From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 01:09:00 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 06:09:00 +0000
Subject: Y6B 2171
In-Reply-To: <7045635C4D2E49E19F29E5631C1EFB6D@lewisdl0ls5whv>
References: <8CC2600774D480C-5488-1223C@webmail-m086.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <SNT106-W34C5E7028A649620577CF2BCAC0@phx.gbl>


Is this the new version of the Y book, as I do not recall the older version having such a roster. I am particularly interested in the fate of the Y6b I modeled for a N&WHS craft award, Engine 2194.

Lois J. Ponton

ljp611 at ntelos.net


 


To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Y6B 2171
Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:00:48 -0400
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org




I am not familiar with the roster in the Y Book. The 2171 could have been scrapped in 5-1970, but I cannot verify this. But that was not the last Y6b scrapped.
 
In late 1975, I walked around both Y6 2143 and Y6b 2174 in the yard of the Virginia Iron and Metal in Roanoke. I even walked on top of the boiler of the 2174 and being a bright sunny day, I viewed the "waffleiron" exhaust ports by looking down the stack. The 2174 had its tender; the 2143 did not.
 
I went overseas in early 2-1976. Soon afterward, I received a Roanoke Times newspaper clipping dated Friday, February 20, 1976. The clipping was about the scrapyard cutting up the 2174, the last Y6b. The article stated that the scrapping began on the previous Monday [that would the February 16th] and that its sister [that would be 2143] had been scrapped a couple of weeks earlier.
 
The 2143 was the last Y6 and the 2174 the last Y6b. The article also stated that only one other Y6 class was left--that would be the Y6a 2156 in St. Louis at the National Museum of Transportation. BTW, the 2171 had been in the VI&M, too.
 
I understand that there was some effort to save the 2174 but scrap metal values were extremely high in the mid-70s. The figure I heard was the 2174 was valued at about $50,000 and that the scrapyard had paid only about $5,000 for itin 1960. If this is so, the scrapyard made a killin' on this one.
 
Bud Jeffries
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: NW Mailing List 
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org 
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:11 PM
Subject: Y6B 2171


The Y6b roster on page 118 of the N&W Class Y book from TLC Publishing shows that engine #2171 was not scrapped until May of 1970.  Why was this the last Y6b to be cut-up?  Were there any efforts made to save her?  I always thought that all Y6b's were scrapped by the 1960's.
 
Jeff Morfit




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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 07:51:47 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 07:51:47 -0500
Subject: boiler for N&W 2300, "Jawn Henry"
References: <mailman.5.1257699611.28267.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
	<6C68A084BD864933AFE34404677C7EB4@NeillHPlaptop>
Message-ID: <3DBB93BA2C65452989899F095264E52F@DellVostro>

Who are you?

I thought that the C&O steam turbine locos had fire-tube boilers.

Gordon Hamilton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: boiler for N&W 2300, "Jawn Henry"


> Responding to the query and comments on the Jawn Henry (#2300) water tube
> boiler, I want to note that in the 37th Edition of Steam, the annual 
> Babcock
> and Wilcox publication on that subject published in 1955, there is a photo
> of the boiler that would be installed in the 2300 set up for operational
> testing on a shop floor.  It can be found on page 26-5.  Its only
> resemblance to a locomotive in that image is strictly in terms of
> proportions and scale, and accomodation to the carbody style of the
> diesel-electric locomotives of the period seems to have been in the minds 
> of
> its designers from inception.
>
> This seems to differ from some other designs for water tube boilers in
> locomotives, but consistent with the design used by the C&O "Chessie"
> project of roughly the same time.
>
> Sorry to have taken as much time in looking this up and posting.
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 08:25:29 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 08:25:29 -0500
Subject: K-1 Tender Question
References: <4AF6FFAF.4090607@btsrr.com>
Message-ID: <3F52C08B3C9C41F4809BBB2C351BC775@lewisdl0ls5whv>

Eight of the 16 K1's received ex-Pere Marquette 2-8-4 tenders in 1954-55. 
Pere Marquette was merged into the C&O in about 1947 and these tenders had 
been used on the C&O for a while until retired by 1952 on that road.

Bud Jeffries

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "N&W Modeling List" <mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:28 PM
Subject: K-1 Tender Question


> The K-1s were upgraded with larger, ex-C&O tenders.... were these tenders 
> from the C&O 2-8-4s??
>
> Thanks
> Bill
>
> -- 
> ==  Scale Model Railroad Products  == == Manufacturer - Retailer - 
> Importer ==
>  Bill & Diane Wade       B.T.S.                    RR 1  Box 141A
> Belington, WV  26250    Phone: 304-823-3729
> FAX: 304-823-2901   http://www.btsrr.com
>  We wish you Fair Winds and Following Seas.
>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> 



From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 08:31:00 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 08:31:00 -0500
Subject: K-1 Tender Question 
In-Reply-To: <4AF6FFAF.4090607@btsrr.com>
References: <4AF6FFAF.4090607@btsrr.com>
Message-ID: <643884E9-035E-40AE-A542-DC02EF293C6A@rev.net>

Ex Pere Marquette 2-8-4 tanks if I recall correctly.

Ken Miller

On Nov 8, 2009, at 12:28 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

> The K-1s were upgraded with larger, ex-C&O tenders.... were these  
> tenders from the C&O 2-8-4s??
> Thanks
> Bill
>
> -- 
> ==  Scale Model Railroad Products  == == Manufacturer - Retailer -  
> Importer ==
> Bill & Diane Wade        B.T.S.                    RR 1  Box 141A
> Belington, WV  26250     Phone: 304-823-3729
> FAX: 304-823-2901   http://www.btsrr.com
> We wish you Fair Winds and Following Seas.
>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 08:55:27 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 05:55:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: boiler for N&W 2300, "Jawn Henry"
In-Reply-To: <3DBB93BA2C65452989899F095264E52F@DellVostro>
Message-ID: <861096.91974.qm@web31809.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Gordon, you're correct, the three C&O STE's had conventional looking firetube boilers inside the carbody.

Dave Stephenson

--- On Mon, 11/9/09, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: boiler for N&W 2300, "Jawn Henry"
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Date: Monday, November 9, 2009, 7:51 AM
> Who are you?
> 
> I thought that the C&O steam turbine locos had
> fire-tube boilers.
> 
> Gordon Hamilton



      

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 09:05:31 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 09:05:31 -0500
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
In-Reply-To: <015101ca607f$49510500$dbf30f00$@net>
References: <4AF358E4.7010002@gmail.com><8CC2DD166865359-16AC-1C50D@webmail-d011.sysops.aol.com>
	<015101ca607f$49510500$dbf30f00$@net>
Message-ID: <8CC2F5CD4E5D9C3-3188-4DB0@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>


   Unfortunately not.  I do know my Grandfather used to ride the helpers up the hill to Kingston.  He then used a portable telegraph unit to check on train movements to ensure it was safe to back down the hill to Chillicothe.  The sidings used were the ones at Delano.   It's just off Route 159 north of the Hospital.  As far as time frame, as a guess I'd say in the 1910s to 1930s.  They were using Z1s and the early Y series then and they just didn't have enough power to pull that hill alone.  
   When I was about 10 my dad worked at Kingston as an Railway Express Agent.  A friend and I would walk south down the hill and wait for a coal drag.  When we thought the engineer couldn't see us we would hop a coal car and ride to the top of the hill.  Even with the 1200s on the head end the train would only be going about 5 miles an hour when we hopped off south of the Depot so dad couldn't see what we had done.  

Jack Lemon


-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 9:25 am
Subject: RE: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s




To the gentleman who responded to Nathan Simmons about the Scioto Division:  Do you know the dates the N&W used helpers on the Kingston hill west of Chillicothe?  I don?t remember them.
 
Bob McKell
Chillicothe, Ohio
 

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:55 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

 

   Nathan, I grew up in the Scioto Division and my father and grandfather were Operator/Levermen at the various interlocking towers throughout the division.  Since I lived in Ohio at the end of the westbound line I don't know a lot about the division east of Portsmouth.


 


   The Scioto Division began west of Williamson and ran to Columbus, Ohio with a branch to Cincinnati, Ohio.  There was a big classification yard at Portsmouth.  From there it was doubletracked all the way to Columbus where there were two yards.   Watkins Yard was at the South end of Columbus and was where all coal drags were broken down for interchange with the C & O, the PRR and the NYC.  There was a small exchange yard next to Watkins for the C & O.  It was called Mozelle Yard.  It had about 6 tracks if I recall correctly.  The other yard in Columbus was Joyce Avenue Yard.  This was the actual end of the N & W until the merger with NKP in the mid 60s.  This was the freight and passenger yard.  The line from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Valley.


 


   There was a 14 mile grade between Chillicothe, Ohio and Kingston, Ohio that required helpers.  They were kept at a siding just north of Chillicothe and ran to Kingston and backed down the hill to Chillicothe.


  


   Somtime in the late 50s or early 60s they removed a section of the double track main between Waverly, Ohio and Chillicothe, Ohio.  That move never made sense to me.


 


  The interchanges were at Waverly, Ohio at Glen Jean Tower with the DT & I.  In Chillicothe, Ohio at Renick Tower with the MCRR (Marietta, Cincinnati RailRoad) which was later the CH & D ( Cincinnati, Hamilton and Dayton) and finally I believe it was the B & O.  At Circleville, Ohio the interchange was with the PRR and was controlled by Circleville Tower.  At Valley Crossing, Ohio it was with the HVRR (Hocking Valley Railroad) which later became part of the C  & O and was controlled by Valley Crossing Tower.  Bannon Tower at the north end of Watkins yard controlled an interchange with the PRR.   


 


   Just at the north end of Portsmouth, Ohio was a branch line to Cincinnati, Ohio.  It was called the Peavine.  It was single track with lots of curves and at least one grade, between Lawshe and Winchester, that required helpers until the Class As showed up.  It ended at Claire Yard in Cincinnati.  


  


   My Great Grandfather was a Hostler in Chillicothe, Ohio for the MCRR.  My Grandfather and my Father worked at the yards in Portsmouth and at the towers in Glen Jean, Renick, Circleville, Valley Crossing and Bannon.  I used to go to work with him during the summer months.  I saw the 1200s, 2100s, 1100s, and even saw Jawn Henry once.  The passenger engines were not the Northeren 4-8-4, 600 series.  I believe they were shrouded 2-8-4s.  Was it a K2?.  The train that ran from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Cavalier and its engine was numbered in the 120s.


 


  This is all from memory and I'm 67. So if I gaffed please forgive me, but I think I'm reasonably accurate. 


From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NWHS <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 5:59 pm
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s


It seems the older I get the more I wish I could have lived in the past to see the Y6s, As, and Js. I guess it is the History buff in me. (After all I'm only 23). This email I m sending so that I can learn some more about the Divisions west of Roanoke as well as to show ya'll my my photos from this past weekend which was a trip west of Bluefield. 
 
So here goes, I know the Pulaski District came off at Walton and went down to Bristol. I know the Main to Bluefield was double track this far, and I know that it is Double Tracked from Narrows to Bluefield. Now my question is was it double track between Walton and Narrows back in the 50s? 
 
As for the Pocahontas Division I know it had the Clinch Valley and Pocahontas District, as well as many branches. But my questions are mainly for the Pocahontas district. Exactly how far was it electrified? I have read to Vivian and I have read Iaeger. I know electrification ended when the new alignment came about which was 1950 right? Now for the Kicker, where exactly did the old alignment go? This weekend I was on the Pocahontas and made it to the west end of Elkhorn Tunnel and I think I was able to spot the Old alignment to the North of the current one, it was higher and was across the hollow. So where did it tie into everything on the East side of the hill? I ask because I was in Coopers as well. 
 
Now for the Last question, Where exactly did the Scioto Division begin? What all did it include? and what division is it part of in todays NS System? 
 
Here is the photo album from this weekend: 
*http://tinyurl.com/pokey-oct09* 
 
Oh one last question, this is for you Virginian folks. Right now the Virginian connects to the Christiansburg district at Narrows. Now I suspect that the PD district that comes off the Christiansburg at PD jct is also old Virginian am I correct on my assumption? and I also assume if I am correct that the Virginian originally went stright through, and that N&W abandoned the section between Narrows and PD jct. after the merger. Is the correct or am I all wrong? Please educate me. 
 
Thanks in advance, 
Nathan 
 
PS I hope I didn't ask too many "Duh" questions, and I would research it myself. But at the moment I don't have the time. However after I get caught up on things I plan to do some research on some stuff. One thing being the Dry Fork Branch. 
 
-- Nathan Simmons 
trainman51 at gmail.com 
http://www.t-51.org 
KI4MSK 
 
________________________________________ 
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To change your subscription go to 
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list 
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http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ 




________________________________________
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 09:19:43 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 09:19:43 -0500
Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 49, Issue 17  -- 2300 Boiler
In-Reply-To: <mailman.36.1257775622.88398.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
References: <mailman.36.1257775622.88398.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <2491BF8F852B4984BD917E2376BE3D30@NeillHPlaptop>

My name is Neill Herring, and I so signed the message in which I made the 
mistake about the Chessie locomotives have a water tube boiler, but my name 
was not reproduced at the bottom of that message.  I regret the error, and 
the fact that I appeared to be annonymous.

I obtained the B&W book, Steam, # 37, after reading a reference to it in the 
excellent Rails Remembered, V. IV, by Mr. Newton.

The photo answers the original query as to the shape of the boiler:  it was 
rectangular.   I enjoy reading these messages very much, particularly the 
accounts of the meetings of the Virginian retirees. 


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 10:04:00 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:04:00 -0500
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
In-Reply-To: <8CC2F5CD4E5D9C3-3188-4DB0@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
References: <4AF358E4.7010002@gmail.com><8CC2DD166865359-16AC-1C50D@webmail-d011.sysops.aol.com>	<015101ca607f$49510500$dbf30f00$@net>
	<8CC2F5CD4E5D9C3-3188-4DB0@webmail-d079.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <003e01ca614d$de3d5d20$9ab81760$@net>

Thanks.  I was growing up in the 1930s and evidently wasn?t aware of the helpers.  I remember walking behind the 5 mph coal drags with my brothers just north of Chillicothe.

 

Bob McKell

 

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 9:06 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

 

   Unfortunately not.  I do know my Grandfather used to ride the helpers up the hill to Kingston.  He then used a portable telegraph unit to check on train movements to ensure it was safe to back down the hill to Chillicothe.  The sidings used were the ones at Delano.   It's just off Route 159 north of the Hospital.  As far as time frame, as a guess I'd say in the 1910s to 1930s.  They were using Z1s and the early Y series then and they just didn't have enough power to pull that hill alone.  

   When I was about 10 my dad worked at Kingston as an Railway Express Agent.  A friend and I would walk south down the hill and wait for a coal drag.  When we thought the engineer couldn't see us we would hop a coal car and ride to the top of the hill.  Even with the 1200s on the head end the train would only be going about 5 miles an hour when we hopped off south of the Depot so dad couldn't see what we had done.  

 

Jack Lemon


-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 9:25 am
Subject: RE: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

To the gentleman who responded to Nathan Simmons about the Scioto Division:  Do you know the dates the N&W used helpers on the Kingston hill west of Chillicothe?  I don?t remember them.

 

Bob McKell

Chillicothe, Ohio

 

From:  <mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org> nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [ <mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org?> mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:55 AM
To:  <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

 

   Nathan, I grew up in the Scioto Division and my father and grandfather were Operator/Levermen at the various interlocking towers throughout the division.  Since I lived in Ohio at the end of the westbound line I don't know a lot about the division east of Portsmouth.

 

   The Scioto Division began west of Williamson and ran to Columbus, Ohio with a branch to Cincinnati, Ohio.  There was a big classification yard at Portsmouth.  From there it was doubletracked all the way to Columbus where there were two yards.   Watkins Yard was at the South end of Columbus and was where all coal drags were broken down for interchange with the C & O, the PRR and the NYC.  There was a small exchange yard next to Watkins for the C & O.  It was called Mozelle Yard.  It had about 6 tracks if I recall correctly.  The other yard in Columbus was Joyce Avenue Yard.  This was the actual end of the N & W until the merger with NKP in the mid 60s.  This was the freight and passenger yard.  The line from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Valley.

 

   There was a 14 mile grade between Chillicothe, Ohio and Kingston, Ohio that required helpers.  They were kept at a siding just north of Chillicothe and ran to Kingston and backed down the hill to Chillicothe.

  

   Somtime in the late 50s or early 60s they removed a section of the double track main between Waverly, Ohio and Chillicothe, Ohio.  That move never made sense to me.

 

  The interchanges were at Waverly, Ohio at Glen Jean Tower with the DT & I.  In Chillicothe, Ohio at Renick Tower with the MCRR (Marietta, Cincinnati RailRoad) which was later the CH & D ( Cincinnati, Hamilton and Dayton) and finally I believe it was the B & O.  At Circleville, Ohio the interchange was with the PRR and was controlled by Circleville Tower.  At Valley Crossing, Ohio it was with the HVRR (Hocking Valley Railroad) which later became part of the C  & O and was controlled by Valley Crossing Tower.  Bannon Tower at the north end of Watkins yard controlled an interchange with the PRR.   

 

   Just at the north end of Portsmouth, Ohio was a branch line to Cincinnati, Ohio.  It was called the Peavine.  It was single track with lots of curves and at least one grade, between Lawshe and Winchester, that required helpers until the Class As showed up.  It ended at Claire Yard in Cincinnati.  

  

   My Great Grandfather was a Hostler in Chillicothe, Ohio for the MCRR.  My Grandfather and my Father worked at the yards in Portsmouth and at the towers in Glen Jean, Renick, Circleville, Valley Crossing and Bannon.  I used to go to work with him during the summer months.  I saw the 1200s, 2100s, 1100s, and even saw Jawn Henry once.  The passenger engines were not the Northeren 4-8-4, 600 series.  I believe they were shrouded 2-8-4s.  Was it a K2?.  The train that ran from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Cavalier and its engine was numbered in the 120s.

 

  This is all from memory and I'm 67. So if I gaffed please forgive me, but I think I'm reasonably accurate. 


From: NW Mailing List < <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NWHS < <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 5:59 pm
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

It seems the older I get the more I wish I could have lived in the past to see the Y6s, As, and Js. I guess it is the History buff in me. (After all I'm only 23). This email I m sending so that I can learn some more about the Divisions west of Roanoke as well as to show ya'll my my photos from this past weekend which was a trip west of Bluefield. 
 
So here goes, I know the Pulaski District came off at Walton and went down to Bristol. I know the Main to Bluefield was double track this far, and I know that it is Double Tracked from Narrows to Bluefield. Now my question is was it double track between Walton and Narrows back in the 50s? 
 
As for the Pocahontas Division I know it had the Clinch Valley and Pocahontas District, as well as many branches. But my questions are mainly for the Pocahontas district. Exactly how far was it electrified? I have read to Vivian and I have read Iaeger. I know electrification ended when the new alignment came about which was 1950 right? Now for the Kicker, where exactly did the old alignment go? This weekend I was on the Pocahontas and made it to the west end of Elkhorn Tunnel and I think I was able to spot the Old alignment to the North of the current one, it was higher and was across the hollow. So where did it tie into everything on the East side of the hill? I ask because I was in Coopers as well. 
 
Now for the Last question, Where exactly did the Scioto Division begin? What all did it include? and what division is it part of in todays NS System? 
 
Here is the photo album from this weekend: 
* <http://tinyurl.com/pokey-oct09*> http://tinyurl.com/pokey-oct09* 
 
Oh one last question, this is for you Virginian folks. Right now the Virginian connects to the Christiansburg district at Narrows. Now I suspect that the PD district that comes off the Christiansburg at PD jct is also old Virginian am I correct on my assumption? and I also assume if I am correct that the Virginian originally went stright through, and that N&W abandoned the section between Narrows and PD jct. after the merger. Is the correct or am I all wrong? Please educate me. 
 
Thanks in advance, 
Nathan 
 
PS I hope I didn't ask too many "Duh" questions, and I would research it myself. But at the moment I don't have the time. However after I get caught up on things I plan to do some research on some stuff. One thing being the Dry Fork Branch. 
 
-- Nathan Simmons 
 <mailto:trainman51 at gmail.com> trainman51 at gmail.com 
 <http://www.t-51.org/> http://www.t-51.org 
KI4MSK 
 
________________________________________ 
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 10:34:03 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 10:34:03 -0500
Subject: Y6B 2171
In-Reply-To: <CA0206A490F5476389754B32C3B742A5@DellVostro>
References: <4AEB4EB5.3080309@vt.edu><SNT102-W456A9ADA58DD5BAC85F3EACBB60@phx.gbl><F5CAD0B9D3F62341B4B6EA482A168E5FD28AB88B55@SWEC9965.w-intra.net><125A79E0AD6A4A95A22A8ED65FAB9623@lewisdl0ls5whv>
	<F5CAD0B9D3F62341B4B6EA482A168E5FD28AB88B59@SWEC9965.w-intra.net>
	<CA0206A490F5476389754B32C3B742A5@DellVostro>
Message-ID: <04F1DF013003034193915EE0CCEA9A913BECC40F@SWEC9924.w-intra.net>

Gordon,
If the locomotives were showing smoke and or steam as they passed wouldn't the difference in each locomotive's stack talk also be  give-a-way?  Wouldn't the front and rear engine's 2 separate exhausts from the "simple " Class-A per rotation (with the 2 engines seldom being in sync) be distinguishable from the single exhaust of the "compound" Y-Class per rotation (rear high pressure engine cylinders exhausting to the front lower pressure engine cylinders which than exhausted through the smoke box and out the stack - unless operating in simple) ?  Or   - When starting the trains like this did the Y begin by working in simple?

Best regards,
Ed Painter - Narrows, VA - living in Russellville, AR

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 7:07 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Y6B 2171

This slanted stack discussion reminds me of a small experience that I had the summer of 1956 when I worked at the Shaffers Crossing roundhouse before I was so rudely drafted into the Army for a couple of years.  Whenever an eastbound coal train would pull out of the west yard and accelerate up the slight grade leading to the 24th Street underpass with a Y6 leading an A, a lot of the work in the roundhouse would stop momentarily as a number of the men would rush to the open windows to watch the awesome display of power.  Sometimes there would be a train standing on the track between the roundhouse and the track on which the coal train was departing, pretty well blocking the view of the eastbound except for the tops of the locomotives.  That was when I discovered that the Y6 exhausts were angled forward whereas the A exhausts went straight up.  So, without being able to see the locomotives themselves, I could confirm from the exhausts that the Y6 was leading the A.

Gordon Hamilton
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Mailing List<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List'<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: Y6B 2171

Bud,

Thanks...........You know, after I sent the email I had some second thoughts and wished that I had validated the slanted stack comment before I sent it.  Obviously I should have done so.  Thanks for correcting my error.

Ed Painter;  Narrows, VA currently Russellville, AR


From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:26 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Y6B 2171

Ed,

The Y6 and Y6a all had the slanted stack just like the Y6b.

Bud Jeffries
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Mailing List<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List'<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:50 AM
Subject: RE: Y6B 2171

The Y-6b's most distinguishing feature compared to Y-6's and Y-6a's was the Worthington SA Feedwater Heater on top of the smokebox in front or the (Y-6b only) slanted forward smoke stack.


From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 3:58 PM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: RE: Y6B 2171

The Y6a has two air pumps on the engineer's side, with a BL feedwater heater on the fireman's side .  The Y6b has an air pump on each side.

James Jarvis

> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:38:13 -0400
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Subject: RE: Y6B 2171
> From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
>
> I too saw them in 1973. And while my slides are marked "Virginia Scrap
> Iron", United works for me. Attached are some photos.
> How can one distinguish between a Y6 and Y6b in the state these locos
> were in?
>
>
> Don Trettel
>
> [Moderator]
> See images at following:
> http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=69
> http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=70
> http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=71
>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
________________________________
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 12:09:15 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:09:15 -0500
Subject: Y6B 2171
References: <8CC2600774D480C-5488-1223C@webmail-m086.sysops.aol.com>
	<SNT106-W34C5E7028A649620577CF2BCAC0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <13AB070242B945FDA0D7856412E293EC@lewisdl0ls5whv>

I understand from this mailing list the new version book has a roster.

As for 2194, it was retired at Williamson on 4-22-1960. It then was sold [date unknown] to D. J. Joseph of Cincinnati where it was scrapped.

Bud Jeffries
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org 
  Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 1:09 AM
  Subject: RE: Y6B 2171


  Is this the new version of the Y book, as I do not recall the older version having such a roster. I am particularly interested in the fate of the Y6b I modeled for a N&WHS craft award, Engine 2194.
  Lois J. Ponton
  ljp611 at ntelos.net

   

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
  Subject: Re: Y6B 2171
  Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 00:00:48 -0400
  From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org


  I am not familiar with the roster in the Y Book. The 2171 could have been scrapped in 5-1970, but I cannot verify this. But that was not the last Y6b scrapped.

  In late 1975, I walked around both Y6 2143 and Y6b 2174 in the yard of the Virginia Iron and Metal in Roanoke. I even walked on top of the boiler of the 2174 and being a bright sunny day, I viewed the "waffleiron" exhaust ports by looking down the stack. The 2174 had its tender; the 2143 did not.

  I went overseas in early 2-1976. Soon afterward, I received a Roanoke Times newspaper clipping dated Friday, February 20, 1976. The clipping was about the scrapyard cutting up the 2174, the last Y6b. The article stated that the scrapping began on the previous Monday [that would the February 16th] and that its sister [that would be 2143] had been scrapped a couple of weeks earlier.

  The 2143 was the last Y6 and the 2174 the last Y6b. The article also stated that only one other Y6 class was left--that would be the Y6a 2156 in St. Louis at the National Museum of Transportation. BTW, the 2171 had been in the VI&M, too.

  I understand that there was some effort to save the 2174 but scrap metal values were extremely high in the mid-70s. The figure I heard was the 2174 was valued at about $50,000 and that the scrapyard had paid only about $5,000 for itin 1960. If this is so, the scrapyard made a killin' on this one.

  Bud Jeffries

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: NW Mailing List 
    To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org 
    Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 12:11 PM
    Subject: Y6B 2171


    The Y6b roster on page 118 of the N&W Class Y book from TLC Publishing shows that engine #2171 was not scrapped until May of 1970.  Why was this the last Y6b to be cut-up?  Were there any efforts made to save her?  I always thought that all Y6b's were scrapped by the 1960's.

    Jeff Morfit

----------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 12:31:26 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 12:31:26 -0500
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
References: <4AF358E4.7010002@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <988C3E9906424674982CEF062CF657B1@lewisdl0ls5whv>

I will address that portion of your questions concerning the double tracking 
between Walton and Bluefield in the 1950s.

The entire N&W between Norfolk and Columbus was completed with double track 
operation in 1917 except for two small portions. The first was 1.14 miles of 
single track over the New River bridge and the adjoing Pepper Tunnel [which 
was between Walton and Bluefield] and the other was the Elkhorn Tunnel of 
0.70 miles.

The new Elkhorn Tunnel completed in 1950 was double tracked. After the 
Virginian merger in 1959, this all changed again.

Bud Jeffries

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 5:59 PM
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s


> It seems the older I get the more I wish I could have lived in the past to 
> see the Y6s, As, and Js. I guess it is the History buff in me. (After all 
> I'm only 23). This email I m sending so that I can learn some more about 
> the Divisions west of Roanoke as well as to show ya'll my my photos from 
> this past weekend which was a trip west of Bluefield.
>
> So here goes, I know the Pulaski District came off at Walton and went down 
> to Bristol. I know the Main to Bluefield was double track this far, and I 
> know that it is Double Tracked from Narrows to Bluefield. Now my question 
> is was it double track between Walton and Narrows back in the 50s?
>
> As for the Pocahontas Division I know it had the Clinch Valley and 
> Pocahontas District, as well as many branches. But my questions are mainly 
> for the Pocahontas district. Exactly how far was it electrified? I have 
> read to Vivian and I have read Iaeger. I know electrification ended when 
> the new alignment came about which was 1950 right? Now for the Kicker, 
> where exactly did the old alignment go? This weekend I was on the 
> Pocahontas and made it to the west end of Elkhorn Tunnel and I think I was 
> able to spot the Old alignment to the North of the current one, it was 
> higher and was across the hollow. So where did it tie into everything on 
> the East side of the hill? I ask because I was in Coopers as well.
>
> Now for the Last question, Where exactly did the Scioto Division begin? 
> What all did it include? and what division is it part of in todays NS 
> System?
>
> Here is the photo album from this weekend:
> *http://tinyurl.com/pokey-oct09*
>
> Oh one last question, this is for you Virginian folks. Right now the 
> Virginian connects to the Christiansburg district at Narrows. Now I 
> suspect that the PD district that comes off the Christiansburg at PD jct 
> is also old Virginian am I correct on my assumption? and I also assume if 
> I am correct that the Virginian originally went stright through, and that 
> N&W abandoned the section between Narrows and PD jct. after the merger. Is 
> the correct or am I all wrong? Please educate me.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Nathan
>
> PS I hope I didn't ask too many "Duh" questions, and I would research it 
> myself. But at the moment I don't have the time. However after I get 
> caught up on things I plan to do some research on some stuff. One thing 
> being the Dry Fork Branch.
>
> -- 
> Nathan Simmons
> trainman51 at gmail.com
> http://www.t-51.org
> KI4MSK
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> 



From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 15:16:13 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 15:16:13 -0500
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
In-Reply-To: <8CC2DD166865359-16AC-1C50D@webmail-d011.sysops.aol.com>
References: <4AF358E4.7010002@gmail.com>
	<8CC2DD166865359-16AC-1C50D@webmail-d011.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <56908E778259433680EDA4B5F011FBF6@071927350f>

Actually, the B&O through Chillicothe was originally the Marietta &
Cincinnati running from Marietta, Ohio on the Ohio River to Cincinnati.  It
went through Chillicothe in 1854 and was the site of their backshop which
was used by the B&O until 1940 for heavy repairs.   The shops lasted for
many years until about 1980.  This crosses the Scioto Valley Ry/N&W at the
Chillicothe Union Station.  This became part of the B&O Southwest then the
B&O in 1917.  About 1860, this line was adjusted to run to Parkersburg where
it would connect with the B&O coming over from Washington DC and Baltimore.
Thus trains could run from DC To Parkersburg, then Cincinnati and over the
Ohio & Mississippi/B&O to St. Louis.

 

Running somewhat parallel was the Dayton Branch of the Cincinnati Hamilton &
Dayton.  This line went into Jackson County and the coal fields there.  This
line runs on the southern edge of Chillicothe (well, did) through Mead Paper
and arcs upward to Musselman's west of Chillicothe where it crosses the
M&C/B&O and heads to Dayton.  This CH&D/B&O crosses the Scioto Valley Ry/N&W
at Renick.   This line was built about 1860 also.  The CH&D is purchased
outright by the B&O in 1917

 

After Chessie and CSX much of the older track arrangements between the CH&D
and M&C portions was modified to simplify activities in and around
Chillicothe. 

 

CSX abandoned the M&C in the mid 1980's (I think it was) while the
CH&D/Dayton Branch was kept open until the Fisher Body Plant in Hamilton
Ohio was closed and the auto based business dried up in the early 1990's. 

 

Gary Rolih

Cincinnati 

 

 

  _____  

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:55 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

 

   Nathan, I grew up in the Scioto Division and my father and grandfather
were Operator/Levermen at the various interlocking towers throughout the
division.  Since I lived in Ohio at the end of the westbound line I don't
know a lot about the division east of Portsmouth.

 

   The Scioto Division began west of Williamson and ran to Columbus, Ohio
with a branch to Cincinnati, Ohio.  There was a big classification yard at
Portsmouth.  From there it was doubletracked all the way to Columbus where
there were two yards.   Watkins Yard was at the South end of Columbus and
was where all coal drags were broken down for interchange with the C & O,
the PRR and the NYC.  There was a small exchange yard next to Watkins for
the C & O.  It was called Mozelle Yard.  It had about 6 tracks if I recall
correctly.  The other yard in Columbus was Joyce Avenue Yard.  This was the
actual end of the N & W until the merger with NKP in the mid 60s.  This was
the freight and passenger yard.  The line from Portsmouth to Columbus was
called the Valley.

 

   There was a 14 mile grade between Chillicothe, Ohio and Kingston, Ohio
that required helpers.  They were kept at a siding just north of Chillicothe
and ran to Kingston and backed down the hill to Chillicothe.

  

   Somtime in the late 50s or early 60s they removed a section of the double
track main between Waverly, Ohio and Chillicothe, Ohio.  That move never
made sense to me.

 

  The interchanges were at Waverly, Ohio at Glen Jean Tower with the DT & I.
In Chillicothe, Ohio at Renick Tower with the MCRR (Marietta, Cincinnati
RailRoad) which was later the CH & D ( Cincinnati, Hamilton and Dayton) and
finally I believe it was the B & O.  At Circleville, Ohio the interchange
was with the PRR and was controlled by Circleville Tower.  At Valley
Crossing, Ohio it was with the HVRR (Hocking Valley Railroad) which later
became part of the C  & O and was controlled by Valley Crossing Tower.
Bannon Tower at the north end of Watkins yard controlled an interchange with
the PRR.   

 

   Just at the north end of Portsmouth, Ohio was a branch line to
Cincinnati, Ohio.  It was called the Peavine.  It was single track with lots
of curves and at least one grade, between Lawshe and Winchester, that
required helpers until the Class As showed up.  It ended at Claire Yard in
Cincinnati.  

  

   My Great Grandfather was a Hostler in Chillicothe, Ohio for the MCRR.  My
Grandfather and my Father worked at the yards in Portsmouth and at the
towers in Glen Jean, Renick, Circleville, Valley Crossing and Bannon.  I
used to go to work with him during the summer months.  I saw the 1200s,
2100s, 1100s, and even saw Jawn Henry once.  The passenger engines were not
the Northeren 4-8-4, 600 series.  I believe they were shrouded 2-8-4s.  Was
it a K2?.  The train that ran from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the
Cavalier and its engine was numbered in the 120s.

 

  This is all from memory and I'm 67. So if I gaffed please forgive me, but
I think I'm reasonably accurate. 


From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NWHS <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 5:59 pm
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

It seems the older I get the more I wish I could have lived in the past to
see the Y6s, As, and Js. I guess it is the History buff in me. (After all
I'm only 23). This email I m sending so that I can learn some more about the
Divisions west of Roanoke as well as to show ya'll my my photos from this
past weekend which was a trip west of Bluefield. 
 
So here goes, I know the Pulaski District came off at Walton and went down
to Bristol. I know the Main to Bluefield was double track this far, and I
know that it is Double Tracked from Narrows to Bluefield. Now my question is
was it double track between Walton and Narrows back in the 50s? 
 
As for the Pocahontas Division I know it had the Clinch Valley and
Pocahontas District, as well as many branches. But my questions are mainly
for the Pocahontas district. Exactly how far was it electrified? I have read
to Vivian and I have read Iaeger. I know electrification ended when the new
alignment came about which was 1950 right? Now for the Kicker, where exactly
did the old alignment go? This weekend I was on the Pocahontas and made it
to the west end of Elkhorn Tunnel and I think I was able to spot the Old
alignment to the North of the current one, it was higher and was across the
hollow. So where did it tie into everything on the East side of the hill? I
ask because I was in Coopers as well. 
 
Now for the Last question, Where exactly did the Scioto Division begin? What
all did it include? and what division is it part of in todays NS System? 
 
Here is the photo album from this weekend: 
*http://tinyurl.com/pokey-oct09* 
 
Oh one last question, this is for you Virginian folks. Right now the
Virginian connects to the Christiansburg district at Narrows. Now I suspect
that the PD district that comes off the Christiansburg at PD jct is also old
Virginian am I correct on my assumption? and I also assume if I am correct
that the Virginian originally went stright through, and that N&W abandoned
the section between Narrows and PD jct. after the merger. Is the correct or
am I all wrong? Please educate me. 
 
Thanks in advance, 
Nathan 
 
PS I hope I didn't ask too many "Duh" questions, and I would research it
myself. But at the moment I don't have the time. However after I get caught
up on things I plan to do some research on some stuff. One thing being the
Dry Fork Branch. 
 
-- Nathan Simmons 
trainman51 at gmail.com 
http://www.t-51.org <http://www.t-51.org/>  
KI4MSK 
 
________________________________________ 
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org 
To change your subscription go to 
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list 
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at 
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ 

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 15:48:09 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 15:48:09 -0500
Subject: N&W 2300
Message-ID: <4AF88009.50902@vt.edu>

Great patent drawings are to be found on The Ultimate Steam Page showing 
the complexity of the water tube boiler in 2300.

Mike Pierry, Jr.


[Moderator]
 From Page:
http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/patents.html

see link about #2300 (third link on page)
   "Steam Powered Locomotive with Water Tube Steam Generator"

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 17:10:32 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 17:10:32 -0500
Subject: N&W 2300
In-Reply-To: <4AF88009.50902@vt.edu>
References: <4AF88009.50902@vt.edu>
Message-ID: <BBADFDDE10FD2A4EBAFF96D3117A04F5033D5DD14B@ECUSTU4.intra.ecu.edu>

Who ultimately was going to build and be responsible for this new generation of steam turbines? Wasn't the original plan of the N&W to someday be a supplier of these steam-electric locomotives to other railroads to recoup some of the development costs?
_________________________________
Mike Weeks, LCSW, LCAS
M1, Brody School of Medicine 2013
MSW, UNC at Charlotte 2003
BS Acct, UNC at Charlotte 1989
________________________________________
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List [nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org]
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 3:48 PM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: N&W 2300

Great patent drawings are to be found on The Ultimate Steam Page showing
the complexity of the water tube boiler in 2300.

Mike Pierry, Jr.


[Moderator]
 From Page:
http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/patents.html

see link about #2300 (third link on page)
   "Steam Powered Locomotive with Water Tube Steam Generator"
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 20:27:21 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 20:27:21 -0500
Subject: boiler for N&W 2300, "Jawn Henry"
In-Reply-To: <6C68A084BD864933AFE34404677C7EB4@NeillHPlaptop>
References: <mailman.5.1257699611.28267.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
	<6C68A084BD864933AFE34404677C7EB4@NeillHPlaptop>
Message-ID: <8CC2FBC15A8CC85-5614-16B95@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com>

The boiler used for Jawn Henry was vastly different than the ones used 
for C&O's 'Chessie' turbines.  The JH boiler resembled industrial or 
marine water tube boilers; more or less cubical in shape.  The boiler 
for the C&O locos was pure railroad, much the size and proportions of 
those for the 2-6-6-6's.  Other locos which tried the fire tube idea 
limited the tubes to the firebox walls; the remainder of their boilers 
were conventional with flues, etc.

Jerome Crosson


-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 5:54 pm
Subject: Re: boiler for N&W 2300, "Jawn Henry"


Responding to the query and comments on the Jawn Henry (#2300) water 
tube boiler, I want to note that in the 37th Edition of Steam, the 
annual Babcock and Wilcox publication on that subject published in 
1955, there is a photo of the boiler that would be installed in the 
2300 set up for operational testing on a shop floor. It can be found on 
page 26-5. Its only resemblance to a locomotive in that image is 
strictly in terms of proportions and scale, and accomodation to the 
carbody style of the diesel-electric locomotives of the period seems to 
have been in the minds of its designers from inception.?
?
This seems to differ from some other designs for water tube boilers in 
locomotives, but consistent with the design used by the C&O "Chessie" 
project of roughly the same time.?
?
Sorry to have taken as much time in looking this up and posting. ?
________________________________________?
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org?
To change your subscription go to?
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list?
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 21:13:46 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 21:13:46 -0500
Subject: Y6B 2171
References: <4AEB4EB5.3080309@vt.edu><SNT102-W456A9ADA58DD5BAC85F3EACBB60@phx.gbl><F5CAD0B9D3F62341B4B6EA482A168E5FD28AB88B55@SWEC9965.w-intra.net><125A79E0AD6A4A95A22A8ED65FAB9623@lewisdl0ls5whv><F5CAD0B9D3F62341B4B6EA482A168E5FD28AB88B59@SWEC9965.w-intra.net><CA0206A490F5476389754B32C3B742A5@DellVostro>
	<04F1DF013003034193915EE0CCEA9A913BECC40F@SWEC9924.w-intra.net>
Message-ID: <70B316C92B034C84A119D4D05FCD5DDD@DellVostro>

Ed,

You are right about the different stack talks of the Y's vis a vis the A's, but as best as I recall the sounds from both locos blended in a caphony that echoed off the roundhouse wall and other objects so that it wasn't obvious which sound came from which locomotive.  Anyway, what I remember mainly is the different exhaust angles of the two loco classes.

I don't know whether it was necessary for the Y's to start out of West Yard in simple, but I think by the time they came by the roundhouse they were above the speed for simple operation.

Gordon Hamilton
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: 'NW Mailing List' 
  Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 10:34 AM
  Subject: RE: Y6B 2171


  Gordon,

  If the locomotives were showing smoke and or steam as they passed wouldn't the difference in each locomotive's stack talk also be  give-a-way?  Wouldn't the front and rear engine's 2 separate exhausts from the "simple " Class-A per rotation (with the 2 engines seldom being in sync) be distinguishable from the single exhaust of the "compound" Y-Class per rotation (rear high pressure engine cylinders exhausting to the front lower pressure engine cylinders which than exhausted through the smoke box and out the stack - unless operating in simple) ?  Or   - When starting the trains like this did the Y begin by working in simple?

   

  Best regards,

  Ed Painter - Narrows, VA - living in Russellville, AR

   

  From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
  Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 7:07 AM
  To: NW Mailing List
  Subject: Re: Y6B 2171

   

  This slanted stack discussion reminds me of a small experience that I had the summer of 1956 when I worked at the Shaffers Crossing roundhouse before I was so rudely drafted into the Army for a couple of years.  Whenever an eastbound coal train would pull out of the west yard and accelerate up the slight grade leading to the 24th Street underpass with a Y6 leading an A, a lot of the work in the roundhouse would stop momentarily as a number of the men would rush to the open windows to watch the awesome display of power.  Sometimes there would be a train standing on the track between the roundhouse and the track on which the coal train was departing, pretty well blocking the view of the eastbound except for the tops of the locomotives.  That was when I discovered that the Y6 exhausts were angled forward whereas the A exhausts went straight up.  So, without being able to see the locomotives themselves, I could confirm from the exhausts that the Y6 was leading the A.

   

  Gordon Hamilton

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: NW Mailing List 

    To: 'NW Mailing List' 

    Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:48 PM

    Subject: RE: Y6B 2171

     

    Bud,

     

    Thanks.....You know, after I sent the email I had some second thoughts and wished that I had validated the slanted stack comment before I sent it.  Obviously I should have done so.  Thanks for correcting my error.

     

    Ed Painter;  Narrows, VA currently Russellville, AR 

     

     

    From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
    Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:26 AM
    To: NW Mailing List
    Subject: Re: Y6B 2171

     

    Ed,

     

    The Y6 and Y6a all had the slanted stack just like the Y6b.

     

    Bud Jeffries

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: NW Mailing List 

      To: 'NW Mailing List' 

      Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:50 AM

      Subject: RE: Y6B 2171

       

      The Y-6b's most distinguishing feature compared to Y-6's and Y-6a's was the Worthington SA Feedwater Heater on top of the smokebox in front or the (Y-6b only) slanted forward smoke stack. 

       

       

      From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
      Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 3:58 PM
      To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
      Subject: RE: Y6B 2171

       

      The Y6a has two air pumps on the engineer's side, with a BL feedwater heater on the fireman's side .  The Y6b has an air pump on each side.
       
      James Jarvis
       
      > Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:38:13 -0400
      > To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
      > Subject: RE: Y6B 2171
      > From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
      > 
      > I too saw them in 1973. And while my slides are marked "Virginia Scrap 
      > Iron", United works for me. Attached are some photos.
      > How can one distinguish between a Y6 and Y6b in the state these locos 
      > were in?
      > 
      > 
      > Don Trettel
      > 
      > [Moderator]
      > See images at following:
      > http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=69
      > http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=70
      > http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=71
      > 
      > 
      > ________________________________________
      > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
      > To change your subscription go to
      > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
      > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
      > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Mon Nov  9 21:10:25 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 21:10:25 -0500
Subject: O Class Information source request
Message-ID: <8CC2FC219F4B0FB-1DDC-2FDE@webmail-m005.sysops.aol.com>


Hello to all.

I have developed an interest in the O Class locomotives.  Can any of the Archives volunteers point me in the direction of any information on these locomotives.  I am planning to travel to the Archives this Saturday and any information would be greatly appreciated and will help me make the best use of my short time there.  

Thank you.

Chuck Stewart
Bahama, NC
Duham District
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Nov 10 08:54:59 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 08:54:59 -0500
Subject: Y6B 2171
References: <4AEB4EB5.3080309@vt.edu><SNT102-W456A9ADA58DD5BAC85F3EACBB60@phx.gbl><F5CAD0B9D3F62341B4B6EA482A168E5FD28AB88B55@SWEC9965.w-intra.net><125A79E0AD6A4A95A22A8ED65FAB9623@lewisdl0ls5whv><F5CAD0B9D3F62341B4B6EA482A168E5FD28AB88B59@SWEC9965.w-intra.net><CA0206A490F5476389754B32C3B742A5@DellVostro><04F1DF013003034193915EE0CCEA9A913BECC40F@SWEC9924.w-intra.net>
	<70B316C92B034C84A119D4D05FCD5DDD@DellVostro>
Message-ID: <FBFB27CFCA4E4C95B06B0438C6B8B16A@Jimmy>

"that echoed off the roundhouse wall and other objects so that it wasn't obvious which sound came from which locomotive."

Gordon,
When I report to work, as I walk across the underpass and start down the incline on the side to the call office, it is amazing how clearly people can be heard talking in front of the building due to the curved wall separating the upper and lower lots.
Jimmy LIsle
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Nov 10 09:53:41 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 09:53:41 -0500
Subject: Obituary
In-Reply-To: <002a01ca5ea3$eec3a5c0$cc4af140$@net>
References: <4AF358E4.7010002@gmail.com> <002a01ca5ea3$eec3a5c0$cc4af140$@net>
Message-ID: <8CC302CBA366109-2CB0-9E03@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com>



Lewis A. Creasy died Monday.   Vice President ?  Superintendent ?
Board member ?  No, Mr. Creasy was one of the up-through-the
ranks stenos.  In an era when female stenos were a "no-no" on
business cars, he worked in the General Offices and on the road
performing clerical assignments for the higher-ups.

He was six years old playing in a neighbor's yard when he saw
men coming to advise his mother of his father's death.  His 
father had been engineer on 1/51 from Shenandoah on Sept 10, 1923.
Double-headed with engines 1123-1114, 1/51 entered the Rockydale
Stone siding in Roanoke and collided with cars on that track.  
ICC Report #982 indicates the switch had not been properly closed.

He was a deacon emeritus at Calvary Baptist Church and had
served as Assistant to Vice President H. E. Carter . . . .for ten years.
                                               Harry Bundy  


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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Nov 10 10:04:09 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:04:09 -0500
Subject: K-1 Tender Question 
In-Reply-To: <643884E9-035E-40AE-A542-DC02EF293C6A@rev.net>
References: <4AF6FFAF.4090607@btsrr.com>
	<643884E9-035E-40AE-A542-DC02EF293C6A@rev.net>
Message-ID: <8CC302E30A8F730-8004-11A80@webmail-m064.sysops.aol.com>


Another childhood memory if you will bear with me:

Circleville's local freights in the mid-'50's were usually powered by K-1's. I lived just 2 blocks away and I noticed one day that No 101 (I think, it was) had it's new tender - larger, shinier and really good looking. I couldn't miss that, so I hopped on my bike and headed to the Container Corporation Plant where they were switching at the time. As I approached a stop sign, I thought that since my mission was so important and that #101 had finished it's switching and was moving on down the line away from me and that all the other times I was at the intersection, there was no cross traffic that I could save a few seconds by blowing thru the stop sign. Didn't work - I remember the grillework of a '41 Ford Tudor, screeching brakes, landing on my posterior on the pavement looking back at a terrified driver's face. Lucky the Ford was about stopped when we met and I was only emotionally injured. I didn't get to see the new tender up close, but ever since, I have associated the great K-1's with my bike wreck.

In hindsite, the K-1's weren't very good switching engines, but could really scat between towns. Once a month or so, there would be an M-2 on locals and at least once it was a Z, which I deemed at the time a nifty miniature main line engine very suitable for those switching chores. I sure miss all that.

Ted Goodman
Columbus

-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Mon, Nov 9, 2009 8:31 am
Subject: Re: K-1 Tender Question 


Ex Pere Marquette 2-8-4 tanks if I recall correctly. 
 
Ken Miller 
 
On Nov 8, 2009, at 12:28 PM, NW Mailing List wrote: 
 
> The K-1s were upgraded with larger, ex-C&O tenders.... were these > tenders from the C&O 2-8-4s?? 
> Thanks 
> Bill 
> 
> --> == Scale Model Railroad Products == == Manufacturer - Retailer - > Importer == 
> Bill & Diane Wade B.T.S. RR 1 Box 141A 
> Belington, WV 26250 Phone: 304-823-3729 
> FAX: 304-823-2901 http://www.btsrr.com 
> We wish you Fair Winds and Following Seas. 
> 
> 
> ________________________________________ 
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org 
> To change your subscription go to 
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list 
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at 
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ 
 
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Nov 10 10:29:46 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:29:46 -0500
Subject: Y6B 2171
In-Reply-To: <70B316C92B034C84A119D4D05FCD5DDD@DellVostro>
References: <4AEB4EB5.3080309@vt.edu><SNT102-W456A9ADA58DD5BAC85F3EACBB60@phx.gbl><F5CAD0B9D3F62341B4B6EA482A168E5FD28AB88B55@SWEC9965.w-intra.net><125A79E0AD6A4A95A22A8ED65FAB9623@lewisdl0ls5whv><F5CAD0B9D3F62341B4B6EA482A168E5FD28AB88B59@SWEC9965.w-intra.net><CA0206A490F5476389754B32C3B742A5@DellVostro>
	<04F1DF013003034193915EE0CCEA9A913BECC40F@SWEC9924.w-intra.net>
	<70B316C92B034C84A119D4D05FCD5DDD@DellVostro>
Message-ID: <04F1DF013003034193915EE0CCEA9A913BECC41B@SWEC9924.w-intra.net>

Thanks Gordon............
Ed

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 8:14 PM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Y6B 2171

Ed,

You are right about the different stack talks of the Y's vis a vis the A's, but as best as I recall the sounds from both locos blended in a caphony that echoed off the roundhouse wall and other objects so that it wasn't obvious which sound came from which locomotive.  Anyway, what I remember mainly is the different exhaust angles of the two loco classes.

I don't know whether it was necessary for the Y's to start out of West Yard in simple, but I think by the time they came by the roundhouse they were above the speed for simple operation.

Gordon Hamilton
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Mailing List<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List'<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 10:34 AM
Subject: RE: Y6B 2171

Gordon,
If the locomotives were showing smoke and or steam as they passed wouldn't the difference in each locomotive's stack talk also be  give-a-way?  Wouldn't the front and rear engine's 2 separate exhausts from the "simple " Class-A per rotation (with the 2 engines seldom being in sync) be distinguishable from the single exhaust of the "compound" Y-Class per rotation (rear high pressure engine cylinders exhausting to the front lower pressure engine cylinders which than exhausted through the smoke box and out the stack - unless operating in simple) ?  Or   - When starting the trains like this did the Y begin by working in simple?

Best regards,
Ed Painter - Narrows, VA - living in Russellville, AR

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, November 03, 2009 7:07 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Y6B 2171

This slanted stack discussion reminds me of a small experience that I had the summer of 1956 when I worked at the Shaffers Crossing roundhouse before I was so rudely drafted into the Army for a couple of years.  Whenever an eastbound coal train would pull out of the west yard and accelerate up the slight grade leading to the 24th Street underpass with a Y6 leading an A, a lot of the work in the roundhouse would stop momentarily as a number of the men would rush to the open windows to watch the awesome display of power.  Sometimes there would be a train standing on the track between the roundhouse and the track on which the coal train was departing, pretty well blocking the view of the eastbound except for the tops of the locomotives.  That was when I discovered that the Y6 exhausts were angled forward whereas the A exhausts went straight up.  So, without being able to see the locomotives themselves, I could confirm from the exhausts that the Y6 was leading the A.

Gordon Hamilton
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Mailing List<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List'<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: Y6B 2171

Bud,

Thanks...........You know, after I sent the email I had some second thoughts and wished that I had validated the slanted stack comment before I sent it.  Obviously I should have done so.  Thanks for correcting my error.

Ed Painter;  Narrows, VA currently Russellville, AR


From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:26 AM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Y6B 2171

Ed,

The Y6 and Y6a all had the slanted stack just like the Y6b.

Bud Jeffries
----- Original Message -----
From: NW Mailing List<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List'<mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, November 02, 2009 10:50 AM
Subject: RE: Y6B 2171

The Y-6b's most distinguishing feature compared to Y-6's and Y-6a's was the Worthington SA Feedwater Heater on top of the smokebox in front or the (Y-6b only) slanted forward smoke stack.


From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org<mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Friday, October 30, 2009 3:58 PM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: RE: Y6B 2171

The Y6a has two air pumps on the engineer's side, with a BL feedwater heater on the fireman's side .  The Y6b has an air pump on each side.

James Jarvis

> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 16:38:13 -0400
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Subject: RE: Y6B 2171
> From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
>
> I too saw them in 1973. And while my slides are marked "Virginia Scrap
> Iron", United works for me. Attached are some photos.
> How can one distinguish between a Y6 and Y6b in the state these locos
> were in?
>
>
> Don Trettel
>
> [Moderator]
> See images at following:
> http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=69
> http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=70
> http://nwhs.org/wiki/tiki-browse_image.php?imageId=71
>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
________________________________
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________________________________
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Nov 10 14:07:10 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:07:10 -0500
Subject: Obituary
In-Reply-To: <8CC302CBA366109-2CB0-9E03@webmail-d070.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <20091110190710.DR2FF.82543.root@hrndva-web15-z01>

I remember him from working in the MP department back in ought-57 or so.

A heck of a nice guy.

EdKing
---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 
> 
> 
> Lewis A. Creasy died Monday.   Vice President ?  Superintendent ?
> Board member ?  No, Mr. Creasy was one of the up-through-the
> ranks stenos.  In an era when female stenos were a "no-no" on
> business cars, he worked in the General Offices and on the road
> performing clerical assignments for the higher-ups.
> 
> He was six years old playing in a neighbor's yard when he saw
> men coming to advise his mother of his father's death.  His 
> father had been engineer on 1/51 from Shenandoah on Sept 10, 1923.
> Double-headed with engines 1123-1114, 1/51 entered the Rockydale
> Stone siding in Roanoke and collided with cars on that track.  
> ICC Report #982 indicates the switch had not been properly closed.
> 
> He was a deacon emeritus at Calvary Baptist Church and had
> served as Assistant to Vice President H. E. Carter . . . .for ten years.
>                                                Harry Bundy  
> 
> 


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Nov 10 15:11:07 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:11:07 GMT
Subject: Replacement Signal Light Bulbs
Message-ID: <20091110.151107.12445.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>

Listers,
Does any one know what the type/number is for light bulbs in an Union Dwarf Signal?  We have a dwarf signal at the Railway Museum of Greater Cincinnati that is said to be from Portsmouth Yard in Ohio.  One of the bulbs went out the other day.  After checking it and the others in the signal the only info I have is: GE, 13.5 volts, 17 watts, bayonet base.  I've tried to locate a similiar bulb on the Internet but haven't been succesful.  Is this type still made or has it been changed over to a different voltage?  Any help will be appreciated.
Dave Moorehead
Milford, Ohio
____________________________________________________________
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Nov 10 15:57:58 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:57:58 EST
Subject: Replacement Signal Light Bulbs
Message-ID: <d36.58eec334.382b2dd6@aol.com>

Dave,
 
Checking the GE Lamp Products Catalog, the only thing I can find close to  
what you describe is a # 18S11/1SC.  This is a single contact bayonet  base 
(SC), 18 watts and rated at 10 volts.  It's listed usage is  "Railway Signal 
Light - Clear"
 
Hope this helps.
 
Tom Bosquet
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Nov 10 16:12:41 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:12:41 EST
Subject: Replacement Signal Light Bulbs
Message-ID: <d62.47fd401e.382b3149@aol.com>

GO TO GE LIGHTING ON INTERNET
 
 
In a message dated 11/10/2009 3:39:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:

Listers, 
Does any one know what the type/number is for light bulbs in an Union  
Dwarf Signal?  We have a dwarf signal at the Railway Museum of  Greater 
Cincinnati that is said to be from Portsmouth Yard in Ohio.   One of the bulbs went 
out the other day.  After checking it and the  others in the signal the only 
info I have is: GE, 13.5 volts, 17 watts,  bayonet base.  I've tried to 
locate a similiar bulb on the Internet but  haven't been succesful.  Is this 
type still made or has it been changed  over to a different voltage?  Any help 
will be appreciated. 
Dave Moorehead
Milford, Ohio

____________________________________________________________  
_Free Copier Price Quotes
Get free copier price quotes from  multiple dealers and  save!_ 
(http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2132/c?cp=P8m-4hYjzuoSgzQPcqx7MgAAJz0EfYvq2cf24k6W9
nXC_g23AAQAAAAFAAAAAPLSTT4AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABIVZAAAAAA=) 




________________________________________
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To  change your subscription go  to
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Nov 10 18:16:37 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:16:37 -0500
Subject: Replacement Signal Light Bulbs
In-Reply-To: <20091110.151107.12445.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>
References: <20091110.151107.12445.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <008201ca625b$db8394a0$928abde0$@net>

What voltage power supply do you use?  I have a B&O dwarf signal and have
used 12 volt automobile bulbs in it, which seem to work well.  

 

Bob McKell

Chillicothe, Ohio

 

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:11 PM
To: NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
Subject: Replacement Signal Light Bulbs

 

Listers,

Does any one know what the type/number is for light bulbs in an Union Dwarf
Signal?  We have a dwarf signal at the Railway Museum of Greater Cincinnati
that is said to be from Portsmouth Yard in Ohio.  One of the bulbs went out
the other day.  After checking it and the others in the signal the only info
I have is: GE, 13.5 volts, 17 watts, bayonet base.  I've tried to locate a
similiar bulb on the Internet but haven't been succesful.  Is this type
still made or has it been changed over to a different voltage?  Any help
will be appreciated.

Dave Moorehead
Milford, Ohio



____________________________________________________________ 
Free Copier Price Quotes
<http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2132/c?cp=P8m-4hYjzuoSgzQPcqx7MgAAJz0Ef
Yvq2cf24k6W9nXC_g23AAQAAAAFAAAAAPLSTT4AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABIVZAAAAAA=> 
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Nov 10 19:34:26 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 19:34:26 -0500
Subject: Replacement Signal Light Bulbs
In-Reply-To: <d62.47fd401e.382b3149@aol.com>
References: <d62.47fd401e.382b3149@aol.com>
Message-ID: <8CC307DDBB5A7E5-1480-233DC@webmail-m014.sysops.aol.com>


 Try a good lighting supply house and see if they can look it up.  Brad Clauser

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Sent: Tue, Nov 10, 2009 4:12 pm
Subject: Re: Replacement Signal Light Bulbs














GO TO GE LIGHTING ON INTERNET


 




In a message dated 11/10/2009 3:39:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org writes:



  
Listers,

  
Does any one know what the type/number is for light bulbs in an Union 
  Dwarf Signal?  We have a dwarf signal at the Railway Museum of 
  Greater Cincinnati that is said to be from Portsmouth Yard in Ohio.  
  One of the bulbs went out the other day.  After checking it and the 
  others in the signal the only info I have is: GE, 13.5 volts, 17 watts, 
  bayonet base.  I've tried to locate a similiar bulb on the Internet but 
  haven't been succesful.  Is this type still made or has it been changed 
  over to a different voltage?  Any help will be appreciated.

  
Dave Moorehead
Milford, Ohio


____________________________________________________________ 
  
Free Copier Price Quotes
Get free copier price quotes from 
  multiple dealers and 
  save!


________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To 
  change your subscription go 
  to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
Browse the 
  NW-Mailing-List archives 
  at
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


 





________________________________________
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Nov 10 20:13:01 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:13:01 -0500
Subject: Replacement Signal Light Bulbs
References: <20091110.151107.12445.0@webmail07.vgs.untd.com>
Message-ID: <AF4A00F713D34B62AD76D76A3D902EBA@StudyComputer>

Dave
   If you are using 10-12 volts . The easiest way is to just use 1156 autobulbs
a whole lot cheaper than signal bulbs. You can buy a dozen for what you would pay
for a signal bulb.

Larry Evans
Kenova,WV
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 3:11 PM
  Subject: Replacement Signal Light Bulbs


  Listers,

  Does any one know what the type/number is for light bulbs in an Union Dwarf Signal?  We have a dwarf signal at the Railway Museum of Greater Cincinnati that is said to be from Portsmouth Yard in Ohio.  One of the bulbs went out the other day.  After checking it and the others in the signal the only info I have is: GE, 13.5 volts, 17 watts, bayonet base.  I've tried to locate a similiar bulb on the Internet but haven't been succesful.  Is this type still made or has it been changed over to a different voltage?  Any help will be appreciated.

  Dave Moorehead
  Milford, Ohio



  ____________________________________________________________ 
  Free Copier Price Quotes
  Get free copier price quotes from multiple dealers and save!



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  To change your subscription go to
  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Tue Nov 10 22:01:38 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:01:38 -0500
Subject: Virginian in 1910--Princeton shops
Message-ID: <F641E25258B3411C99FF973A8499CFBA@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
May 17, 1910
(Tuesday)

VIRGINIAN REPAIR WORK
------
Will All be Done in Princeton Shops
Which Open Last of Week
    The shops at Princeton will, according to official advices, open the last of this week, enough men being put to work to get the repair work up.  Additional men will be put on as they are needed.  It is the intention to have all repair work done at Princeton.
    At the present time the road is averaging 125 to 130 cars per day and it has considerable business which it carried from other railroads.  An official was asked yesterday to verify the statements that the New York Central would take over the road and said he had seen such reports in the newspapers but did not know anything about them.  He said if Mr. Rogers had lived, it would not be a question of who would get the Virginian, but rather who would the Virginian get.
------
Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 07:05:38 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 7:05:38 -0500
Subject: Replacement signal light bulbs
Message-ID: <20091111120538.8MDTX.7992.root@hrndva-web03-z01>

You can use an 1156 backup light bulb in the signal. The bulbs the railroad use are 10 volt 18 watt signal precision bulbs that are VERY $pendy. If you need that type bulb, contact a local signal maintainer and tell him what you are doing. You might get one from him.

Larry S.
N&W Signalman

From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 10:33:45 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:33:45 -0500
Subject: Veterans Day 2009
Message-ID: <A56ACE9EF16A4AB692EC4CDAFD5BB2B3@Gene>

Veterans Day 2009
Mr. Hamilton, Mr. Jeffries, Mr. Newton, and all of you Gentlemen who sacrificed, and served, or you who are now serving our Nation. 
I thank you for  all that you have done.

Gene Arnold
Gloucester, Va.
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 10:39:01 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:39:01 -0500
Subject: Steam questions
References: <4AF65846.2010707@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFB0FEC7C7764372B382A0C9D413F27E@DellVostro>

Nathan,

In addition to what others have furnished on the two types of throttle 
levers on N&W steam locos, a few more comments  may help.

Older N&W steam locos used the "horizontal" throttle levers, which were 
pivoted to the left (toward the fireman) of the vertical centerline of the 
boiler and which were pinned to a rod (or stem) that typically passed 
through a stuffing box on the boiler backhead on the vertical centerline of 
the boiler and above the crown sheet.  This rod reached through the boiler 
to a bell crank under the steam dome, and the other arm of the bell crank 
raised or lowered the throttle valve when the rod from the throttle lever in 
the cab moved forward or backwards, respectively.  I can think of two 
problems with this throttle arrangement.  One, the sliding action of the rod 
in the stuffing box on the backhead probably caused more wear on the packing 
than the rotary action of the shaft in the stuffing box leading to a 
dome-mounted throttle operated by the outside throttle linkage (and a 
vertical throttle).  Two, with the throttle lever in the "off" position, 
expansion and contraction of the boiler might be different than the 
expansion and contraction of the rod through the boiler raising the throttle 
valve just enough to leak steam to the cylinders, which could cause the 
locomotive to "walk away."  This happened at times.  The more modern 
arrangement of the outside linkage associated with vertical throttle levers 
largely avoided this problem by incorporating a rocker lever mid way between 
the throttle lever and the throttle valve to provide compensation for the 
expansion and contraction of the boiler.

Gordon Hamilton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:33 AM
Subject: Steam questions


> Alright gang I'm back with more questions, Both are for the most part
> quick and hopefully simple. First what orientation did N&W prefer for
> the throttles of their steam locomotives? Horizontal or Vertical? I
> think the J and A both had Vertical oriented but I am not sure if that
> was N&W preference of just what they used on those locomotives for some
> reason.
>
> Second Question is a little harder but I feel it will be easy for
> someone to answer. In listening to Link's recording of  Y6 working
> Waynesboro, at time I hear a distinct "thump thump thump" that is
> rythimic then it quits then it does it again. It does not sound like a
> Cross Compound to me so I am buffaloed as to what it is, Feedwater pump
> perhaps? I head the same sound in Hooters on Blues ridge when there is a
> Y doing Switching at Blue Ridge. It happens while the locomotive is
> still moving but the throttle seems to be closed and the engine coasting.
>
> Thanks ahead of time,
> Nathan
>
> -- 
> Nathan Simmons
> trainman51 at gmail.com
> http://www.t-51.org
> KI4MSK
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 11:47:12 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:47:12 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Clerks strike
Message-ID: <B15732DFEE2E4963B371A57C0E0A4FD1@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
May 18, 1910

RAILWAY CLERKS STRIKE
OUT ALL OVER SYSTEM
------
Demand Recognition of Union Which Norfolk and Western Refuses to Concede--Only Five Out in Bluefield
    The Brotherhood of Railway Clerks struck yesterday afternoon at 2:30 and as a result men are out in this city, at Vivian, Elkhorn, Keystone, Williamson, St. Paul, Coeburn, Tazewell, East Radford, Roanoke and other points which it was impossible to hear from last night.
    To counteract the effect of the strike it leaked out from an official source last night that the Norfolk and Western will replace the men who have quit and will also discharge a number of others who have been prominent in the strike work.
    The demands of the strikers are that the Norfolk and Western adopt a schedule presented by the clerk's union in which the clerks ask that the men receive equal wages for equal work and also ask for promotion according to merit, the men having the opportunity to apply for vacancies according to their seniority, the same as is done by other orders.  The men also want to have the privilege of allowing the union to settle their disputes and bring any grievances which may arise during the term of the contract.  The union claims to represent ninety per cent of the men on the railroad payroll as clerical help outside of the general offices and shops at Roanoke.  A man who is prominent in the union said last night that these are 535 men in the order.
[The remainder of the article on the microfilm was too blurred to transcribe.  The number 535 was also blurred, but the best interpretation is shown.]
------

IN CITY AND COALFIELD
------
First General Strike
    Not a single railroad man could be found here last night who remembered a time when the Norfolk and Western ever had a strike on its hands before in which any order or union called the men out all over the road.  About five years ago there was a strike in which the Southern Express Company men and agents took part.  So, the Norfolk and Western, as far as could be determined last night, was neutral in that matter.
[Some words were blurred on the microfilm.  The best interpretations are shown.]

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 13:01:14 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:01:14 -0500
Subject: Veterans Day 2009
References: <A56ACE9EF16A4AB692EC4CDAFD5BB2B3@Gene>
Message-ID: <986244B80C2D4D97999C7FC478D8A8FC@lewisdl0ls5whv>

I thank you for your kind and thoughtful remarks on this Veterans Day 2009.

May we also remember those in service to our country today and keep them in our thoughts and prayers. Now our armed forces are engaged in a very difficult conflict. Not only are our service members in harm's way, but the national attitude and resolve make it even more difficult for them and their families.

Bud Jeffries
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: NW Mailing List 
  To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:33 AM
  Subject: Veterans Day 2009


  Veterans Day 2009
  Mr. Hamilton, Mr. Jeffries, Mr. Newton, and all of you Gentlemen who sacrificed, and served, or you who are now serving our Nation. 
  I thank you for  all that you have done.

  Gene Arnold
  Gloucester, Va.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
  To change your subscription go to
  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 11:35:11 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:35:11 -0500
Subject: Steam questions
In-Reply-To: <BFB0FEC7C7764372B382A0C9D413F27E@DellVostro>
Message-ID: <20091111163511.ITT4G.438558.root@hrndva-web23-z01>

To expand on what Gordon Hamilton wrote about throttles - 

M's and W's and other engines whose cabs were mounted astraddle of the firebox had their throttles on top of the boiler for convenient handling by the engineer.  These throttles operated a rod that went directly above the top of the boiler into the back of the steam dome (through a packing gland)where the actual throttle was located.  The throttles described by Mr. Hamilton were on the E-2s, K-2 and K-2as M-2s and subclasses and earlier Mallets up through the Y-4s.

EdKing
---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 
> Nathan,
> 
> In addition to what others have furnished on the two types of throttle 
> levers on N&W steam locos, a few more comments  may help.
> 
> Older N&W steam locos used the "horizontal" throttle levers, which were 
> pivoted to the left (toward the fireman) of the vertical centerline of the 
> boiler and which were pinned to a rod (or stem) that typically passed 
> through a stuffing box on the boiler backhead on the vertical centerline of 
> the boiler and above the crown sheet.  This rod reached through the boiler 
> to a bell crank under the steam dome, and the other arm of the bell crank 
> raised or lowered the throttle valve when the rod from the throttle lever in 
> the cab moved forward or backwards, respectively.  I can think of two 
> problems with this throttle arrangement.  One, the sliding action of the rod 
> in the stuffing box on the backhead probably caused more wear on the packing 
> than the rotary action of the shaft in the stuffing box leading to a 
> dome-mounted throttle operated by the outside throttle linkage (and a 
> vertical throttle).  Two, with the throttle lever in the "off" position, 
> expansion and contraction of the boiler might be different than the 
> expansion and contraction of the rod through the boiler raising the throttle 
> valve just enough to leak steam to the cylinders, which could cause the 
> locomotive to "walk away."  This happened at times.  The more modern 
> arrangement of the outside linkage associated with vertical throttle levers 
> largely avoided this problem by incorporating a rocker lever mid way between 
> the throttle lever and the throttle valve to provide compensation for the 
> expansion and contraction of the boiler.
> 
> Gordon Hamilton
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:33 AM
> Subject: Steam questions
> 
> 
> > Alright gang I'm back with more questions, Both are for the most part
> > quick and hopefully simple. First what orientation did N&W prefer for
> > the throttles of their steam locomotives? Horizontal or Vertical? I
> > think the J and A both had Vertical oriented but I am not sure if that
> > was N&W preference of just what they used on those locomotives for some
> > reason.
> >
> > Second Question is a little harder but I feel it will be easy for
> > someone to answer. In listening to Link's recording of  Y6 working
> > Waynesboro, at time I hear a distinct "thump thump thump" that is
> > rythimic then it quits then it does it again. It does not sound like a
> > Cross Compound to me so I am buffaloed as to what it is, Feedwater pump
> > perhaps? I head the same sound in Hooters on Blues ridge when there is a
> > Y doing Switching at Blue Ridge. It happens while the locomotive is
> > still moving but the throttle seems to be closed and the engine coasting.
> >
> > Thanks ahead of time,
> > Nathan
> >
> > -- 
> > Nathan Simmons
> > trainman51 at gmail.com
> > http://www.t-51.org
> > KI4MSK
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> > To change your subscription go to
> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.53/2486 - Release Date: 11/07/09 
> 07:38:00
> 
> ________________________________________
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 13:12:15 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:12:15 -0500
Subject: Steam questions
In-Reply-To: <BFB0FEC7C7764372B382A0C9D413F27E@DellVostro>
References: <4AF65846.2010707@gmail.com>
	<BFB0FEC7C7764372B382A0C9D413F27E@DellVostro>
Message-ID: <73E1DE21-E0E4-4790-9317-7A2B5D0F3902@earthlink.net>

I have a question!   In regards to the Y5's with a Bradford Front End  
throttle, why was it there and not in the steam dome? Did it provide a  
shorter path to the front engine when in Simple?

MArk Lindsey
Stuck in the 1930's

On Nov 11, 2009, at 10:39 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

Nathan,

In addition to what others have furnished on the two types of throttle  
levers on N&W steam locos, a few more comments  may help.

Older N&W steam locos used the "horizontal" throttle levers, which  
were pivoted to the left (toward the fireman) of the vertical  
centerline of the boiler and which were pinned to a rod (or stem) that  
typically passed through a stuffing box on the boiler backhead on the  
vertical centerline of the boiler and above the crown sheet.  This rod  
reached through the boiler to a bell crank under the steam dome, and  
the other arm of the bell crank raised or lowered the throttle valve  
when the rod from the throttle lever in the cab moved forward or  
backwards, respectively.  I can think of two problems with this  
throttle arrangement.  One, the sliding action of the rod in the  
stuffing box on the backhead probably caused more wear on the packing  
than the rotary action of the shaft in the stuffing box leading to a  
dome-mounted throttle operated by the outside throttle linkage (and a  
vertical throttle).  Two, with the throttle lever in the "off"  
position, expansion and contraction of the boiler might be different  
than the expansion and contraction of the rod through the boiler  
raising the throttle valve just enough to leak steam to the cylinders,  
which could cause the locomotive to "walk away."  This happened at  
times.  The more modern arrangement of the outside linkage associated  
with vertical throttle levers largely avoided this problem by  
incorporating a rocker lever mid way between the throttle lever and  
the throttle valve to provide compensation for the expansion and  
contraction of the boiler.

Gordon Hamilton

----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org 
 >
To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:33 AM
Subject: Steam questions


> Alright gang I'm back with more questions, Both are for the most part
> quick and hopefully simple. First what orientation did N&W prefer for
> the throttles of their steam locomotives? Horizontal or Vertical? I
> think the J and A both had Vertical oriented but I am not sure if that
> was N&W preference of just what they used on those locomotives for  
> some
> reason.
>
> Second Question is a little harder but I feel it will be easy for
> someone to answer. In listening to Link's recording of  Y6 working
> Waynesboro, at time I hear a distinct "thump thump thump" that is
> rythimic then it quits then it does it again. It does not sound like a
> Cross Compound to me so I am buffaloed as to what it is, Feedwater  
> pump
> perhaps? I head the same sound in Hooters on Blues ridge when there  
> is a
> Y doing Switching at Blue Ridge. It happens while the locomotive is
> still moving but the throttle seems to be closed and the engine  
> coasting.
>
> Thanks ahead of time,
> Nathan
>
> -- 
> Nathan Simmons
> trainman51 at gmail.com
> http://www.t-51.org
> KI4MSK
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.53/2486 - Release Date:  
11/07/09 07:38:00

________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 13:31:41 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:31:41 -0500
Subject: Steam questions
References: <20091111163511.ITT4G.438558.root@hrndva-web23-z01>
Message-ID: <03FBACBFFA964ABD9D89CC8A23A41015@DellVostro>

Ed,

Thanks for pointing out the other arrangement for the horizontal throttles. 
After I hit the send button I thought of the W's and M's with the firebox 
that extended so far back into the cab as to separate the engineer and 
fireman, and I realized that those throttles had to be ahead of the boiler 
backhead.

Gordon Hamilton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Steam questions


> To expand on what Gordon Hamilton wrote about throttles -
>
> M's and W's and other engines whose cabs were mounted astraddle of the 
> firebox had their throttles on top of the boiler for convenient handling 
> by the engineer.  These throttles operated a rod that went directly above 
> the top of the boiler into the back of the steam dome (through a packing 
> gland)where the actual throttle was located.  The throttles described by 
> Mr. Hamilton were on the E-2s, K-2 and K-2as M-2s and subclasses and 
> earlier Mallets up through the Y-4s.
>
> EdKing
> ---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>> Nathan,
>>
>> In addition to what others have furnished on the two types of throttle
>> levers on N&W steam locos, a few more comments  may help.
>>
>> Older N&W steam locos used the "horizontal" throttle levers, which were
>> pivoted to the left (toward the fireman) of the vertical centerline of 
>> the
>> boiler and which were pinned to a rod (or stem) that typically passed
>> through a stuffing box on the boiler backhead on the vertical centerline 
>> of
>> the boiler and above the crown sheet.  This rod reached through the 
>> boiler
>> to a bell crank under the steam dome, and the other arm of the bell crank
>> raised or lowered the throttle valve when the rod from the throttle lever 
>> in
>> the cab moved forward or backwards, respectively.  I can think of two
>> problems with this throttle arrangement.  One, the sliding action of the 
>> rod
>> in the stuffing box on the backhead probably caused more wear on the 
>> packing
>> than the rotary action of the shaft in the stuffing box leading to a
>> dome-mounted throttle operated by the outside throttle linkage (and a
>> vertical throttle).  Two, with the throttle lever in the "off" position,
>> expansion and contraction of the boiler might be different than the
>> expansion and contraction of the rod through the boiler raising the 
>> throttle
>> valve just enough to leak steam to the cylinders, which could cause the
>> locomotive to "walk away."  This happened at times.  The more modern
>> arrangement of the outside linkage associated with vertical throttle 
>> levers
>> largely avoided this problem by incorporating a rocker lever mid way 
>> between
>> the throttle lever and the throttle valve to provide compensation for the
>> expansion and contraction of the boiler.
>>
>> Gordon Hamilton
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:33 AM
>> Subject: Steam questions
>>
>>
>> > Alright gang I'm back with more questions, Both are for the most part
>> > quick and hopefully simple. First what orientation did N&W prefer for
>> > the throttles of their steam locomotives? Horizontal or Vertical? I
>> > think the J and A both had Vertical oriented but I am not sure if that
>> > was N&W preference of just what they used on those locomotives for some
>> > reason.
>> >
>> > Second Question is a little harder but I feel it will be easy for
>> > someone to answer. In listening to Link's recording of  Y6 working
>> > Waynesboro, at time I hear a distinct "thump thump thump" that is
>> > rythimic then it quits then it does it again. It does not sound like a
>> > Cross Compound to me so I am buffaloed as to what it is, Feedwater pump
>> > perhaps? I head the same sound in Hooters on Blues ridge when there is 
>> > a
>> > Y doing Switching at Blue Ridge. It happens while the locomotive is
>> > still moving but the throttle seems to be closed and the engine 
>> > coasting.
>> >
>> > Thanks ahead of time,
>> > Nathan
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > Nathan Simmons
>> > trainman51 at gmail.com
>> > http://www.t-51.org
>> > KI4MSK
>> >
>> > ________________________________________
>> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> > To change your subscription go to
>> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.53/2486 - Release Date: 
>> 11/07/09
>> 07:38:00
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.704 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2496 - Release Date: 11/11/09 
02:40:00


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 14:02:10 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:02:10 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
Message-ID: <167831.68303.qm@web23901.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Interesting information / stories. I've been aware of the Kingston hill and the fact that it was an operational challenge - but I was unaware that unaware that it was so severe. 

It surprises me that the tonnage was such that the trains regularly slowed to 5mph. I would think that the chance of stalling would have been pretty high.    

Matt Goodman
Columbus, OH


On Nov 9, 2009, at 10:04 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Thanks.  I was growing up in the 1930s and evidently wasn?t aware of the helpers.  I remember walking behind the 5 mph coal drags with my brothers just north of Chillicothe.

 

Bob McKell

 

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 9:06 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

 

   Unfortunately not.  I do know my Grandfather used to ride the helpers up the hill to Kingston.  He then used a portable telegraph unit to check on train movements to ensure it was safe to back down the hill to Chillicothe.  The sidings used were the ones at Delano.   It's just off Route 159 north of the Hospital.  As far as time frame, as a guess I'd say in the 1910s to 1930s.  They were using Z1s and the early Y series then and they just didn't have enough power to pull that hill alone. 

   When I was about 10 my dad worked at Kingston as an Railway Express Agent.  A friend and I would walk south down the hill and wait for a coal drag.  When we thought the engineer couldn't see us we would hop a coal car and ride to the top of the hill.  Even with the 1200s on the head end the train would only be going about 5 miles an hour when we hopped off south of the Depot so dad couldn't see what we had done. 

 

Jack Lemon


-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 9:25 am
Subject: RE: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

To the gentleman who responded to Nathan Simmons about the Scioto Division:  Do you know the dates the N&W used helpers on the Kingston hill west of Chillicothe?  I don?t remember them.

 

Bob McKell

Chillicothe, Ohio

 

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:55 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

 

   Nathan, I grew up in the Scioto Division and my father and grandfather were Operator/Levermen at the various interlocking towers throughout the division.  Since I lived in Ohio at the end of the westbound line I don't know a lot about the division east of Portsmouth.

 

   The Scioto Division began west of Williamson and ran to Columbus, Ohio with a branch to Cincinnati, Ohio.  There was a big classification yard at Portsmouth.  From there it was doubletracked all the way to Columbus where there were two yards.   Watkins Yard was at the South end of Columbus and was where all coal drags were broken down for interchange with the C & O, the PRR and the NYC.  There was a small exchange yard next to Watkins for the C & O.  It was called Mozelle Yard.  It had about 6 tracks if I recall correctly.  The other yard in Columbus was Joyce Avenue Yard.  This was the actual end of the N & W until the merger with NKP in the mid 60s.  This was the freight and passenger yard.  The line from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Valley.

 

   There was a 14 mile grade between Chillicothe, Ohio and Kingston, Ohio that required helpers.  They were kept at a siding just north of Chillicothe and ran to Kingston and backed down the hill to Chillicothe.

 

   Somtime in the late 50s or early 60s they removed a section of the double track main between Waverly, Ohio and Chillicothe, Ohio.  That move never made sense to me.

 

  The interchanges were at Waverly, Ohio at Glen Jean Tower with the DT & I.  In Chillicothe, Ohio at Renick Tower with the MCRR (Marietta, Cincinnati RailRoad) which was later the CH & D ( Cincinnati, Hamilton and Dayton) and finally I believe it was the B & O.  At Circleville, Ohio the interchange was with the PRR and was controlled by Circleville Tower.  At Valley Crossing, Ohio it was with the HVRR (Hocking Valley Railroad) which later became part of the C  & O and was controlled by Valley Crossing Tower.  Bannon Tower at the north end of Watkins yard controlled an interchange with the PRR.  

 

   Just at the north end of Portsmouth, Ohio was a branch line to Cincinnati, Ohio.  It was called the Peavine.  It was single track with lots of curves and at least one grade, between Lawshe and Winchester, that required helpers until the Class As showed up.  It ended at Claire Yard in Cincinnati. 

 

   My Great Grandfather was a Hostler in Chillicothe, Ohio for the MCRR.  My Grandfather and my Father worked at the yards in Portsmouth and at the towers in Glen Jean, Renick, Circleville, Valley Crossing and Bannon.  I used to go to work with him during the summer months.  I saw the 1200s, 2100s, 1100s, and even saw Jawn Henry once.  The passenger engines were not the Northeren 4-8-4, 600 series.  I believe they were shrouded 2-8-4s.  Was it a K2?.  The train that ran from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Cavalier and its engine was numbered in the 120s.

 

  This is all from memory and I'm 67. So if I gaffed please forgive me, but I think I'm reasonably accurate. 


From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NWHS <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 5:59 pm
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

It seems the older I get the more I wish I could have lived in the past to see the Y6s, As, and Js. I guess it is the History buff in me. (After all I'm only 23). This email I m sending so that I can learn some more about the Divisions west of Roanoke as well as to show ya'll my my photos from this past weekend which was a trip west of Bluefield. 
 
So here goes, I know the Pulaski District came off at Walton and went down to Bristol. I know the Main to Bluefield was double track this far, and I know that it is Double Tracked from Narrows to Bluefield. Now my question is was it double track between Walton and Narrows back in the 50s? 
 
As for the Pocahontas Division I know it had the Clinch Valley and Pocahontas District, as well as many branches. But my questions are mainly for the Pocahontas district. Exactly how far was it electrified? I have read to Vivian and I have read Iaeger. I know electrification ended when the new alignment came about which was 1950 right? Now for the Kicker, where exactly did the old alignment go? This weekend I was on the Pocahontas and made it to the west end of Elkhorn Tunnel and I think I was able to spot the Old alignment to the North of the current one, it was higher and was across the hollow. So where did it tie into everything on the East side of the hill? I ask because I was in Coopers as well. 
 
Now for the Last question, Where exactly did the Scioto Division begin? What all did it include? and what division is it part of in todays NS System? 
 
Here is the photo album from this weekend: 
*http://tinyurl.com/pokey-oct09* 
 
Oh one last question, this is for you Virginian folks. Right now the Virginian connects to the Christiansburg district at Narrows. Now I suspect that the PD district that comes off the Christiansburg at PD jct is also old Virginian am I correct on my assumption? and I also assume if I am correct that the Virginian originally went stright through, and that N&W abandoned the section between Narrows and PD jct. after the merger. Is the correct or am I all wrong? Please educate me. 
 
Thanks in advance, 
Nathan 
 
PS I hope I didn't ask too many "Duh" questions, and I would research it myself. But at the moment I don't have the time. However after I get caught up on things I plan to do some research on some stuff. One thing being the Dry Fork Branch. 
 
-- Nathan Simmons 
trainman51 at gmail.com 
http://www.t-51.org 
KI4MSK 
 
________________________________________ 
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 16:31:22 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:31:22 -0500
Subject: Veterans Day 2009
References: <mailman.102.1257971979.58645.nw-mailing-list@nwhs.org>
Message-ID: <002f01ca6316$512526a0$e430fea9@lmnewton>

Thanks to Gene Arnold for his remembrance of Veterans Day.

I agree with Bud Jeffries that the current members of our armed forces and 
their families should continue to be in our thoughts and prayers.  They are 
serving under extremely difficcult condtions.

Louis Newton
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org>
To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:39 PM
Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 49, Issue 25


> Send NW-Mailing-List mailing list submissions to
> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/nw-mailing-list
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> nw-mailing-list-owner at nwhs.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of NW-Mailing-List digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. N&W in 1910--Clerks strike (NW Mailing List)
>   2. Re: Veterans Day 2009 (NW Mailing List)
>   3. Re: Steam questions (NW Mailing List)
>   4. Re: Steam questions (NW Mailing List)
>   5. Re: Steam questions (NW Mailing List)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:47:12 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: N&W in 1910--Clerks strike
> To: "3N&W Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <B15732DFEE2E4963B371A57C0E0A4FD1 at DellVostro>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Bluefield Daily Telegraph
> May 18, 1910
>
> RAILWAY CLERKS STRIKE
> OUT ALL OVER SYSTEM
> ------
> Demand Recognition of Union Which Norfolk and Western Refuses to 
> Concede--Only Five Out in Bluefield
>    The Brotherhood of Railway Clerks struck yesterday afternoon at 2:30 
> and as a result men are out in this city, at Vivian, Elkhorn, Keystone, 
> Williamson, St. Paul, Coeburn, Tazewell, East Radford, Roanoke and other 
> points which it was impossible to hear from last night.
>    To counteract the effect of the strike it leaked out from an official 
> source last night that the Norfolk and Western will replace the men who 
> have quit and will also discharge a number of others who have been 
> prominent in the strike work.
>    The demands of the strikers are that the Norfolk and Western adopt a 
> schedule presented by the clerk's union in which the clerks ask that the 
> men receive equal wages for equal work and also ask for promotion 
> according to merit, the men having the opportunity to apply for vacancies 
> according to their seniority, the same as is done by other orders.  The 
> men also want to have the privilege of allowing the union to settle their 
> disputes and bring any grievances which may arise during the term of the 
> contract.  The union claims to represent ninety per cent of the men on the 
> railroad payroll as clerical help outside of the general offices and shops 
> at Roanoke.  A man who is prominent in the union said last night that 
> these are 535 men in the order.
> [The remainder of the article on the microfilm was too blurred to 
> transcribe.  The number 535 was also blurred, but the best interpretation 
> is shown.]
> ------
>
> IN CITY AND COALFIELD
> ------
> First General Strike
>    Not a single railroad man could be found here last night who remembered 
> a time when the Norfolk and Western ever had a strike on its hands before 
> in which any order or union called the men out all over the road.  About 
> five years ago there was a strike in which the Southern Express Company 
> men and agents took part.  So, the Norfolk and Western, as far as could be 
> determined last night, was neutral in that matter.
> [Some words were blurred on the microfilm.  The best interpretations are 
> shown.]
>
> Gordon Hamilton
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:01:14 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Veterans Day 2009
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <986244B80C2D4D97999C7FC478D8A8FC at lewisdl0ls5whv>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I thank you for your kind and thoughtful remarks on this Veterans Day 
> 2009.
>
> May we also remember those in service to our country today and keep them 
> in our thoughts and prayers. Now our armed forces are engaged in a very 
> difficult conflict. Not only are our service members in harm's way, but 
> the national attitude and resolve make it even more difficult for them and 
> their families.
>
> Bud Jeffries
>  ----- Original Message ----- 
>  From: NW Mailing List
>  To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
>  Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:33 AM
>  Subject: Veterans Day 2009
>
>
>  Veterans Day 2009
>  Mr. Hamilton, Mr. Jeffries, Mr. Newton, and all of you Gentlemen who 
> sacrificed, and served, or you who are now serving our Nation.
>  I thank you for  all that you have done.
>
>  Gene Arnold
>  Gloucester, Va.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  ________________________________________
>  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>  To change your subscription go to
>  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:35:11 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Steam questions
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <20091111163511.ITT4G.438558.root at hrndva-web23-z01>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> To expand on what Gordon Hamilton wrote about throttles -
>
> M's and W's and other engines whose cabs were mounted astraddle of the 
> firebox had their throttles on top of the boiler for convenient handling 
> by the engineer.  These throttles operated a rod that went directly above 
> the top of the boiler into the back of the steam dome (through a packing 
> gland)where the actual throttle was located.  The throttles described by 
> Mr. Hamilton were on the E-2s, K-2 and K-2as M-2s and subclasses and 
> earlier Mallets up through the Y-4s.
>
> EdKing
> ---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>> Nathan,
>>
>> In addition to what others have furnished on the two types of throttle
>> levers on N&W steam locos, a few more comments  may help.
>>
>> Older N&W steam locos used the "horizontal" throttle levers, which were
>> pivoted to the left (toward the fireman) of the vertical centerline of 
>> the
>> boiler and which were pinned to a rod (or stem) that typically passed
>> through a stuffing box on the boiler backhead on the vertical centerline 
>> of
>> the boiler and above the crown sheet.  This rod reached through the 
>> boiler
>> to a bell crank under the steam dome, and the other arm of the bell crank
>> raised or lowered the throttle valve when the rod from the throttle lever 
>> in
>> the cab moved forward or backwards, respectively.  I can think of two
>> problems with this throttle arrangement.  One, the sliding action of the 
>> rod
>> in the stuffing box on the backhead probably caused more wear on the 
>> packing
>> than the rotary action of the shaft in the stuffing box leading to a
>> dome-mounted throttle operated by the outside throttle linkage (and a
>> vertical throttle).  Two, with the throttle lever in the "off" position,
>> expansion and contraction of the boiler might be different than the
>> expansion and contraction of the rod through the boiler raising the 
>> throttle
>> valve just enough to leak steam to the cylinders, which could cause the
>> locomotive to "walk away."  This happened at times.  The more modern
>> arrangement of the outside linkage associated with vertical throttle 
>> levers
>> largely avoided this problem by incorporating a rocker lever mid way 
>> between
>> the throttle lever and the throttle valve to provide compensation for the
>> expansion and contraction of the boiler.
>>
>> Gordon Hamilton
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:33 AM
>> Subject: Steam questions
>>
>>
>> > Alright gang I'm back with more questions, Both are for the most part
>> > quick and hopefully simple. First what orientation did N&W prefer for
>> > the throttles of their steam locomotives? Horizontal or Vertical? I
>> > think the J and A both had Vertical oriented but I am not sure if that
>> > was N&W preference of just what they used on those locomotives for some
>> > reason.
>> >
>> > Second Question is a little harder but I feel it will be easy for
>> > someone to answer. In listening to Link's recording of  Y6 working
>> > Waynesboro, at time I hear a distinct "thump thump thump" that is
>> > rythimic then it quits then it does it again. It does not sound like a
>> > Cross Compound to me so I am buffaloed as to what it is, Feedwater pump
>> > perhaps? I head the same sound in Hooters on Blues ridge when there is 
>> > a
>> > Y doing Switching at Blue Ridge. It happens while the locomotive is
>> > still moving but the throttle seems to be closed and the engine 
>> > coasting.
>> >
>> > Thanks ahead of time,
>> > Nathan
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > Nathan Simmons
>> > trainman51 at gmail.com
>> > http://www.t-51.org
>> > KI4MSK
>> >
>> > ________________________________________
>> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> > To change your subscription go to
>> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.53/2486 - Release Date: 
>> 11/07/09
>> 07:38:00
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:12:15 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Steam questions
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <73E1DE21-E0E4-4790-9317-7A2B5D0F3902 at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
>
> I have a question!   In regards to the Y5's with a Bradford Front End
> throttle, why was it there and not in the steam dome? Did it provide a
> shorter path to the front engine when in Simple?
>
> MArk Lindsey
> Stuck in the 1930's
>
> On Nov 11, 2009, at 10:39 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>
> Nathan,
>
> In addition to what others have furnished on the two types of throttle
> levers on N&W steam locos, a few more comments  may help.
>
> Older N&W steam locos used the "horizontal" throttle levers, which
> were pivoted to the left (toward the fireman) of the vertical
> centerline of the boiler and which were pinned to a rod (or stem) that
> typically passed through a stuffing box on the boiler backhead on the
> vertical centerline of the boiler and above the crown sheet.  This rod
> reached through the boiler to a bell crank under the steam dome, and
> the other arm of the bell crank raised or lowered the throttle valve
> when the rod from the throttle lever in the cab moved forward or
> backwards, respectively.  I can think of two problems with this
> throttle arrangement.  One, the sliding action of the rod in the
> stuffing box on the backhead probably caused more wear on the packing
> than the rotary action of the shaft in the stuffing box leading to a
> dome-mounted throttle operated by the outside throttle linkage (and a
> vertical throttle).  Two, with the throttle lever in the "off"
> position, expansion and contraction of the boiler might be different
> than the expansion and contraction of the rod through the boiler
> raising the throttle valve just enough to leak steam to the cylinders,
> which could cause the locomotive to "walk away."  This happened at
> times.  The more modern arrangement of the outside linkage associated
> with vertical throttle levers largely avoided this problem by
> incorporating a rocker lever mid way between the throttle lever and
> the throttle valve to provide compensation for the expansion and
> contraction of the boiler.
>
> Gordon Hamilton
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" 
> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> >
> To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:33 AM
> Subject: Steam questions
>
>
>> Alright gang I'm back with more questions, Both are for the most part
>> quick and hopefully simple. First what orientation did N&W prefer for
>> the throttles of their steam locomotives? Horizontal or Vertical? I
>> think the J and A both had Vertical oriented but I am not sure if that
>> was N&W preference of just what they used on those locomotives for
>> some
>> reason.
>>
>> Second Question is a little harder but I feel it will be easy for
>> someone to answer. In listening to Link's recording of  Y6 working
>> Waynesboro, at time I hear a distinct "thump thump thump" that is
>> rythimic then it quits then it does it again. It does not sound like a
>> Cross Compound to me so I am buffaloed as to what it is, Feedwater
>> pump
>> perhaps? I head the same sound in Hooters on Blues ridge when there
>> is a
>> Y doing Switching at Blue Ridge. It happens while the locomotive is
>> still moving but the throttle seems to be closed and the engine
>> coasting.
>>
>> Thanks ahead of time,
>> Nathan
>>
>> -- 
>> Nathan Simmons
>> trainman51 at gmail.com
>> http://www.t-51.org
>> KI4MSK
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.53/2486 - Release Date:
> 11/07/09 07:38:00
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:31:41 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Steam questions
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <03FBACBFFA964ABD9D89CC8A23A41015 at DellVostro>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> Ed,
>
> Thanks for pointing out the other arrangement for the horizontal 
> throttles.
> After I hit the send button I thought of the W's and M's with the firebox
> that extended so far back into the cab as to separate the engineer and
> fireman, and I realized that those throttles had to be ahead of the boiler
> backhead.
>
> Gordon Hamilton
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Steam questions
>
>
>> To expand on what Gordon Hamilton wrote about throttles -
>>
>> M's and W's and other engines whose cabs were mounted astraddle of the
>> firebox had their throttles on top of the boiler for convenient handling
>> by the engineer.  These throttles operated a rod that went directly above
>> the top of the boiler into the back of the steam dome (through a packing
>> gland)where the actual throttle was located.  The throttles described by
>> Mr. Hamilton were on the E-2s, K-2 and K-2as M-2s and subclasses and
>> earlier Mallets up through the Y-4s.
>>
>> EdKing
>> ---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>>> Nathan,
>>>
>>> In addition to what others have furnished on the two types of throttle
>>> levers on N&W steam locos, a few more comments  may help.
>>>
>>> Older N&W steam locos used the "horizontal" throttle levers, which were
>>> pivoted to the left (toward the fireman) of the vertical centerline of
>>> the
>>> boiler and which were pinned to a rod (or stem) that typically passed
>>> through a stuffing box on the boiler backhead on the vertical centerline
>>> of
>>> the boiler and above the crown sheet.  This rod reached through the
>>> boiler
>>> to a bell crank under the steam dome, and the other arm of the bell 
>>> crank
>>> raised or lowered the throttle valve when the rod from the throttle 
>>> lever
>>> in
>>> the cab moved forward or backwards, respectively.  I can think of two
>>> problems with this throttle arrangement.  One, the sliding action of the
>>> rod
>>> in the stuffing box on the backhead probably caused more wear on the
>>> packing
>>> than the rotary action of the shaft in the stuffing box leading to a
>>> dome-mounted throttle operated by the outside throttle linkage (and a
>>> vertical throttle).  Two, with the throttle lever in the "off" position,
>>> expansion and contraction of the boiler might be different than the
>>> expansion and contraction of the rod through the boiler raising the
>>> throttle
>>> valve just enough to leak steam to the cylinders, which could cause the
>>> locomotive to "walk away."  This happened at times.  The more modern
>>> arrangement of the outside linkage associated with vertical throttle
>>> levers
>>> largely avoided this problem by incorporating a rocker lever mid way
>>> between
>>> the throttle lever and the throttle valve to provide compensation for 
>>> the
>>> expansion and contraction of the boiler.
>>>
>>> Gordon Hamilton
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>>> To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:33 AM
>>> Subject: Steam questions
>>>
>>>
>>> > Alright gang I'm back with more questions, Both are for the most part
>>> > quick and hopefully simple. First what orientation did N&W prefer for
>>> > the throttles of their steam locomotives? Horizontal or Vertical? I
>>> > think the J and A both had Vertical oriented but I am not sure if that
>>> > was N&W preference of just what they used on those locomotives for 
>>> > some
>>> > reason.
>>> >
>>> > Second Question is a little harder but I feel it will be easy for
>>> > someone to answer. In listening to Link's recording of  Y6 working
>>> > Waynesboro, at time I hear a distinct "thump thump thump" that is
>>> > rythimic then it quits then it does it again. It does not sound like a
>>> > Cross Compound to me so I am buffaloed as to what it is, Feedwater 
>>> > pump
>>> > perhaps? I head the same sound in Hooters on Blues ridge when there is
>>> > a
>>> > Y doing Switching at Blue Ridge. It happens while the locomotive is
>>> > still moving but the throttle seems to be closed and the engine
>>> > coasting.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks ahead of time,
>>> > Nathan
>>> >
>>> > -- 
>>> > Nathan Simmons
>>> > trainman51 at gmail.com
>>> > http://www.t-51.org
>>> > KI4MSK
>>> >
>>> > ________________________________________
>>> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>>> > To change your subscription go to
>>> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>>> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>>> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.53/2486 - Release Date:
>>> 11/07/09
>>> 07:38:00
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>>> To change your subscription go to
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.704 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2496 - Release Date: 11/11/09
> 02:40:00
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
> End of NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 49, Issue 25
> ***********************************************


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2496 - Release Date: 11/11/09 
07:40:00


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 15:52:18 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 15:52:18 -0500
Subject: Steam questions
In-Reply-To: <03FBACBFFA964ABD9D89CC8A23A41015@DellVostro>
Message-ID: <20091111205218.CP8KA.264639.root@hrndva-web14-z01>

One of the eastern railway museums has an 0-6-0 - I think it's at Monticello, Ill. - which has a boiler protruding into the cab but not all the way; its throttle is on top of the boiler like an M's but it has a rear facing linkage to a lever on the boiler backhead that goes to a rod extending through a packing gland like those on the K-2s, etc.  Really a Rube Goldberg arrangement.

EdKing
---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 
> Ed,
> 
> Thanks for pointing out the other arrangement for the horizontal throttles. 
> After I hit the send button I thought of the W's and M's with the firebox 
> that extended so far back into the cab as to separate the engineer and 
> fireman, and I realized that those throttles had to be ahead of the boiler 
> backhead.
> 
> Gordon Hamilton
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:35 AM
> Subject: Re: Steam questions
> 
> 
> > To expand on what Gordon Hamilton wrote about throttles -
> >
> > M's and W's and other engines whose cabs were mounted astraddle of the 
> > firebox had their throttles on top of the boiler for convenient handling 
> > by the engineer.  These throttles operated a rod that went directly above 
> > the top of the boiler into the back of the steam dome (through a packing 
> > gland)where the actual throttle was located.  The throttles described by 
> > Mr. Hamilton were on the E-2s, K-2 and K-2as M-2s and subclasses and 
> > earlier Mallets up through the Y-4s.
> >
> > EdKing
> > ---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> >> Nathan,
> >>
> >> In addition to what others have furnished on the two types of throttle
> >> levers on N&W steam locos, a few more comments  may help.
> >>
> >> Older N&W steam locos used the "horizontal" throttle levers, which were
> >> pivoted to the left (toward the fireman) of the vertical centerline of 
> >> the
> >> boiler and which were pinned to a rod (or stem) that typically passed
> >> through a stuffing box on the boiler backhead on the vertical centerline 
> >> of
> >> the boiler and above the crown sheet.  This rod reached through the 
> >> boiler
> >> to a bell crank under the steam dome, and the other arm of the bell crank
> >> raised or lowered the throttle valve when the rod from the throttle lever 
> >> in
> >> the cab moved forward or backwards, respectively.  I can think of two
> >> problems with this throttle arrangement.  One, the sliding action of the 
> >> rod
> >> in the stuffing box on the backhead probably caused more wear on the 
> >> packing
> >> than the rotary action of the shaft in the stuffing box leading to a
> >> dome-mounted throttle operated by the outside throttle linkage (and a
> >> vertical throttle).  Two, with the throttle lever in the "off" position,
> >> expansion and contraction of the boiler might be different than the
> >> expansion and contraction of the rod through the boiler raising the 
> >> throttle
> >> valve just enough to leak steam to the cylinders, which could cause the
> >> locomotive to "walk away."  This happened at times.  The more modern
> >> arrangement of the outside linkage associated with vertical throttle 
> >> levers
> >> largely avoided this problem by incorporating a rocker lever mid way 
> >> between
> >> the throttle lever and the throttle valve to provide compensation for the
> >> expansion and contraction of the boiler.
> >>
> >> Gordon Hamilton
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> >> To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:33 AM
> >> Subject: Steam questions
> >>
> >>
> >> > Alright gang I'm back with more questions, Both are for the most part
> >> > quick and hopefully simple. First what orientation did N&W prefer for
> >> > the throttles of their steam locomotives? Horizontal or Vertical? I
> >> > think the J and A both had Vertical oriented but I am not sure if that
> >> > was N&W preference of just what they used on those locomotives for some
> >> > reason.
> >> >
> >> > Second Question is a little harder but I feel it will be easy for
> >> > someone to answer. In listening to Link's recording of  Y6 working
> >> > Waynesboro, at time I hear a distinct "thump thump thump" that is
> >> > rythimic then it quits then it does it again. It does not sound like a
> >> > Cross Compound to me so I am buffaloed as to what it is, Feedwater pump
> >> > perhaps? I head the same sound in Hooters on Blues ridge when there is 
> >> > a
> >> > Y doing Switching at Blue Ridge. It happens while the locomotive is
> >> > still moving but the throttle seems to be closed and the engine 
> >> > coasting.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks ahead of time,
> >> > Nathan
> >> >
> >> > -- 
> >> > Nathan Simmons
> >> > trainman51 at gmail.com
> >> > http://www.t-51.org
> >> > KI4MSK
> >> >
> >> > ________________________________________
> >> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >> > To change your subscription go to
> >> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.53/2486 - Release Date: 
> >> 11/07/09
> >> 07:38:00
> >>
> >> ________________________________________
> >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >> To change your subscription go to
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> > To change your subscription go to
> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.704 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2496 - Release Date: 11/11/09 
> 02:40:00
> 
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 17:19:02 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 14:19:02 -0800
Subject: Steam questions
In-Reply-To: <73E1DE21-E0E4-4790-9317-7A2B5D0F3902@earthlink.net>
References: <4AF65846.2010707@gmail.com>
	<BFB0FEC7C7764372B382A0C9D413F27E@DellVostro>
	<73E1DE21-E0E4-4790-9317-7A2B5D0F3902@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <68A5005C-A393-40AF-9B4A-5BFADC123673@sbcglobal.net>

I understand that front-end throttles were used to keep steam in the  
superheater tubes when the throttle was closed to cut down on  
superheater tube burning.  The throttle valves were between the  
superheater output and the cylinders.  Dome throttles were usually  
upstream of the superheaters, so the superheater tubes were dry when  
the throttles were closed.  I think there were some other space and  
access advantages as well.

I think that there was some discussion of this a while back on this  
site.

pete groom
On Nov 11, 2009, at 10:12 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

> I have a question!   In regards to the Y5's with a Bradford Front  
> End throttle, why was it there and not in the steam dome? Did it  
> provide a shorter path to the front engine when in Simple?
>
> MArk Lindsey
> Stuck in the 1930's
>
> On Nov 11, 2009, at 10:39 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
>
> Nathan,
>
> In addition to what others have furnished on the two types of  
> throttle levers on N&W steam locos, a few more comments  may help.
>
> Older N&W steam locos used the "horizontal" throttle levers, which  
> were pivoted to the left (toward the fireman) of the vertical  
> centerline of the boiler and which were pinned to a rod (or stem)  
> that typically passed through a stuffing box on the boiler backhead  
> on the vertical centerline of the boiler and above the crown sheet.   
> This rod reached through the boiler to a bell crank under the steam  
> dome, and the other arm of the bell crank raised or lowered the  
> throttle valve when the rod from the throttle lever in the cab moved  
> forward or backwards, respectively.  I can think of two problems  
> with this throttle arrangement.  One, the sliding action of the rod  
> in the stuffing box on the backhead probably caused more wear on the  
> packing than the rotary action of the shaft in the stuffing box  
> leading to a dome-mounted throttle operated by the outside throttle  
> linkage (and a vertical throttle).  Two, with the throttle lever in  
> the "off" position, expansion and contraction of the boiler might be  
> different than the expansion and contraction of the rod through the  
> boiler raising the throttle valve just enough to leak steam to the  
> cylinders, which could cause the locomotive to "walk away."  This  
> happened at times.  The more modern arrangement of the outside  
> linkage associated with vertical throttle levers largely avoided  
> this problem by incorporating a rocker lever mid way between the  
> throttle lever and the throttle valve to provide compensation for  
> the expansion and contraction of the boiler.
>
> Gordon Hamilton
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org 
> >
> To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:33 AM
> Subject: Steam questions
>
>
>> Alright gang I'm back with more questions, Both are for the most part
>> quick and hopefully simple. First what orientation did N&W prefer for
>> the throttles of their steam locomotives? Horizontal or Vertical? I
>> think the J and A both had Vertical oriented but I am not sure if  
>> that
>> was N&W preference of just what they used on those locomotives for  
>> some
>> reason.
>>
>> Second Question is a little harder but I feel it will be easy for
>> someone to answer. In listening to Link's recording of  Y6 working
>> Waynesboro, at time I hear a distinct "thump thump thump" that is
>> rythimic then it quits then it does it again. It does not sound  
>> like a
>> Cross Compound to me so I am buffaloed as to what it is, Feedwater  
>> pump
>> perhaps? I head the same sound in Hooters on Blues ridge when there  
>> is a
>> Y doing Switching at Blue Ridge. It happens while the locomotive is
>> still moving but the throttle seems to be closed and the engine  
>> coasting.
>>
>> Thanks ahead of time,
>> Nathan
>>
>> -- 
>> Nathan Simmons
>> trainman51 at gmail.com
>> http://www.t-51.org
>> KI4MSK
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.53/2486 - Release Date:  
> 11/07/09 07:38:00
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 19:38:51 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:38:51 GMT
Subject: Veterans Day 2009
Message-ID: <20091111.193851.15228.0@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>


A very hardy "Amen" to Gene's statement.
Dave Moorehead
Milford, Ohio
---------- Original Message ----------
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Subject: Veterans Day 2009
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 10:33:45 -0500


Veterans Day 2009Mr. Hamilton, Mr. Jeffries, Mr. Newton, and all of you Gentlemen who sacrificed, and served, or you who are now serving our Nation. I thank you for  all that you have done. Gene ArnoldGloucester, Va. 
____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=ZoP98UzDxYVkQxMpFWr6EwAAJz0EfYvq2cf24k6W9nXC_g23AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA=
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 19:54:57 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:54:57 GMT
Subject: Re; Signal Light  Replacement Bulbs
Message-ID: <20091111.195457.15228.1@webmail05.vgs.untd.com>

Thanks to all who responded to my inquiry about replacement bulbs for a N&W dwarf Union Signal.  I, too, checked the GE site for the bulb type and found nothing.  Thanks for those of you who doubled checked for me. 
>From the responses some of my fears have been verified-i.e. high cost and scarcity of the bulbs in question. 
At present the voltage on the system is running at 12 volts so using an automoble type bulb should not be a problem.  A major concern that I have with using the automobile type bulb would be with the filament of the bulb being at the proper focal length and height from the signal lens.  I'll give them a try as the cost is relatively low.
Thanks again,
Dave Moorehead
Milford, Ohio
____________________________________________________________
Online College Degrees
Advance your education and jumpstart your career. Research schools!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/c?cp=xQsELJeXo16ATWMMzqPyYgAAJz0EfYvq2cf24k6W9nXC_g23AAQAAAAFAAAAAFSrhj4AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABSJAAAAAA=
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Nov 12 00:31:49 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 00:31:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Veterans Day 2009
Message-ID: <31224829.1258003909709.JavaMail.root@wamui-junio.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Wed Nov 11 22:46:14 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 22:46:14 -0500
Subject: Veterans Day 2009
In-Reply-To: <002f01ca6316$512526a0$e430fea9@lmnewton>
Message-ID: <20091112034614.GOT87.232210.root@hrndva-web24-z01>

AMEN.

Remember these folks in your daily prayers.

EdKing
---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote: 
> Thanks to Gene Arnold for his remembrance of Veterans Day.
> 
> I agree with Bud Jeffries that the current members of our armed forces and 
> their families should continue to be in our thoughts and prayers.  They are 
> serving under extremely difficcult condtions.
> 
> Louis Newton
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org>
> To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 3:39 PM
> Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 49, Issue 25
> 
> 
> > Send NW-Mailing-List mailing list submissions to
> > nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/nw-mailing-list
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> > nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> > nw-mailing-list-owner at nwhs.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of NW-Mailing-List digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. N&W in 1910--Clerks strike (NW Mailing List)
> >   2. Re: Veterans Day 2009 (NW Mailing List)
> >   3. Re: Steam questions (NW Mailing List)
> >   4. Re: Steam questions (NW Mailing List)
> >   5. Re: Steam questions (NW Mailing List)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:47:12 -0500
> > From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Subject: N&W in 1910--Clerks strike
> > To: "3N&W Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Message-ID: <B15732DFEE2E4963B371A57C0E0A4FD1 at DellVostro>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Bluefield Daily Telegraph
> > May 18, 1910
> >
> > RAILWAY CLERKS STRIKE
> > OUT ALL OVER SYSTEM
> > ------
> > Demand Recognition of Union Which Norfolk and Western Refuses to 
> > Concede--Only Five Out in Bluefield
> >    The Brotherhood of Railway Clerks struck yesterday afternoon at 2:30 
> > and as a result men are out in this city, at Vivian, Elkhorn, Keystone, 
> > Williamson, St. Paul, Coeburn, Tazewell, East Radford, Roanoke and other 
> > points which it was impossible to hear from last night.
> >    To counteract the effect of the strike it leaked out from an official 
> > source last night that the Norfolk and Western will replace the men who 
> > have quit and will also discharge a number of others who have been 
> > prominent in the strike work.
> >    The demands of the strikers are that the Norfolk and Western adopt a 
> > schedule presented by the clerk's union in which the clerks ask that the 
> > men receive equal wages for equal work and also ask for promotion 
> > according to merit, the men having the opportunity to apply for vacancies 
> > according to their seniority, the same as is done by other orders.  The 
> > men also want to have the privilege of allowing the union to settle their 
> > disputes and bring any grievances which may arise during the term of the 
> > contract.  The union claims to represent ninety per cent of the men on the 
> > railroad payroll as clerical help outside of the general offices and shops 
> > at Roanoke.  A man who is prominent in the union said last night that 
> > these are 535 men in the order.
> > [The remainder of the article on the microfilm was too blurred to 
> > transcribe.  The number 535 was also blurred, but the best interpretation 
> > is shown.]
> > ------
> >
> > IN CITY AND COALFIELD
> > ------
> > First General Strike
> >    Not a single railroad man could be found here last night who remembered 
> > a time when the Norfolk and Western ever had a strike on its hands before 
> > in which any order or union called the men out all over the road.  About 
> > five years ago there was a strike in which the Southern Express Company 
> > men and agents took part.  So, the Norfolk and Western, as far as could be 
> > determined last night, was neutral in that matter.
> > [Some words were blurred on the microfilm.  The best interpretations are 
> > shown.]
> >
> > Gordon Hamilton
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: 
> > <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20091111/959385d7/attachment.htm>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:01:14 -0500
> > From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Subject: Re: Veterans Day 2009
> > To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Message-ID: <986244B80C2D4D97999C7FC478D8A8FC at lewisdl0ls5whv>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I thank you for your kind and thoughtful remarks on this Veterans Day 
> > 2009.
> >
> > May we also remember those in service to our country today and keep them 
> > in our thoughts and prayers. Now our armed forces are engaged in a very 
> > difficult conflict. Not only are our service members in harm's way, but 
> > the national attitude and resolve make it even more difficult for them and 
> > their families.
> >
> > Bud Jeffries
> >  ----- Original Message ----- 
> >  From: NW Mailing List
> >  To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> >  Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:33 AM
> >  Subject: Veterans Day 2009
> >
> >
> >  Veterans Day 2009
> >  Mr. Hamilton, Mr. Jeffries, Mr. Newton, and all of you Gentlemen who 
> > sacrificed, and served, or you who are now serving our Nation.
> >  I thank you for  all that you have done.
> >
> >  Gene Arnold
> >  Gloucester, Va.
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >  ________________________________________
> >  NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >  To change your subscription go to
> >  http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >  Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >  http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: 
> > <http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/attachments/20091111/2a583ff5/attachment.html>
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:35:11 -0500
> > From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Subject: Re: Steam questions
> > To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Message-ID: <20091111163511.ITT4G.438558.root at hrndva-web23-z01>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> >
> > To expand on what Gordon Hamilton wrote about throttles -
> >
> > M's and W's and other engines whose cabs were mounted astraddle of the 
> > firebox had their throttles on top of the boiler for convenient handling 
> > by the engineer.  These throttles operated a rod that went directly above 
> > the top of the boiler into the back of the steam dome (through a packing 
> > gland)where the actual throttle was located.  The throttles described by 
> > Mr. Hamilton were on the E-2s, K-2 and K-2as M-2s and subclasses and 
> > earlier Mallets up through the Y-4s.
> >
> > EdKing
> > ---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> >> Nathan,
> >>
> >> In addition to what others have furnished on the two types of throttle
> >> levers on N&W steam locos, a few more comments  may help.
> >>
> >> Older N&W steam locos used the "horizontal" throttle levers, which were
> >> pivoted to the left (toward the fireman) of the vertical centerline of 
> >> the
> >> boiler and which were pinned to a rod (or stem) that typically passed
> >> through a stuffing box on the boiler backhead on the vertical centerline 
> >> of
> >> the boiler and above the crown sheet.  This rod reached through the 
> >> boiler
> >> to a bell crank under the steam dome, and the other arm of the bell crank
> >> raised or lowered the throttle valve when the rod from the throttle lever 
> >> in
> >> the cab moved forward or backwards, respectively.  I can think of two
> >> problems with this throttle arrangement.  One, the sliding action of the 
> >> rod
> >> in the stuffing box on the backhead probably caused more wear on the 
> >> packing
> >> than the rotary action of the shaft in the stuffing box leading to a
> >> dome-mounted throttle operated by the outside throttle linkage (and a
> >> vertical throttle).  Two, with the throttle lever in the "off" position,
> >> expansion and contraction of the boiler might be different than the
> >> expansion and contraction of the rod through the boiler raising the 
> >> throttle
> >> valve just enough to leak steam to the cylinders, which could cause the
> >> locomotive to "walk away."  This happened at times.  The more modern
> >> arrangement of the outside linkage associated with vertical throttle 
> >> levers
> >> largely avoided this problem by incorporating a rocker lever mid way 
> >> between
> >> the throttle lever and the throttle valve to provide compensation for the
> >> expansion and contraction of the boiler.
> >>
> >> Gordon Hamilton
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> >> To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:33 AM
> >> Subject: Steam questions
> >>
> >>
> >> > Alright gang I'm back with more questions, Both are for the most part
> >> > quick and hopefully simple. First what orientation did N&W prefer for
> >> > the throttles of their steam locomotives? Horizontal or Vertical? I
> >> > think the J and A both had Vertical oriented but I am not sure if that
> >> > was N&W preference of just what they used on those locomotives for some
> >> > reason.
> >> >
> >> > Second Question is a little harder but I feel it will be easy for
> >> > someone to answer. In listening to Link's recording of  Y6 working
> >> > Waynesboro, at time I hear a distinct "thump thump thump" that is
> >> > rythimic then it quits then it does it again. It does not sound like a
> >> > Cross Compound to me so I am buffaloed as to what it is, Feedwater pump
> >> > perhaps? I head the same sound in Hooters on Blues ridge when there is 
> >> > a
> >> > Y doing Switching at Blue Ridge. It happens while the locomotive is
> >> > still moving but the throttle seems to be closed and the engine 
> >> > coasting.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks ahead of time,
> >> > Nathan
> >> >
> >> > -- 
> >> > Nathan Simmons
> >> > trainman51 at gmail.com
> >> > http://www.t-51.org
> >> > KI4MSK
> >> >
> >> > ________________________________________
> >> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >> > To change your subscription go to
> >> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> >>
> >>
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.53/2486 - Release Date: 
> >> 11/07/09
> >> 07:38:00
> >>
> >> ________________________________________
> >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >> To change your subscription go to
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:12:15 -0500
> > From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Subject: Re: Steam questions
> > To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Message-ID: <73E1DE21-E0E4-4790-9317-7A2B5D0F3902 at earthlink.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
> >
> > I have a question!   In regards to the Y5's with a Bradford Front End
> > throttle, why was it there and not in the steam dome? Did it provide a
> > shorter path to the front engine when in Simple?
> >
> > MArk Lindsey
> > Stuck in the 1930's
> >
> > On Nov 11, 2009, at 10:39 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:
> >
> > Nathan,
> >
> > In addition to what others have furnished on the two types of throttle
> > levers on N&W steam locos, a few more comments  may help.
> >
> > Older N&W steam locos used the "horizontal" throttle levers, which
> > were pivoted to the left (toward the fireman) of the vertical
> > centerline of the boiler and which were pinned to a rod (or stem) that
> > typically passed through a stuffing box on the boiler backhead on the
> > vertical centerline of the boiler and above the crown sheet.  This rod
> > reached through the boiler to a bell crank under the steam dome, and
> > the other arm of the bell crank raised or lowered the throttle valve
> > when the rod from the throttle lever in the cab moved forward or
> > backwards, respectively.  I can think of two problems with this
> > throttle arrangement.  One, the sliding action of the rod in the
> > stuffing box on the backhead probably caused more wear on the packing
> > than the rotary action of the shaft in the stuffing box leading to a
> > dome-mounted throttle operated by the outside throttle linkage (and a
> > vertical throttle).  Two, with the throttle lever in the "off"
> > position, expansion and contraction of the boiler might be different
> > than the expansion and contraction of the rod through the boiler
> > raising the throttle valve just enough to leak steam to the cylinders,
> > which could cause the locomotive to "walk away."  This happened at
> > times.  The more modern arrangement of the outside linkage associated
> > with vertical throttle levers largely avoided this problem by
> > incorporating a rocker lever mid way between the throttle lever and
> > the throttle valve to provide compensation for the expansion and
> > contraction of the boiler.
> >
> > Gordon Hamilton
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "NW Mailing List" 
> > <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> > >
> > To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:33 AM
> > Subject: Steam questions
> >
> >
> >> Alright gang I'm back with more questions, Both are for the most part
> >> quick and hopefully simple. First what orientation did N&W prefer for
> >> the throttles of their steam locomotives? Horizontal or Vertical? I
> >> think the J and A both had Vertical oriented but I am not sure if that
> >> was N&W preference of just what they used on those locomotives for
> >> some
> >> reason.
> >>
> >> Second Question is a little harder but I feel it will be easy for
> >> someone to answer. In listening to Link's recording of  Y6 working
> >> Waynesboro, at time I hear a distinct "thump thump thump" that is
> >> rythimic then it quits then it does it again. It does not sound like a
> >> Cross Compound to me so I am buffaloed as to what it is, Feedwater
> >> pump
> >> perhaps? I head the same sound in Hooters on Blues ridge when there
> >> is a
> >> Y doing Switching at Blue Ridge. It happens while the locomotive is
> >> still moving but the throttle seems to be closed and the engine
> >> coasting.
> >>
> >> Thanks ahead of time,
> >> Nathan
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Nathan Simmons
> >> trainman51 at gmail.com
> >> http://www.t-51.org
> >> KI4MSK
> >>
> >> ________________________________________
> >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >> To change your subscription go to
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> >
> >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.53/2486 - Release Date:
> > 11/07/09 07:38:00
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> > To change your subscription go to
> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:31:41 -0500
> > From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Subject: Re: Steam questions
> > To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Message-ID: <03FBACBFFA964ABD9D89CC8A23A41015 at DellVostro>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > reply-type=original
> >
> > Ed,
> >
> > Thanks for pointing out the other arrangement for the horizontal 
> > throttles.
> > After I hit the send button I thought of the W's and M's with the firebox
> > that extended so far back into the cab as to separate the engineer and
> > fireman, and I realized that those throttles had to be ahead of the boiler
> > backhead.
> >
> > Gordon Hamilton
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 11:35 AM
> > Subject: Re: Steam questions
> >
> >
> >> To expand on what Gordon Hamilton wrote about throttles -
> >>
> >> M's and W's and other engines whose cabs were mounted astraddle of the
> >> firebox had their throttles on top of the boiler for convenient handling
> >> by the engineer.  These throttles operated a rod that went directly above
> >> the top of the boiler into the back of the steam dome (through a packing
> >> gland)where the actual throttle was located.  The throttles described by
> >> Mr. Hamilton were on the E-2s, K-2 and K-2as M-2s and subclasses and
> >> earlier Mallets up through the Y-4s.
> >>
> >> EdKing
> >> ---- NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> >>> Nathan,
> >>>
> >>> In addition to what others have furnished on the two types of throttle
> >>> levers on N&W steam locos, a few more comments  may help.
> >>>
> >>> Older N&W steam locos used the "horizontal" throttle levers, which were
> >>> pivoted to the left (toward the fireman) of the vertical centerline of
> >>> the
> >>> boiler and which were pinned to a rod (or stem) that typically passed
> >>> through a stuffing box on the boiler backhead on the vertical centerline
> >>> of
> >>> the boiler and above the crown sheet.  This rod reached through the
> >>> boiler
> >>> to a bell crank under the steam dome, and the other arm of the bell 
> >>> crank
> >>> raised or lowered the throttle valve when the rod from the throttle 
> >>> lever
> >>> in
> >>> the cab moved forward or backwards, respectively.  I can think of two
> >>> problems with this throttle arrangement.  One, the sliding action of the
> >>> rod
> >>> in the stuffing box on the backhead probably caused more wear on the
> >>> packing
> >>> than the rotary action of the shaft in the stuffing box leading to a
> >>> dome-mounted throttle operated by the outside throttle linkage (and a
> >>> vertical throttle).  Two, with the throttle lever in the "off" position,
> >>> expansion and contraction of the boiler might be different than the
> >>> expansion and contraction of the rod through the boiler raising the
> >>> throttle
> >>> valve just enough to leak steam to the cylinders, which could cause the
> >>> locomotive to "walk away."  This happened at times.  The more modern
> >>> arrangement of the outside linkage associated with vertical throttle
> >>> levers
> >>> largely avoided this problem by incorporating a rocker lever mid way
> >>> between
> >>> the throttle lever and the throttle valve to provide compensation for 
> >>> the
> >>> expansion and contraction of the boiler.
> >>>
> >>> Gordon Hamilton
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
> >>> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> >>> To: "NWHS" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, November 08, 2009 12:33 AM
> >>> Subject: Steam questions
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > Alright gang I'm back with more questions, Both are for the most part
> >>> > quick and hopefully simple. First what orientation did N&W prefer for
> >>> > the throttles of their steam locomotives? Horizontal or Vertical? I
> >>> > think the J and A both had Vertical oriented but I am not sure if that
> >>> > was N&W preference of just what they used on those locomotives for 
> >>> > some
> >>> > reason.
> >>> >
> >>> > Second Question is a little harder but I feel it will be easy for
> >>> > someone to answer. In listening to Link's recording of  Y6 working
> >>> > Waynesboro, at time I hear a distinct "thump thump thump" that is
> >>> > rythimic then it quits then it does it again. It does not sound like a
> >>> > Cross Compound to me so I am buffaloed as to what it is, Feedwater 
> >>> > pump
> >>> > perhaps? I head the same sound in Hooters on Blues ridge when there is
> >>> > a
> >>> > Y doing Switching at Blue Ridge. It happens while the locomotive is
> >>> > still moving but the throttle seems to be closed and the engine
> >>> > coasting.
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks ahead of time,
> >>> > Nathan
> >>> >
> >>> > -- 
> >>> > Nathan Simmons
> >>> > trainman51 at gmail.com
> >>> > http://www.t-51.org
> >>> > KI4MSK
> >>> >
> >>> > ________________________________________
> >>> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >>> > To change your subscription go to
> >>> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >>> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >>> > http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.53/2486 - Release Date:
> >>> 11/07/09
> >>> 07:38:00
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________________
> >>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >>> To change your subscription go to
> >>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> >>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> >>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> >>
> >> ________________________________________
> >> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> >> To change your subscription go to
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> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 9.0.704 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2496 - Release Date: 11/11/09
> > 02:40:00
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> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> > To change your subscription go to
> > http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> > Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
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> > End of NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 49, Issue 25
> > ***********************************************
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2496 - Release Date: 11/11/09 
> 07:40:00
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Nov 12 13:50:50 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 13:50:50 -0500
Subject: "Taking Twenty" with the Virginian Brethren
Message-ID: <4AFC590A.6050708@vt.edu>

Last night I had the pleasure of "Takin' Twenty" with six of the Brethren
and Friends of the Virginian Railway, on a rainy Veteran's Day evening. All
of the Brethren present served in our military. Raymond East is the most
decorated; he served in combat in Korea. We had a pool and Rufus Wingfield
won the free meal representing our Veterans.

Several of Gordon Hamilton's "Bluefield Daily Telegraph" pages from 1910
were passed around. They concerned the opening of Princeton Shop on May 17;
the wreck of May 7, 1910 near Oakvale where the train turned over on her
side; a man and three women injured while trying to outrun an N&W passenger
train while joy riding on a signal corps gasoline powered company track
automobile; but the one they like the best was a report on the possibility
of The New Your Central taking over the VGN. The article stated that if H.
H. Rogers were still alive, it would be who might the VGN take over, 
instead!

As for the "Straight A" and "Slanted Sixes" from last week, this is not a
discussion about grades or automobile engines. It is from discussion about
the direction of exhaust from steam locomotives. The "Straight As" were N&W
Class A locomotives whose exhaust went straight up and the "Slanted Sixes"
were the N&W Y Class locomotives whose exhaust slanted toward the tender.

A lot of the discussion last night was about our excursion trains last
weekend to Bluefield and Shenandoah. Last Thursday the train was
"deadheaded" from Spencer, NC to Roanoke, and at Hurt,VA below Altavista,
and the new connection between the SOU and VGN, it traveled on the old VGN
to Roanoke. Landon and I met the train at Moneta and I took a video and I
showed that video last night to the Brethren.

The Roanoke Chapter NRHS Fall Excursion Trains were a success. We had a
full train of over 800 to Bluefield and had over 600 on the Shenandoah
train on Sunday. Car hosts Landon Gregory and I met many VGN related people
on the trains. One gentlemen told of his father working in the VGN
Roundhouse in Roanoke, and as a 10-year-old going with him to a VGN picnic
at the resort at Yellow Sulphur. Joyce B. Mullins, granddaughter of A. J.
Mullins, told me the story of how the town of Mullens was named after her
grandfather. In her soft Appalachian style voice, she said "When the sign
painter forgot to dot the "I" in "Mullins", the town was named what it is
today". On Sunday, on the way to Shenandoah, we had several West Virginians
tell about the making of the movie "Coal Miner's Daughter", the story of
Loretta Lynn. Cassie Blanton from Norton, VA worked as a baby sitter for
the children from Norton who worked as extras (Loretta's children and
siblings in the movie). One lady, Lillian P. Burks of the Stunning Styles
Beauty and Barbershop on Athens Road in Princeton, told Dewey Houch, former
VGN surveyor who was my assistant Host on Car C09, that he needed a
haircut. Dewey said "if we only had a pair of scissors, I would let you cut
it". This was my signal, and I proceeded immediately to one of the EMTs on
board, borrowed scissors, returned and she cut Dewey's hair while traveling
about 40MPH toward Shenandoah. I have placed a photo on this site under
"Skip's Photos" of Dewey getting a trim. I also showed the Brethren many
picturesque photos taken of the two trains by various friends.

On Monday this week I was invited to "deadhead" our excursion Amtrak train
back to Lynchburg. I chose to ride on the New Orleans bound dome car
"Southern Hospitality". The train went as "068" and I was able to get a
copy from the Amtrak Conductor of the train orders. These contained 8 pages
of slow orders and safety reminders, printed from a computer. I showed
these to VGN hogger Raymond East who commented "these are unlike the thin
yellow ones handed up years ago on a bended wooden hoop by VGN operators
like Landon Gregory"!

On Sunday morning's Shenandoah run, I met an older gentleman as he boarded
Coach 09 and started him toward his seat. I asked "if he preferred an aisle
or window seat". He responded "I would rather have a chair seat".

Time to pull the pin on this one!

Departing Now from V248,

Skip Salmon






=============


From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Nov 12 14:37:00 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:37:00 -0500
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
In-Reply-To: <167831.68303.qm@web23901.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <167831.68303.qm@web23901.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CB2C7D76D78947469E6C9E062D93B0C7@071927350f>

Guys:  I think we are getting too far down the track on pushers on Kingston
Hill.  They may have been used in earlier days around the turn of the
century (we need to check the employee timetables for certainty). Do we have
facts?  I do have the file on the changes in Chillicothe (somewhere) due to
dynamometer car tests with Y-3's.  There was a sag in the RoW in Chilli that
took the Y-3's 'off the power curve' that was measured by tests.
Improvements in the line and grade allowed a better run at the hill for
w/b's and allowed the Y-3's to run at their best performance under load.
The N&W made these tests while the C&O was still running on the Scioto
Division 1917-1927.  This change in grade and RoW was done in 1924 if I
remember correctly.  This file does not discuss the use of pushers on these
Y-3 pulled trains at all.  It does discuss the increase in tonnage on the
trains.  

 

Gary Rolih

Cincinnati

 

 

  _____  

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 2:02 PM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

 

Interesting information / stories. I've been aware of the Kingston hill and
the fact that it was an operational challenge - but I was unaware that
unaware that it was so severe. 

 

It surprises me that the tonnage was such that the trains regularly slowed
to 5mph. I would think that the chance of stalling would have been pretty
high.    

Matt Goodman

Columbus, OH

 


On Nov 9, 2009, at 10:04 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
wrote:

Thanks.  I was growing up in the 1930s and evidently wasn't aware of the
helpers.  I remember walking behind the 5 mph coal drags with my brothers
just north of Chillicothe.

 

Bob McKell

 

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 9:06 AM
To:  <mailto:nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

 

   Unfortunately not.  I do know my Grandfather used to ride the helpers up
the hill to Kingston.  He then used a portable telegraph unit to check on
train movements to ensure it was safe to back down the hill to Chillicothe.
The sidings used were the ones at Delano.   It's just off Route 159 north of
the Hospital.  As far as time frame, as a guess I'd say in the 1910s to
1930s.  They were using Z1s and the early Y series then and they just didn't
have enough power to pull that hill alone.  

   When I was about 10 my dad worked at Kingston as an Railway Express
Agent.  A friend and I would walk south down the hill and wait for a coal
drag.  When we thought the engineer couldn't see us we would hop a coal car
and ride to the top of the hill.  Even with the 1200s on the head end the
train would only be going about 5 miles an hour when we hopped off south of
the Depot so dad couldn't see what we had done.  

 

Jack Lemon


-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 9:25 am
Subject: RE: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

To the gentleman who responded to Nathan Simmons about the Scioto Division:
Do you know the dates the N&W used helpers on the Kingston hill west of
Chillicothe?  I don't remember them.

 

Bob McKell

Chillicothe, Ohio

 

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
[mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
<mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org?> ] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:55 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

 

   Nathan, I grew up in the Scioto Division and my father and grandfather
were Operator/Levermen at the various interlocking towers throughout the
division.  Since I lived in Ohio at the end of the westbound line I don't
know a lot about the division east of Portsmouth.

 

   The Scioto Division began west of Williamson and ran to Columbus, Ohio
with a branch to Cincinnati, Ohio.  There was a big classification yard at
Portsmouth.  From there it was doubletracked all the way to Columbus where
there were two yards.   Watkins Yard was at the South end of Columbus and
was where all coal drags were broken down for interchange with the C & O,
the PRR and the NYC.  There was a small exchange yard next to Watkins for
the C & O.  It was called Mozelle Yard.  It had about 6 tracks if I recall
correctly.  The other yard in Columbus was Joyce Avenue Yard.  This was the
actual end of the N & W until the merger with NKP in the mid 60s.  This was
the freight and passenger yard.  The line from Portsmouth to Columbus was
called the Valley.

 

   There was a 14 mile grade between Chillicothe, Ohio and Kingston, Ohio
that required helpers.  They were kept at a siding just north of Chillicothe
and ran to Kingston and backed down the hill to Chillicothe.

  

   Somtime in the late 50s or early 60s they removed a section of the double
track main between Waverly, Ohio and Chillicothe, Ohio.  That move never
made sense to me.

 

  The interchanges were at Waverly, Ohio at Glen Jean Tower with the DT & I.
In Chillicothe, Ohio at Renick Tower with the MCRR (Marietta, Cincinnati
RailRoad) which was later the CH & D ( Cincinnati, Hamilton and Dayton) and
finally I believe it was the B & O.  At Circleville, Ohio the interchange
was with the PRR and was controlled by Circleville Tower.  At Valley
Crossing, Ohio it was with the HVRR (Hocking Valley Railroad) which later
became part of the C  & O and was controlled by Valley Crossing Tower.
Bannon Tower at the north end of Watkins yard controlled an interchange with
the PRR.   

 

   Just at the north end of Portsmouth, Ohio was a branch line to
Cincinnati, Ohio.  It was called the Peavine.  It was single track with lots
of curves and at least one grade, between Lawshe and Winchester, that
required helpers until the Class As showed up.  It ended at Claire Yard in
Cincinnati.  

  

   My Great Grandfather was a Hostler in Chillicothe, Ohio for the MCRR.  My
Grandfather and my Father worked at the yards in Portsmouth and at the
towers in Glen Jean, Renick, Circleville, Valley Crossing and Bannon.  I
used to go to work with him during the summer months.  I saw the 1200s,
2100s, 1100s, and even saw Jawn Henry once.  The passenger engines were not
the Northeren 4-8-4, 600 series.  I believe they were shrouded 2-8-4s.  Was
it a K2?.  The train that ran from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the
Cavalier and its engine was numbered in the 120s.

 

  This is all from memory and I'm 67. So if I gaffed please forgive me, but
I think I'm reasonably accurate. 


From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NWHS <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 5:59 pm
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

It seems the older I get the more I wish I could have lived in the past to
see the Y6s, As, and Js. I guess it is the History buff in me. (After all
I'm only 23). This email I m sending so that I can learn some more about the
Divisions west of Roanoke as well as to show ya'll my my photos from this
past weekend which was a trip west of Bluefield. 
 
So here goes, I know the Pulaski District came off at Walton and went down
to Bristol. I know the Main to Bluefield was double track this far, and I
know that it is Double Tracked from Narrows to Bluefield. Now my question is
was it double track between Walton and Narrows back in the 50s? 
 
As for the Pocahontas Division I know it had the Clinch Valley and
Pocahontas District, as well as many branches. But my questions are mainly
for the Pocahontas district. Exactly how far was it electrified? I have read
to Vivian and I have read Iaeger. I know electrification ended when the new
alignment came about which was 1950 right? Now for the Kicker, where exactly
did the old alignment go? This weekend I was on the Pocahontas and made it
to the west end of Elkhorn Tunnel and I think I was able to spot the Old
alignment to the North of the current one, it was higher and was across the
hollow. So where did it tie into everything on the East side of the hill? I
ask because I was in Coopers as well. 
 
Now for the Last question, Where exactly did the Scioto Division begin? What
all did it include? and what division is it part of in todays NS System? 
 
Here is the photo album from this weekend: 
*http://tinyurl.com/pokey-oct09* 
 
Oh one last question, this is for you Virginian folks. Right now the
Virginian connects to the Christiansburg district at Narrows. Now I suspect
that the PD district that comes off the Christiansburg at PD jct is also old
Virginian am I correct on my assumption? and I also assume if I am correct
that the Virginian originally went stright through, and that N&W abandoned
the section between Narrows and PD jct. after the merger. Is the correct or
am I all wrong? Please educate me. 
 
Thanks in advance, 
Nathan 
 
PS I hope I didn't ask too many "Duh" questions, and I would research it
myself. But at the moment I don't have the time. However after I get caught
up on things I plan to do some research on some stuff. One thing being the
Dry Fork Branch. 
 
-- Nathan Simmons 
trainman51 at gmail.com 
http://www.t-51.org <http://www.t-51.org/>  
KI4MSK 
 
________________________________________ 
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org 
To change your subscription go to 
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list 
Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at 
http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/ 

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To change your subscription go to
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________________________________________
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To change your subscription go to
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Nov 12 21:19:50 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:19:50 -0500
Subject: Bell stolen from chapters GP-30 N&W 522
Message-ID: <20091113022000.CFBQ1428.eastrmmtao103.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net>

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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Nov 12 21:05:54 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:05:54 -0500
Subject: Virginian in 1910-Wreck
Message-ID: <AD155BED0EFD4D6AA2B172867D714CA8@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
May 19, 1910

WRECK ON VIRGINIAN
------
Dynamite May Have to be Used to Get Cars From Tunnel

    A Virginian coal train of seventy-five cars was wrecked in the tunnel at Ingleside yesterday morning at 7:30 and as a result no trains were able to pass over the line at that point all day long.  It is expected that the wreck will be cleared up sometime before noon today.  A number of cars were piled in the western mouth of the tunnel when a car jumped the track.  About half of the train had gone through at that time and in addition to those cars which were overturned a number left the track completely tieing [sic] up traffic.  A derrick car was sent for to Victoria as it was found that the derrick on the western end of the road could not work to advantage from the western side of the tunnel.  No one was injured.  It may be necessary to resort to dynamite to get the cars out.
    Traffic will be tied up for at least thirty hours.  Two other small wrecks on the road delayed passenger trains also during the day.
------
Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Thu Nov 12 21:11:15 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 21:11:15 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Heavy engines
Message-ID: <6A6D05D347CB43BE8488C4622B748AEC@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
May 21, 1910

IN CITY AND COALFIELD
------
Engines Too Heavy for Track
    Nearly every day this week there has been a bad wreck on the Virginian and this has kept the trains tied up.  Many people claim that the heavy Mallet engines which are operated on new track are responsible as the monster engines keep the track in a continually shaky condition.  The track east of Princeton has not been down a year yet and therefore is soft.
------
Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sat Nov 14 09:34:41 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:34:41 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
Message-ID: <564084.90813.qm@web23906.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Ah, but now that I know that it did occur at some point, I can now justify a "pusher" hill on my new layout plan without building mountains right next to flat Circleville, OH!  Modelers license takes care of the rest...

Matt Goodman
Columbus
(via Circleville and Chillicothe)


On Nov 12, 2009, at 2:37 PM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Guys:  I think we are getting too far down the track on pushers on Kingston Hill.  They may have been used in earlier days around the turn of the century (we need to check the employee timetables for certainty). Do we have facts?  I do have the file on the changes in Chillicothe (somewhere) due to dynamometer car tests with Y-3?s.  There was a sag in the RoW in Chilli that took the Y-3?s ?off the power curve? that was measured by tests.  Improvements in the line and grade allowed a better run at the hill for w/b?s and allowed the Y-3?s to run at their best performance under load.  The N&W made these tests while the C&O was still running on the Scioto Division 1917-1927.  This change in grade and RoW was done in 1924 if I remember correctly.  This file does not discuss the use of pushers on these Y-3 pulled trains at all.  It does discuss the increase in tonnage on the trains. 
 
Gary Rolih
Cincinnati
 
 
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 2:02 PM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
 
Interesting information / stories. I've been aware of the Kingston hill and the fact that it was an operational challenge - but I was unaware that unaware that it was so severe. 
 
It surprises me that the tonnage was such that the trains regularly slowed to 5mph. I would think that the chance of stalling would have been pretty high.    

Matt Goodman
Columbus, OH
 

On Nov 9, 2009, at 10:04 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:

Thanks.  I was growing up in the 1930s and evidently wasn?t aware of the helpers.  I remember walking behind the 5 mph coal drags with my brothers just north of Chillicothe.
 
Bob McKell
 
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 9:06 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
 
   Unfortunately not.  I do know my Grandfather used to ride the helpers up the hill to Kingston.  He then used a portable telegraph unit to check on train movements to ensure it was safe to back down the hill to Chillicothe.  The sidings used were the ones at Delano.   It's just off Route 159 north of the Hospital.  As far as time frame, as a guess I'd say in the 1910s to 1930s.  They were using Z1s and the early Y series then and they just didn't have enough power to pull that hill alone. 
   When I was about 10 my dad worked at Kingston as an Railway Express Agent.  A friend and I would walk south down the hill and wait for a coal drag.  When we thought the engineer couldn't see us we would hop a coal car and ride to the top of the hill.  Even with the 1200s on the head end the train would only be going about 5 miles an hour when we hopped off south of the Depot so dad couldn't see what we had done. 
 
Jack Lemon


-----Original Message-----
From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 9:25 am
Subject: RE: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

To the gentleman who responded to Nathan Simmons about the Scioto Division:  Do you know the dates the N&W used helpers on the Kingston hill west of Chillicothe?  I don?t remember them.
 
Bob McKell
Chillicothe, Ohio
 
From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:55 AM
To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
 
   Nathan, I grew up in the Scioto Division and my father and grandfather were Operator/Levermen at the various interlocking towers throughout the division.  Since I lived in Ohio at the end of the westbound line I don't know a lot about the division east of Portsmouth.
 
   The Scioto Division began west of Williamson and ran to Columbus, Ohio with a branch to Cincinnati, Ohio.  There was a big classification yard at Portsmouth.  >From there it was doubletracked all the way to Columbus where there were two yards.   Watkins Yard was at the South end of Columbus and was where all coal drags were broken down for interchange with the C & O, the PRR and the NYC.  There was a small exchange yard next to Watkins for the C & O.  It was called Mozelle Yard.  It had about 6 tracks if I recall correctly.  The other yard in Columbus was Joyce Avenue Yard.  This was the actual end of the N & W until the merger with NKP in the mid 60s.  This was the freight and passenger yard.  The line from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Valley.
 
   There was a 14 mile grade between Chillicothe, Ohio and Kingston, Ohio that required helpers.  They were kept at a siding just north of Chillicothe and ran to Kingston and backed down the hill to Chillicothe.
 
   Somtime in the late 50s or early 60s they removed a section of the double track main between Waverly, Ohio and Chillicothe, Ohio.  That move never made sense to me.
 
  The interchanges were at Waverly, Ohio at Glen Jean Tower with the DT & I.  In Chillicothe, Ohio at Renick Tower with the MCRR (Marietta, Cincinnati RailRoad) which was later the CH & D ( Cincinnati, Hamilton and Dayton) and finally I believe it was the B & O.  At Circleville, Ohio the interchange was with the PRR and was controlled by Circleville Tower.  At Valley Crossing, Ohio it was with the HVRR (Hocking Valley Railroad) which later became part of the C  & O and was controlled by Valley Crossing Tower.  Bannon Tower at the north end of Watkins yard controlled an interchange with the PRR.  
 
   Just at the north end of Portsmouth, Ohio was a branch line to Cincinnati, Ohio.  It was called the Peavine.  It was single track with lots of curves and at least one grade, between Lawshe and Winchester, that required helpers until the Class As showed up.  It ended at Claire Yard in Cincinnati. 
 
   My Great Grandfather was a Hostler in Chillicothe, Ohio for the MCRR.  My Grandfather and my Father worked at the yards in Portsmouth and at the towers in Glen Jean, Renick, Circleville, Valley Crossing and Bannon.  I used to go to work with him during the summer months.  I saw the 1200s, 2100s, 1100s, and even saw Jawn Henry once.  The passenger engines were not the Northeren 4-8-4, 600 series.  I believe they were shrouded 2-8-4s.  Was it a K2?.  The train that ran from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Cavalier and its engine was numbered in the 120s.
 
  This is all from memory and I'm 67. So if I gaffed please forgive me, but I think I'm reasonably accurate. 


From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: NWHS <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 5:59 pm
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
It seems the older I get the more I wish I could have lived in the past to see the Y6s, As, and Js. I guess it is the History buff in me. (After all I'm only 23). This email I m sending so that I can learn some more about the Divisions west of Roanoke as well as to show ya'll my my photos from this past weekend which was a trip west of Bluefield. 
 
So here goes, I know the Pulaski District came off at Walton and went down to Bristol. I know the Main to Bluefield was double track this far, and I know that it is Double Tracked from Narrows to Bluefield. Now my question is was it double track between Walton and Narrows back in the 50s? 
 
As for the Pocahontas Division I know it had the Clinch Valley and Pocahontas District, as well as many branches. But my questions are mainly for the Pocahontas district. Exactly how far was it electrified? I have read to Vivian and I have read Iaeger. I know electrification ended when the new alignment came about which was 1950 right? Now for the Kicker, where exactly did the old alignment go? This weekend I was on the Pocahontas and made it to the west end of Elkhorn Tunnel and I think I was able to spot the Old alignment to the North of the current one, it was higher and was across the hollow. So where did it tie into everything on the East side of the hill? I ask because I was in Coopers as well. 
 
Now for the Last question, Where exactly did the Scioto Division begin? What all did it include? and what division is it part of in todays NS System? 
 
Here is the photo album from this weekend: 
*http://tinyurl.com/pokey-oct09* 
 
Oh one last question, this is for you Virginian folks. Right now the Virginian connects to the Christiansburg district at Narrows. Now I suspect that the PD district that comes off the Christiansburg at PD jct is also old Virginian am I correct on my assumption? and I also assume if I am correct that the Virginian originally went stright through, and that N&W abandoned the section between Narrows and PD jct. after the merger. Is the correct or am I all wrong? Please educate me. 
 
Thanks in advance, 
Nathan 
 
PS I hope I didn't ask too many "Duh" questions, and I would research it myself. But at the moment I don't have the time. However after I get caught up on things I plan to do some research on some stuff. One thing being the Dry Fork Branch. 
 
-- Nathan Simmons 
trainman51 at gmail.com 
http://www.t-51.org 
KI4MSK 
 
________________________________________ 
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sat Nov 14 11:30:04 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 11:30:04 -0500
Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
In-Reply-To: <CB2C7D76D78947469E6C9E062D93B0C7@071927350f>
References: <167831.68303.qm@web23901.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<CB2C7D76D78947469E6C9E062D93B0C7@071927350f>
Message-ID: <3516D9F6-A415-406F-8982-99FED7D67E8D@earthlink.net>

OK, so what was the best speed and tonnage for Y3's?  From what I know  
of them they did best at speeds in the 15 to 25 MPH range, but tonnage  
has more to do with grades, curvature and factor of adhesion.

Mark Lindsey
Stalled in the 1930's



On Nov 12, 2009, at 2:37 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

Guys:  I think we are getting too far down the track on pushers on  
Kingston Hill.  They may have been used in earlier days around the  
turn of the century (we need to check the employee timetables for  
certainty). Do we have facts?  I do have the file on the changes in  
Chillicothe (somewhere) due to dynamometer car tests with Y-3?s.   
There was a sag in the RoW in Chilli that took the Y-3?s ?off the  
power curve? that was measured by tests.  Improvements in the line and  
grade allowed a better run at the hill for w/b?s and allowed the Y-3?s  
to run at their best performance under load.  The N&W made these tests  
while the C&O was still running on the Scioto Division 1917-1927.   
This change in grade and RoW was done in 1924 if I remember  
correctly.  This file does not discuss the use of pushers on these Y-3  
pulled trains at all.  It does discuss the increase in tonnage on the  
trains.

Gary Rolih
Cincinnati


From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org 
] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 2:02 PM
To: NW Mailing List
Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s

Interesting information / stories. I've been aware of the Kingston  
hill and the fact that it was an operational challenge - but I was  
unaware that unaware that it was so severe.

It surprises me that the tonnage was such that the trains regularly  
slowed to 5mph. I would think that the chance of stalling would have  
been pretty high.

Matt Goodman
Columbus, OH


On Nov 9, 2009, at 10:04 AM, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing- 
list at nwhs.org> wrote:

> Thanks.  I was growing up in the 1930s and evidently wasn?t aware of  
> the helpers.  I remember walking behind the 5 mph coal drags with my  
> brothers just north of Chillicothe.
>
> Bob McKell
>
> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org 
> ] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
> Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 9:06 AM
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
>
>    Unfortunately not.  I do know my Grandfather used to ride the  
> helpers up the hill to Kingston.  He then used a portable telegraph  
> unit to check on train movements to ensure it was safe to back down  
> the hill to Chillicothe.  The sidings used were the ones at  
> Delano.   It's just off Route 159 north of the Hospital.  As far as  
> time frame, as a guess I'd say in the 1910s to 1930s.  They were  
> using Z1s and the early Y series then and they just didn't have  
> enough power to pull that hill alone.
>    When I was about 10 my dad worked at Kingston as an Railway  
> Express Agent.  A friend and I would walk south down the hill and  
> wait for a coal drag.  When we thought the engineer couldn't see us  
> we would hop a coal car and ride to the top of the hill.  Even with  
> the 1200s on the head end the train would only be going about 5  
> miles an hour when we hopped off south of the Depot so dad couldn't  
> see what we had done.
>
> Jack Lemon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: 'NW Mailing List' <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Sun, Nov 8, 2009 9:25 am
> Subject: RE: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
>
> To the gentleman who responded to Nathan Simmons about the Scioto  
> Division:  Do you know the dates the N&W used helpers on the  
> Kingston hill west of Chillicothe?  I don?t remember them.
>
> Bob McKell
> Chillicothe, Ohio
>
> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org 
> ] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
> Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:55 AM
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Subject: Re: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
>
>    Nathan, I grew up in the Scioto Division and my father and  
> grandfather were Operator/Levermen at the various interlocking  
> towers throughout the division.  Since I lived in Ohio at the end of  
> the westbound line I don't know a lot about the division east of  
> Portsmouth.
>
>    The Scioto Division began west of Williamson and ran to Columbus,  
> Ohio with a branch to Cincinnati, Ohio.  There was a big  
> classification yard at Portsmouth.  >From there it was doubletracked  
> all the way to Columbus where there were two yards.   Watkins Yard  
> was at the South end of Columbus and was where all coal drags were  
> broken down for interchange with the C & O, the PRR and the NYC.   
> There was a small exchange yard next to Watkins for the C & O.  It  
> was called Mozelle Yard.  It had about 6 tracks if I recall  
> correctly.  The other yard in Columbus was Joyce Avenue Yard.  This  
> was the actual end of the N & W until the merger with NKP in the mid  
> 60s.  This was the freight and passenger yard.  The line from  
> Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Valley.
>
>    There was a 14 mile grade between Chillicothe, Ohio and Kingston,  
> Ohio that required helpers.  They were kept at a siding just north  
> of Chillicothe and ran to Kingston and backed down the hill  
> toChillicothe.
>
>    Somtime in the late 50s or early 60s they removed a section of  
> the double track main between Waverly, Ohio and Chillicothe, Ohio.   
> That move never made sense to me.
>
>   The interchanges were at Waverly, Ohio at Glen Jean Tower with the  
> DT & I.  In Chillicothe, Ohio at Renick Tower with the MCRR  
> (Marietta, Cincinnati RailRoad) which was later the CH & D  
> (Cincinnati, Hamilton and Dayton) and finally I believe it was the B  
> & O.  At Circleville, Ohio the interchange was with the PRR and was  
> controlled by Circleville Tower.  At Valley Crossing, Ohio it was  
> with the HVRR (Hocking Valley Railroad) which later became part of  
> the C  & O and was controlled by Valley Crossing Tower.  Bannon  
> Tower at the north end of Watkins yard controlled an interchange  
> with the PRR.
>
>    Just at the north end of Portsmouth, Ohio was a branch line to  
> Cincinnati, Ohio.  It was called the Peavine.  It was single track  
> with lots of curves and at least one grade, between Lawshe  
> andWinchester, that required helpers until the Class As showed up.   
> It ended at Claire Yard in Cincinnati.
>
>    My Great Grandfather was a Hostler in Chillicothe, Ohio for the  
> MCRR.  My Grandfather and my Father worked at the yards in  
> Portsmouth and at the towers in Glen Jean, Renick, Circleville,  
> Valley Crossing and Bannon.  I used to go to work with him during  
> the summer months.  I saw the 1200s, 2100s, 1100s, and even saw Jawn  
> Henry once.  The passenger engines were not the Northeren 4-8-4, 600  
> series.  I believe they were shrouded 2-8-4s.  Was it a K2?.  The  
> train that ran from Portsmouth to Columbus was called the Cavalier  
> and its engine was numbered in the 120s.
>
>   This is all from memory and I'm 67. So if I gaffed please forgive  
> me, but I think I'm reasonably accurate.
>
>
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NWHS <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Thu, Nov 5, 2009 5:59 pm
> Subject: Radford, Pocahontas & Scioto Divisions 1950s
> It seems the older I get the more I wish I could have lived in the  
> past to see the Y6s, As, and Js. I guess it is the History buff in  
> me. (After all I'm only 23). This email I m sending so that I can  
> learn some more about the Divisions west of Roanoke as well as to  
> show ya'll my my photos from this past weekend which was a trip west  
> of Bluefield.
>
> So here goes, I know the Pulaski District came off at Walton and  
> went down to Bristol. I know the Main to Bluefield was double track  
> this far, and I know that it is Double Tracked from Narrows to  
> Bluefield. Now my question is was it double track between Walton and  
> Narrows back in the 50s?
>
> As for the Pocahontas Division I know it had the Clinch Valley and  
> Pocahontas District, as well as many branches. But my questions are  
> mainly for the Pocahontas district. Exactly how far was it  
> electrified? I have read to Vivian and I have read Iaeger. I know  
> electrification ended when the new alignment came about which was  
> 1950 right? Now for the Kicker, where exactly did the old alignment  
> go? This weekend I was on the Pocahontas and made it to the west end  
> of Elkhorn Tunnel and I think I was able to spot the Old alignment  
> to the North of the current one, it was higher and was across the  
> hollow. So where did it tie into everything on the East side of the  
> hill? I ask because I was in Coopers as well.
>
> Now for the Last question, Where exactly did the Scioto Division  
> begin? What all did it include? and what division is it part of in  
> todays NS System?
>
> Here is the photo album from this weekend:
> *http://tinyurl.com/pokey-oct09*
>
> Oh one last question, this is for you Virginian folks. Right now the  
> Virginian connects to the Christiansburg district at Narrows. Now I  
> suspect that the PD district that comes off the Christiansburg at PD  
> jct is also old Virginian am I correct on my assumption? and I also  
> assume if I am correct that the Virginian originally went stright  
> through, and that N&W abandoned the section between Narrows and PD  
> jct. after the merger. Is the correct or am I all wrong? Please  
> educate me.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Nathan
>
> PS I hope I didn't ask too many "Duh" questions, and I would  
> research it myself. But at the moment I don't have the time. However  
> after I get caught up on things I plan to do some research on some  
> stuff. One thing being the Dry Fork Branch.
>
> -- Nathan Simmons 
> trainman51 at gmail.com
> http://www.t-51.org
> KI4MSK
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

________________________________________
NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
To change your subscription go to
http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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Mark Lindsey
y3a at earthlink.net



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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sat Nov 14 20:42:36 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 20:42:36 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Strike
Message-ID: <6CD620EA6C9D42AD829D6ED84934BDD2@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
May 21, 1910

LOST SENIORITY RANK
------
Clerks Who Went Back to Work Had to File Applications for Jobs

    The clerks who went back to work yesterday after the strike had been called off were obliged to file applications, and although they were allowed to go to work their rank of seniority is lost.  This does not apply to the men who went back before the strike was called off.  It is understood that the members of the committee will not get their jobs back and several men who are now at work will be removed.  The Brotherhood of Railway Clerks had been organized only about a year and during that time one division local had been established.  This was on the Scioto division and the balance of the road was managed under a system management, the claim being that it was cheaper to start in this way as the expense of local divisions would be eliminated.
------
Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Nov 15 08:01:03 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 08:01:03 -0500
Subject: Abingdon Caboose
Message-ID: <20091115131203.XVVL11342.eastrmmtao105.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net>

Charles Seaver sent me this photo of the caboose in Abingdon after 
receiving its lettering.

The "trust/ownership" decal [right upper corners] will be put on 
Monday. The final marker light was hooked up Saturday.

Ron Davis
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sat Nov 14 21:00:24 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 21:00:24 -0500
Subject: Virginian in 1910--Fatality
Message-ID: <3B4737985EDA4B209062713F9862D66B@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
May 21, 1910

FIREMAN EATON KILLED
------
Extra Freight Train on Virginian Crashed Into Slide
    Extra freight No. 437 on the Virginian crashed into a slide at Shelby yesterday, derailing a large engine and eight cars besides killing the fireman, Roy Eaton.  The freight was an eastbound coal train, carrying a long train of cars.  Only a few details can be secured.  It was expected that the track would be cleared, repaired and traffic resumed by night.  Some of the railroad men claim that the heavy Mallet engines are responsible for the wrecks.  Their immense weight added to the immense weight of the long trains wears on the newly made track to such an extent that it is not physically able to stand the traffic.
------
[Shelby at MP 279.1, just west of the summit of the grade near the N&W overhead crossing at Merrimack and near the west end of Allegheny Tunnel, was the location of a passing siding.]

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Nov 15 22:00:50 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:00:50 -0500
Subject: Fw: Virginian in 1910--Fatality
Message-ID: <9B13567F26CA4424998FDFAE6182EA70@DellVostro>

I see that I misspelled "Merrimac" in my comment on the newspaper article in the previous message.

Sorry,

Gordon Hamilton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: NW Mailing List 
To: 4VGN Ry Yahoo Group ; 3N&W Mailing List 
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 9:00 PM
Subject: Virginian in 1910--Fatality


Bluefield Daily Telegraph
May 21, 1910

FIREMAN EATON KILLED
------
Extra Freight Train on Virginian Crashed Into Slide
    Extra freight No. 437 on the Virginian crashed into a slide at Shelby yesterday, derailing a large engine and eight cars besides killing the fireman, Roy Eaton.  The freight was an eastbound coal train, carrying a long train of cars.  Only a few details can be secured.  It was expected that the track would be cleared, repaired and traffic resumed by night.  Some of the railroad men claim that the heavy Mallet engines are responsible for the wrecks.  Their immense weight added to the immense weight of the long trains wears on the newly made track to such an extent that it is not physically able to stand the traffic.
------
[Shelby at MP 279.1, just west of the summit of the grade near the N&W overhead crossing at Merrimack and near the west end of Allegheny Tunnel, was the location of a passing siding.]

Gordon Hamilton


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Nov 15 22:25:09 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 22:25:09 -0500
Subject: Virginian in 1910--Fatality
In-Reply-To: <3B4737985EDA4B209062713F9862D66B@DellVostro>
References: <3B4737985EDA4B209062713F9862D66B@DellVostro>
Message-ID: <807CB08911C65441BCECE14320B31A2F05DBF83048@rivendell.cc.w2k.vt.edu>

Does anyone know when the Shelby passing track was removed? My recollection is that it was around until the 1980's but I am not sure.   Thanks.

     Ray Smoot

From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 9:00 PM
To: 4VGN Ry Yahoo Group; 3N&W Mailing List
Subject: Virginian in 1910--Fatality

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
May 21, 1910

FIREMAN EATON KILLED
------
Extra Freight Train on Virginian Crashed Into Slide
    Extra freight No. 437 on the Virginian crashed into a slide at Shelby yesterday, derailing a large engine and eight cars besides killing the fireman, Roy Eaton.  The freight was an eastbound coal train, carrying a long train of cars.  Only a few details can be secured.  It was expected that the track would be cleared, repaired and traffic resumed by night.  Some of the railroad men claim that the heavy Mallet engines are responsible for the wrecks.  Their immense weight added to the immense weight of the long trains wears on the newly made track to such an extent that it is not physically able to stand the traffic.
------
[Shelby at MP 279.1, just west of the summit of the grade near the N&W overhead crossing at Merrimack and near the west end of Allegheny Tunnel, was the location of a passing siding.]

Gordon Hamilton
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From nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org  Sun Nov 15 20:21:44 2009
From: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org (NW Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:21:44 -0500
Subject: N&W in 1910--Explosion
Message-ID: <B407FDEE2FC64D5FADB8C56C530730E6@DellVostro>

Bluefield Daily Telegraph
May 24, 1910

ENGINE BLOWS UP, KILLING FIREMAN CARVER
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Brakeman Smith Seriously Scalded in Disaster Near Oakvale Early This Morning 
    Engine No. 484 blew up this morning shortly after 2 o'clock, killing Fireman H. H. Carver and seriously scalding Brakeman Smith, whose initials could not be learned.  Engineer McGhee, who was driving the engine was not injured.
    The crown sheet of the engine blew out while the train was coming west about a mile east of Oakvale.  No details could be learned here, as the wreck occurred on the Radford division, the headquarters for which are Roanoke.
    Dr. St. Clair and a number of men were sent to the scene of the accident at 3:15 on a special train.  The dead man will be brought to this city and the burns of the injured brakeman will be tended to.
    It is not known what caused the accident, as the engine must have taken water at Blake, a tank nearby.
    The engineer and fireman, as well as the brakeman, are not known here and the only person who could give any information on the subject was the secretary of the railroad Y. M. C. A., who was not sure of the brakeman's initials.
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[It is difficult to understand how the engineer escaped injury in a boiler explosion.  Also, Blake is west of Oakvale so a westbound train likely would not have taken water at Blake before the explosion.  An article in the newspaper the next day gave the location of the explosion as east of Ada, which is west of Blake, so the westbound train could have taken water at Blake before the explosion.]

Gordon Hamilton
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