Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

[NW Mailing List]

Ah, but now that I know that it did occur at some point, I can now justify a "pusher" hill on my new layout plan without building mountains right next to flat Circleville, OH!  Modelers license takes care of the rest...

Matt Goodman
Columbus
(via Circleville and Chillicothe)


On Nov 12, 2009, at 2:37 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Guys:  I think we are getting too far down the track on pushers on Kingston Hill.  They may have been used in earlier days around the turn of the century (we need to check the employee timetables for certainty). Do we have facts?  I do have the file on the changes in Chillicothe (somewhere) due to dynamometer car tests with Y-3’s.  There was a sag in the RoW in Chilli that took the Y-3’s ‘off the power curve’ that was measured by tests.  Improvements in the line and grade allowed a better run at the hill for w/b’s and allowed the Y-3’s to run at their best performance under load.  The N&W made these tests while the C&O was still running on the Scioto Division 1917-1927.  This change in grade and RoW was done in 1924 if I remember correctly.  This file does not discuss the use of pushers on these Y-3 pulled trains at all.  It does discuss the increase in tonnage on the trains. 
 
Gary Rolih
Cincinnati
 
 
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 2:02 PM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
 
Interesting information / stories. I've been aware of the Kingston hill and the fact that it was an operational challenge - but I was unaware that unaware that it was so severe. 
 
It surprises me that the tonnage was such that the trains regularly slowed to 5mph. I would think that the chance of stalling would have been pretty high.    

Matt Goodman
Columbus, OH
 

On Nov 9, 2009, at 10:04 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Thanks.  I was growing up in the 1930s and evidently wasn’t aware of the helpers.  I remember walking behind the 5 mph coal drags with my brothers just north of Chillicothe.
 
Bob McKell
 
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 9:06 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
 
   Unfortunately not.  I do know my Grandfather used to ride the helpers up the hill to Kingston.  He then used a portable telegraph unit to check on train movements to ensure it was safe to back down the hill to Chillicothe.  The sidings used were the ones at Delano.   It's just off Route 159 north of the Hospital.  As far as time frame, as a guess I'd say in the 1910s to 1930s.  They were using Z1s and the early Y series then and they just didn't have enough power to pull that hill alone. 
   When I was about 10 my dad worked at Kingston as an Railway Express Agent.  A friend and I would walk south down the hill and wait for a coal drag.  When we thought the engineer couldn't see us we would hop a coal car and ride to the top of the hill.  Even with the 1200s on the head end the train would only be going about 5 miles an hour when we hopped off south of the Depot so dad couldn't see what we had done. 
 
Jack Lemon


-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 9:25 am
Subject: RE: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

To the gentleman who responded to Nathan Simmons about the Scioto Division:  Do you know the dates the N&W used helpers on the Kingston hill west of Chillicothe?  I don’t remember them.
 
Bob McKell
Chillicothe, Ohio
 
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:55 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
 
   Nathan, I grew up in the Scioto Division and my father and grandfather were Operator/Levermen at the various interlocking towers throughout the division.  Since I lived in Ohio at the end of the westbound line I don't know a lot about the division east of Portsmouth.
 
   The Scioto Division began west of Williamson and ran to Columbus, Ohio with a branch to Cincinnati, Ohio.  There was a big classification yard at Portsmouth.  >From there it was doubletracked all the way to Columbus where there were two yards.   Watkins Yard was at the South end of Columbus and was where all coal drags were broken down for interchange with the C & O, the PRR and the NYC.  There was a small exchange yard next to Watkins for the C & O.  It was called Mozelle Yard.  It had about 6 tracks if I recall correctly.  The other yard in Columbus was Joyce Avenue Yard.  This was the actual end of the N & W until the merger with NKP in the mid 60s.  This was the freight and passenger yard.  The line from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Valley.
 
   There was a 14 mile grade between Chillicothe, Ohio and Kingston, Ohio that required helpers.  They were kept at a siding just north of Chillicothe and ran to Kingston and backed down the hill to Chillicothe.
 
   Somtime in the late 50s or early 60s they removed a section of the double track main between Waverly, Ohio and Chillicothe, Ohio.  That move never made sense to me.
 
  The interchanges were at Waverly, Ohio at Glen Jean Tower with the DT & I.  In Chillicothe, Ohio at Renick Tower with the MCRR (Marietta, Cincinnati RailRoad) which was later the CH & D ( Cincinnati, Hamilton and Dayton) and finally I believe it was the B & O.  At Circleville, Ohio the interchange was with the PRR and was controlled by Circleville Tower.  At Valley Crossing, Ohio it was with the HVRR (Hocking Valley Railroad) which later became part of the C  & O and was controlled by Valley Crossing Tower.  Bannon Tower at the north end of Watkins yard controlled an interchange with the PRR.  
 
   Just at the north end of Portsmouth, Ohio was a branch line to Cincinnati, Ohio.  It was called the Peavine.  It was single track with lots of curves and at least one grade, between Lawshe and Winchester, that required helpers until the Class As showed up.  It ended at Claire Yard in Cincinnati. 
 
   My Great Grandfather was a Hostler in Chillicothe, Ohio for the MCRR.  My Grandfather and my Father worked at the yards in Portsmouth and at the towers in Glen Jean, Renick, Circleville, Valley Crossing and Bannon.  I used to go to work with him during the summer months.  I saw the 1200s, 2100s, 1100s, and even saw Jawn Henry once.  The passenger engines were not the Northeren 4-8-4, 600 series.  I believe they were shrouded 2-8-4s.  Was it a K2?.  The train that ran from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Cavalier and its engine was numbered in the 120s.
 
  This is all from memory and I'm 67. So if I gaffed please forgive me, but I think I'm reasonably accurate. 


From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NWHS <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 5:59 pm
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
It seems the older I get the more I wish I could have lived in the past to see the Y6s, As, and Js. I guess it is the History buff in me. (After all I'm only 23). This email I m sending so that I can learn some more about the Divisions west of Roanoke as well as to show ya'll my my photos from this past weekend which was a trip west of Bluefield. 
 
So here goes, I know the Pulaski District came off at Walton and went down to Bristol. I know the Main to Bluefield was double track this far, and I know that it is Double Tracked from Narrows to Bluefield. Now my question is was it double track between Walton and Narrows back in the 50s? 
 
As for the Pocahontas Division I know it had the Clinch Valley and Pocahontas District, as well as many branches. But my questions are mainly for the Pocahontas district. Exactly how far was it electrified? I have read to Vivian and I have read Iaeger. I know electrification ended when the new alignment came about which was 1950 right? Now for the Kicker, where exactly did the old alignment go? This weekend I was on the Pocahontas and made it to the west end of Elkhorn Tunnel and I think I was able to spot the Old alignment to the North of the current one, it was higher and was across the hollow. So where did it tie into everything on the East side of the hill? I ask because I was in Coopers as well. 
 
Now for the Last question, Where exactly did the Scioto Division begin? What all did it include? and what division is it part of in todays NS System? 
 
Here is the photo album from this weekend: 
*http://tinyurl.com/pokey-oct09* 
 
Oh one last question, this is for you Virginian folks. Right now the Virginian connects to the Christiansburg district at Narrows. Now I suspect that the PD district that comes off the Christiansburg at PD jct is also old Virginian am I correct on my assumption? and I also assume if I am correct that the Virginian originally went stright through, and that N&W abandoned the section between Narrows and PD jct. after the merger. Is the correct or am I all wrong? Please educate me. 
 
Thanks in advance, 
Nathan 
 
PS I hope I didn't ask too many "Duh" questions, and I would research it myself. But at the moment I don't have the time. However after I get caught up on things I plan to do some research on some stuff. One thing being the Dry Fork Branch. 
 
-- Nathan Simmons 
trainman51 at gmail.com 
http://www.t-51.org 
KI4MSK 
 
________________________________________ 
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org 
To change your subscription go to 
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list 
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at 
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ 
 ________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
 
________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/



      
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20091114/e59d0125/attachment-0001.html>