353,000 lbs; stock USRA heavy 4-8-2 - 352,000 lbs.? N&W K2/K2a which were based on the USRA heavy, were slightly over 359,000 lbs.

Dave Stephenson

--- On Sun, 1/31/10, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: K-1s
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 11:24 AM

> were K-1s a sort of version of a light or heavy mountain?
tony putnam



? ? ? 
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----


________________________________________
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To change your subscription go to
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 14:36:47 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:36:47 -0500
Subject: More snow shots
Message-ID: <4B65DBCF.2090709@gmail.com>

I hope this link works, these shots were just added to yesterdays album:

*http://tinyurl.com/wns01-31-2010

*Nathan

-- 
Nathan Simmons
trainman51 at gmail.com
http://www.t-51.org
KI4MSK


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 14:06:44 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:06:44 -0500
Subject: Snow pics - railyard in Norfolk Va
In-Reply-To: <7720.21eeb97b.38971bfc@aol.com>
References: <7720.21eeb97b.38971bfc@aol.com>
Message-ID: <309b12131001311106j7e429a26xfd4e3bfd25cd3276@mail.gmail.com>

Old photographer's challenge: Dark locomotives in snow. New photographers
turn to Photoshop if necessary.

Mike Pierry, Jr.

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 12:46 PM, NW Mailing List
<nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>wrote:

>  These were forwarded by an old Victoria friend, shot yesterday.
>
> Greg Harrod
> =======================================
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: EKVAUGHAN at aol.com
> To: relichuntr at aol.com
> Date: Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:57:53 EST
> Subject: Fwd: Snow pics - railyard in Norfolk Va
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       1-30-2010 - Norfolk, VA
>
>     Norfolk, Virginia - 1-30-2010
>    Norfolk, Virginia - 1-30-2010
>    Norfolk, Virginia - 1-30-2010
>    Norfolk, Virginia - 1-30-2010
>    Norfolk, Virginia - 1-30-2010
>    Norfolk, Virginia - 1-30-2010
>    Norfolk, Virginia - 1-30-2010
>    Norfolk, Virginia - 1-30-2010
>    Norfolk, Virginia - 1-30-2010
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 14:49:25 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 14:49:25 -0500
Subject: Norfolk Southern History
In-Reply-To: <CD90D577407743B387CEA0E29FDBDCBD@susan>
References: <4B620735.7060904@vt.edu> <CD90D577407743B387CEA0E29FDBDCBD@susan>
Message-ID: <00dd01caa2ae$803497a0$809dc6e0$@net>

Well said Jeff.

Regards,

Todd Arnett

-----Original Message-----
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 1:39 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Norfolk Southern History

Mr. Flummer,

You say "To speculate on the tort responsibility of  Norfolk Southern from 
damage inflicted upon an empty train of coaches, at night, in a railroad 
yard, is pure fantasy."

To me, your statement only enforces NS's position. How many times have you 
heard an official say "what if"? And they will not budge from their 
argument. "What if the passenger train had been full? What if there was a 
hazmat involved?" No amount of argument, especially using "common sense", is

going to change their mind. And the fact that an employee violated a rule, 
intentionally, or not, just proves their point that accidents happen, 
anytime, anyplace.

For better, or worse, the railroad, in this case Norfolk Southern (and David

Goode) own the ball. They also make the rules, and they own the ball field. 
So, guess who gets to make the decisions? I'm not cutting Mr. Goode any 
slack, but, if he doesn't appreciate the history of his company enough to 
stick his neck out for it, it's still his call. And if he's not a "fan" (of 
steam, history, or whatever), it's our loss. He could care less. Our 
happiness, or attitude, isn't his responsibility. That's right, bottom line.

I didn't like the decision any more than any other steam fan, but, 
unfortunately, Mr. Goode didn't call and ask for my opinion.

The first gentleman to broach this subject said something like "it's a shame

that railroads are run like businesses". Well, excuse me; if the railroads 
hadn't been operated as businesses for the past 150 years, I guess we would 
all be out chasing, photographing and trying to run excursions on canal 
barges! Because there wouldn't be any railroads.

The railroads are not in business to please the public, nor to grant us our 
every whim. Just be thankful for every opportunity to see, ride and 
photograph any passenger train, steam or otherwise. Be grateful for every 
significant building saved, every tunnel not butchered, every piece of 
motive power preserved. NS has done much toward preserving railroad history,

as mentioned by others here. But we are certainly not going to get all we 
want. And, it's a futile exercise to try to figure out their motives.

As the old folks say, "when you're given lemons, make lemonade".

Jeff Sanders

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 28, 2010 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: Norfolk Southern History


> Mr. Shell, I certainly respect your inside knowledge of the decision to 
> end the Norfolk Southern Steam Program. However, I must clarify that the "

> derailment of 1994" was actually caused by a train that was mistakenly 
> shoving on the same track occupied by the excursion coaches. A track that 
> was clearly closed by railroad rule book standards. A track that was 
> REQUIRED to be protected against any movement by an employee. Norfolk 
> Southern Operating Rule number 508. "When directing a move by radio 
> communication, person directing the move, after establishing 
> identification, will give engineer direction of move and distance seen to 
> be clear. When one-half the last distance received has been covered, 
> engineer will stop the move unless he is receiving additional signal from 
> person directing move. Exception: Commencing five car lengths before 
> coupling or stop is to be made, person directing move will call out 
> distances in car lengths, as: "five cars;" "four cars;" "three cars;" etc.

> after acknowledging "five cars," engineer will not be required to further 
> acknowledge countdown if doing so would interfere with safe operation. 
> During this countdown, engineer will stop the move immediately after 
> moving one car length unless he is receiving additional signal from person

> directing move." The damage inflicted upon the excursion coaches was 
> simply caused by  disregard for the rules by a careless employee. To 
> speculate on the tort responsibility of  Norfolk Southern from  damage 
> inflicted upon an empty train of coaches, at night, in a railroad yard, is

> pure fantasy. It seems that very few want to believe that Mr. Goode could 
> have been so cold as to end the Steam Program for no visible reason, so 
> the apologists create many different reasons, liability being one; the 
> story about the school children running across the track to board 611's 
> train in Apomattox, for instance. Isn't it strange that Mr. Robert Claytor

> was able to operate the Steam Program so sucessfully, while facing these 
> same concerns. Isn't it strange that Union Pacific continues their 
> excursions many years after 1994. As I heard more than one person say, in 
> 1994, after the end of the NS Steam Program was announced, "They waited 
> untill Bob Claytor was in the ground, before they ended it." Look to Mr. 
> Goode for the reasons it ended. Look to the Board members of that year. 
> Look to the profit and loss sheets. Remember the end of steam on the N&W, 
> so impatiently, and wastefully implemented by Stuart Saunders. It wasn't 
> fear of lawsuits that brought an end to the NS Steam Program, it was 
> greed. Also, to those of you who continually call for Norfolk Southern to 
> pull 611 from the museum, you can forget it. Not in this or any other 
> lifetime. I invite you to do as I, and please contribute to the 
> maintenance and upkeep of 611, and 1218, on a regular basis. Thank You, 
> Jim Flummer, former 611, and 1218 locomotive engineer.
>
>> I have to take exception to this comment. Norfolk Southern not running 
>> steam has nothing to do with whether or not they are interested in 
>> history. Norfolk Southern quit running steam excursions due to liability.

>> I have heard this first hand from top NS management at the time. I was 
>> involved in some meetings with NS to preserve the steam program. After 
>> the derailment/accident in Lynchburg, VA in 1994 they realized that if 
>> that train had been full of school kids there would not be enough money 
>> to cover all of those blood sucking lawsuits that would follow. Blood 
>> sucking is my description, not NS's. I believe in compensation after an 
>> accident but these settlements these days are outrageous.
>>
>> Many of my dealings with Norfolk Southern show me that they are 
>> interested in history. They often support our historic organizations. The

>> reason they often tear down unused structures is to avoid property taxes.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Richard D. Shell
>> Troutville, VA
>>
>> In a message dated 1/27/2010 1:38:56 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
>> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:
>>
>>     It's the same reason why NS sees absolutely no
>>     reason to operate steam locomotives,
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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>
>
> -- 
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 
> 269.13.30/1030 - Release Date: 9/25/2007 8:02 AM
>
> 

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 15:25:10 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:25:10 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: Model Railroad Open House - Saturday, February 6, 2010 - 6pm to 10 pm
In-Reply-To: <1679130629.2005821264969490543.JavaMail.root@sz0048a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <2000166460.2005991264969510075.JavaMail.root@sz0048a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>





All, 



As has been my custom for the past several years, I will have an open house of my model railroad following the Timonium, MD show on Saturday, February 6, 2010 from 6 p.m. to 10 p.m. 



The HO scale layout occupies a 3600 square foot basement and replicates the N&W Shenandoah Valley line between Front Royal and Waynesboro, VA, circa 1956.? In addition to period motive power and rolling stock, there are many scratchbuilt structures representing the area. 



Please contact me off list ( jfbrewer at comcast.net ) if you need directions.? Hope to see you. 



Jim Brewer 

Glenwood MD
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 15:57:06 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 15:57:06 -0500
Subject: More snow shots
In-Reply-To: <4B65DBCF.2090709@gmail.com>
References: <4B65DBCF.2090709@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B43BA2F-6F52-418D-9EC8-68BFD9BE503B@verizon.net>

Nathan,

	Great shooting!! What have you got that will go to 12800 ISO??

Walt


On Jan 31, 2010, at 2:36 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

> I hope this link works, these shots were just added to yesterdays  
> album:
>
> *http://tinyurl.com/wns01-31-2010
>
> *Nathan
>
> -- 
> Nathan Simmons
> trainman51 at gmail.com
> http://www.t-51.org
> KI4MSK
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 16:24:08 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:24:08 -0500
Subject: K-1s
In-Reply-To: <449898.24919.qm@web110814.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
References: <449898.24919.qm@web110814.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <864C4737888E4B3C85A87275516A1716@601ek604PC>

Yep.  On Bristol locals 9 and 10 after no longer needed for Columbus District 77 and 78.

EdKing


From: NW Mailing List 
Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2010 2:11 PM
To: NW Mailing List 
Subject: Re: K-1s


      I would also like to know if any Js did local passenger duty? tony

      --- On Sun, 1/31/10, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:


        From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
        Subject: Re: K-1s
        To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
        Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 6:21 PM


              ok I am thinking of taking a Bachmann 4-8-2 and rebuilding it into a K-1. I already have a heavy and hoping to try and streamline it. I also have another question concerning the K-2s skyline where was the whistle check valve pops and low water alarm placed and also were the bells on the Js and K-2s mounted on the pilot deck? again thanks. tony 

              --- On Sun, 1/31/10, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:


                From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
                Subject: Re: K-1s
                To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
                Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 6:02 PM


                The K1's was similar in engine weight to the USRA heavy 4-8-2 - K1 353,000 lbs; stock USRA heavy 4-8-2 - 352,000 lbs.  N&W K2/K2a which were based on the USRA heavy, were slightly over 359,000 lbs.

                Dave Stephenson

                --- On Sun, 1/31/10, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

                > From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
                > Subject: K-1s
                > To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
                > Date: Sunday, January 31, 2010, 11:24 AM

                > were K-1s a sort of version of a light or heavy mountain?
                tony putnam



                      
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 17:29:27 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 17:29:27 -0500
Subject: More snow shots
In-Reply-To: <3B43BA2F-6F52-418D-9EC8-68BFD9BE503B@verizon.net>
References: <4B65DBCF.2090709@gmail.com>
	<3B43BA2F-6F52-418D-9EC8-68BFD9BE503B@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4B660447.40503@gmail.com>

Walt,

I use a Canon EOS 50D, I've had I for about three weeks. Before I got it 
I used a Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT which only went to 1600 ISO

Nathan

Nathan Simmons
trainman51 at gmail.com
http://www.t-51.org
KI4MSK



NW Mailing List wrote:
> Nathan,
>
>     Great shooting!! What have you got that will go to 12800 ISO??
>
> Walt
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2010, at 2:36 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>
>> I hope this link works, these shots were just added to yesterdays album:
>>
>> *http://tinyurl.com/wns01-31-2010
>>
>> *Nathan
>>
>> -- 
>> Nathan Simmons
>> trainman51 at gmail.com
>> http://www.t-51.org
>> KI4MSK
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 19:58:37 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 19:58:37 EST
Subject: Snow pics - railyard in Norfolk Va
Message-ID: <12382.638127f.3897813d@aol.com>

Photoshop Elements 7 or 8 will bring up the shadows easily. Now you can see 
 details on the NS loco and see the snow against the locomotive :-)
 
Thanks,
 
Richard D. Shell
Troutville, VA
 
 
In a message dated 1/31/2010 2:52:38 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

Old  photographer's challenge: Dark locomotives in snow. New photographers 
turn to  Photoshop if necessary.  


Mike Pierry, Jr.

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 12:46 PM, NW Mailing List 
<_nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org_ (mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org) >  wrote:


These were forwarded by an old Victoria friend, shot  yesterday.
 
Greg Harrod
=======================================
 



---------- Forwarded message  ----------
From: _EKVAUGHAN at aol.com_ (mailto:EKVAUGHAN at aol.com) 
To: _relichuntr at aol.com_ (mailto:relichuntr at aol.com) 
Date: Sat,  30 Jan 2010 18:57:53 EST
Subject: Fwd: Snow pics - railyard in  Norfolk Va








           1-30-2010 -  Norfolk, VA  



    Norfolk, Virginia -  1-30-2010
   Norfolk, Virginia -  1-30-2010
   Norfolk, Virginia -  1-30-2010
   Norfolk, Virginia -  1-30-2010
   Norfolk, Virginia -  1-30-2010
   Norfolk, Virginia -  1-30-2010
   Norfolk, Virginia -  1-30-2010
   Norfolk, Virginia -  1-30-2010
   Norfolk, Virginia -  1-30-2010






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(http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list) 
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_http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/_ 
(http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/) 






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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 22:07:26 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:07:26 -0500
Subject: More snow shots
In-Reply-To: <4B660447.40503@gmail.com>
References: <4B65DBCF.2090709@gmail.com>
	<3B43BA2F-6F52-418D-9EC8-68BFD9BE503B@verizon.net>
	<4B660447.40503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B939B5B6-D40A-4056-8081-0EB789FA03E7@verizon.net>

Nathan,

	Thanks, I have a 10D and a 30D and was thinking about getting a 50D  
for the Live View, but then the 7D came out, and now I want one!!!

Walt


On Jan 31, 2010, at 5:29 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

> Walt,
>
> I use a Canon EOS 50D, I've had I for about three weeks. Before I  
> got it I used a Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT which only went to 1600 ISO
>
> Nathan
>
> Nathan Simmons
> trainman51 at gmail.com
> http://www.t-51.org
> KI4MSK
>
>
>
> NW Mailing List wrote:
>> Nathan,
>>
>>    Great shooting!! What have you got that will go to 12800 ISO??
>>
>> Walt
>>
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2010, at 2:36 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>
>>> I hope this link works, these shots were just added to yesterdays  
>>> album:
>>>
>>> *http://tinyurl.com/wns01-31-2010
>>>
>>> *Nathan
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Nathan Simmons
>>> trainman51 at gmail.com
>>> http://www.t-51.org
>>> KI4MSK
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>>> To change your subscription go to
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Jan 31 23:36:18 2010
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:36:18 -0500
Subject: More snow shots
In-Reply-To: <B939B5B6-D40A-4056-8081-0EB789FA03E7@verizon.net>
References: <4B65DBCF.2090709@gmail.com>	<3B43BA2F-6F52-418D-9EC8-68BFD9BE503B@verizon.net>	<4B660447.40503@gmail.com>
	<B939B5B6-D40A-4056-8081-0EB789FA03E7@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <4B665A42.6010205@gmail.com>

Walt,
Just remember that if you have any EF-S lenses they won't work on the 7D 
;-) A friend of mine made that mistake.

Nathan

Nathan Simmons
trainman51 at gmail.com
http://www.t-51.org
KI4MSK



NW Mailing List wrote:
> Nathan,
>
>     Thanks, I have a 10D and a 30D and was thinking about getting a 
> 50D for the Live View, but then the 7D came out, and now I want one!!!
>
> Walt
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2010, at 5:29 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>
>> Walt,
>>
>> I use a Canon EOS 50D, I've had I for about three weeks. Before I got 
>> it I used a Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT which only went to 1600 ISO
>>
>> Nathan
>>
>> Nathan Simmons
>> trainman51 at gmail.com
>> http://www.t-51.org
>> KI4MSK
>>
>>
>>
>> NW Mailing List wrote:
>>> Nathan,
>>>
>>>    Great shooting!! What have you got that will go to 12800 ISO??
>>>
>>> Walt
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 31, 2010, at 2:36 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>>>
>>>> I hope this link works, these shots were just added to yesterdays 
>>>> album:
>>>>
>>>> *http://tinyurl.com/wns01-31-2010
>>>>
>>>> *Nathan
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Nathan Simmons
>>>> trainman51 at gmail.com
>>>> http://www.t-51.org
>>>> KI4MSK
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________________
>>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>>>> To change your subscription go to
>>>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>>>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>>> To change your subscription go to
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
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