Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

[NW Mailing List]

OK, so what was the best speed and tonnage for Y3's?  From what I know  
of them they did best at speeds in the 15 to 25 MPH range, but tonnage  
has more to do with grades, curvature and factor of adhesion.

Mark Lindsey
Stalled in the 1930's



On Nov 12, 2009, at 2:37 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

Guys:  I think we are getting too far down the track on pushers on  
Kingston Hill.  They may have been used in earlier days around the  
turn of the century (we need to check the employee timetables for  
certainty). Do we have facts?  I do have the file on the changes in  
Chillicothe (somewhere) due to dynamometer car tests with Y-3’s.   
There was a sag in the RoW in Chilli that took the Y-3’s ‘off the  
power curve’ that was measured by tests.  Improvements in the line and  
grade allowed a better run at the hill for w/b’s and allowed the Y-3’s  
to run at their best performance under load.  The N&W made these tests  
while the C&O was still running on the Scioto Division 1917-1927.   
This change in grade and RoW was done in 1924 if I remember  
correctly.  This file does not discuss the use of pushers on these Y-3  
pulled trains at all.  It does discuss the increase in tonnage on the  
trains.

Gary Rolih
Cincinnati


From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org 
] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 2:02 PM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

Interesting information / stories. I've been aware of the Kingston  
hill and the fact that it was an operational challenge - but I was  
unaware that unaware that it was so severe.

It surprises me that the tonnage was such that the trains regularly  
slowed to 5mph. I would think that the chance of stalling would have  
been pretty high.

Matt Goodman
Columbus, OH


On Nov 9, 2009, at 10:04 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing- 
list at nwhs.org> wrote:


> Thanks.  I was growing up in the 1930s and evidently wasn’t aware of  

> the helpers.  I remember walking behind the 5 mph coal drags with my  

> brothers just north of Chillicothe.

>

> Bob McKell

>

> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org 

> ] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List

> Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 9:06 AM

> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

> Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

>

>    Unfortunately not.  I do know my Grandfather used to ride the  

> helpers up the hill to Kingston.  He then used a portable telegraph  

> unit to check on train movements to ensure it was safe to back down  

> the hill to Chillicothe.  The sidings used were the ones at  

> Delano.   It's just off Route 159 north of the Hospital.  As far as  

> time frame, as a guess I'd say in the 1910s to 1930s.  They were  

> using Z1s and the early Y series then and they just didn't have  

> enough power to pull that hill alone.

>    When I was about 10 my dad worked at Kingston as an Railway  

> Express Agent.  A friend and I would walk south down the hill and  

> wait for a coal drag.  When we thought the engineer couldn't see us  

> we would hop a coal car and ride to the top of the hill.  Even with  

> the 1200s on the head end the train would only be going about 5  

> miles an hour when we hopped off south of the Depot so dad couldn't  

> see what we had done.

>

> Jack Lemon

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 9:25 am

> Subject: RE: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

>

> To the gentleman who responded to Nathan Simmons about the Scioto  

> Division:  Do you know the dates the N&W used helpers on the  

> Kingston hill west of Chillicothe?  I don’t remember them.

>

> Bob McKell

> Chillicothe, Ohio

>

> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org 

> ] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List

> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:55 AM

> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

> Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

>

>    Nathan, I grew up in the Scioto Division and my father and  

> grandfather were Operator/Levermen at the various interlocking  

> towers throughout the division.  Since I lived in Ohio at the end of  

> the westbound line I don't know a lot about the division east of  

> Portsmouth.

>

>    The Scioto Division began west of Williamson and ran to Columbus,  

> Ohio with a branch to Cincinnati, Ohio.  There was a big  

> classification yard at Portsmouth.  >From there it was doubletracked  

> all the way to Columbus where there were two yards.   Watkins Yard  

> was at the South end of Columbus and was where all coal drags were  

> broken down for interchange with the C & O, the PRR and the NYC.   

> There was a small exchange yard next to Watkins for the C & O.  It  

> was called Mozelle Yard.  It had about 6 tracks if I recall  

> correctly.  The other yard in Columbus was Joyce Avenue Yard.  This  

> was the actual end of the N & W until the merger with NKP in the mid  

> 60s.  This was the freight and passenger yard.  The line from  

> Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Valley.

>

>    There was a 14 mile grade between Chillicothe, Ohio and Kingston,  

> Ohio that required helpers.  They were kept at a siding just north  

> of Chillicothe and ran to Kingston and backed down the hill  

> toChillicothe.

>

>    Somtime in the late 50s or early 60s they removed a section of  

> the double track main between Waverly, Ohio and Chillicothe, Ohio.   

> That move never made sense to me.

>

>   The interchanges were at Waverly, Ohio at Glen Jean Tower with the  

> DT & I.  In Chillicothe, Ohio at Renick Tower with the MCRR  

> (Marietta, Cincinnati RailRoad) which was later the CH & D  

> (Cincinnati, Hamilton and Dayton) and finally I believe it was the B  

> & O.  At Circleville, Ohio the interchange was with the PRR and was  

> controlled by Circleville Tower.  At Valley Crossing, Ohio it was  

> with the HVRR (Hocking Valley Railroad) which later became part of  

> the C  & O and was controlled by Valley Crossing Tower.  Bannon  

> Tower at the north end of Watkins yard controlled an interchange  

> with the PRR.

>

>    Just at the north end of Portsmouth, Ohio was a branch line to  

> Cincinnati, Ohio.  It was called the Peavine.  It was single track  

> with lots of curves and at least one grade, between Lawshe  

> andWinchester, that required helpers until the Class As showed up.   

> It ended at Claire Yard in Cincinnati.

>

>    My Great Grandfather was a Hostler in Chillicothe, Ohio for the  

> MCRR.  My Grandfather and my Father worked at the yards in  

> Portsmouth and at the towers in Glen Jean, Renick, Circleville,  

> Valley Crossing and Bannon.  I used to go to work with him during  

> the summer months.  I saw the 1200s, 2100s, 1100s, and even saw Jawn  

> Henry once.  The passenger engines were not the Northeren 4-8-4, 600  

> series.  I believe they were shrouded 2-8-4s.  Was it a K2?.  The  

> train that ran from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Cavalier  

> and its engine was numbered in the 120s.

>

>   This is all from memory and I'm 67. So if I gaffed please forgive  

> me, but I think I'm reasonably accurate.

>

>

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> To: NWHS <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 5:59 pm

> Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

> It seems the older I get the more I wish I could have lived in the  

> past to see the Y6s, As, and Js. I guess it is the History buff in  

> me. (After all I'm only 23). This email I m sending so that I can  

> learn some more about the Divisions west of Roanoke as well as to  

> show ya'll my my photos from this past weekend which was a trip west  

> of Bluefield.

>

> So here goes, I know the Pulaski District came off at Walton and  

> went down to Bristol. I know the Main to Bluefield was double track  

> this far, and I know that it is Double Tracked from Narrows to  

> Bluefield. Now my question is was it double track between Walton and  

> Narrows back in the 50s?

>

> As for the Pocahontas Division I know it had the Clinch Valley and  

> Pocahontas District, as well as many branches. But my questions are  

> mainly for the Pocahontas district. Exactly how far was it  

> electrified? I have read to Vivian and I have read Iaeger. I know  

> electrification ended when the new alignment came about which was  

> 1950 right? Now for the Kicker, where exactly did the old alignment  

> go? This weekend I was on the Pocahontas and made it to the west end  

> of Elkhorn Tunnel and I think I was able to spot the Old alignment  

> to the North of the current one, it was higher and was across the  

> hollow. So where did it tie into everything on the East side of the  

> hill? I ask because I was in Coopers as well.

>

> Now for the Last question, Where exactly did the Scioto Division  

> begin? What all did it include? and what division is it part of in  

> todays NS System?

>

> Here is the photo album from this weekend:

> *http://tinyurl.com/pokey-oct09*

>

> Oh one last question, this is for you Virginian folks. Right now the  

> Virginian connects to the Christiansburg district at Narrows. Now I  

> suspect that the PD district that comes off the Christiansburg at PD  

> jct is also old Virginian am I correct on my assumption? and I also  

> assume if I am correct that the Virginian originally went stright  

> through, and that N&W abandoned the section between Narrows and PD  

> jct. after the merger. Is the correct or am I all wrong? Please  

> educate me.

>

> Thanks in advance,

> Nathan

>

> PS I hope I didn't ask too many "Duh" questions, and I would  

> research it myself. But at the moment I don't have the time. However  

> after I get caught up on things I plan to do some research on some  

> stuff. One thing being the Dry Fork Branch.

>

> -- Nathan Simmons 

> trainman51 at gmail.com

> http://www.t-51.org

> KI4MSK

>

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Mark Lindsey
y3a at earthlink.net



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