Steam question regarding the Shenandoah Division

[NW Mailing List]

Steam question regarding the Shenandoah Division



I would like to add a few comments regarding this question that has been 
much discussed during the past several days.

I agree with Bud Jeffries' comments that the A's and J's were not the ideal 
locomotives for the Shenandoah Division.  In passenger service, the K-2's 
were all that were needed to handle passenger trains that rarely exceeded 7 
seven cars in length.  That's not to say that a J might not occasionally 
have been operated in a detour movement.  And two J's did quite capably 
handle General Eisenhower's 18-car campaign train on the W-S District in 
1952.  (Please see RAILS REMEMBERED, Volume 3, pp. 666-668.)  Incidentally, 
according to the division superintendent's instructions regarding that 
movment, a Y-6 -- not a J -- followed the train north from W-S.

In regular freight service with tonnage trains, the principal heavy grades 
encountered by A's were the 10-mile Kingston Hill on the Columbus District 
and the Blue Ridge grade on the Norfolk Division.  The Y-6's were better 
suited for the long, heavy grades on the Shenandoah Division, where they 
could operate more efficiently at relatively low speeds than the A's could 
have done.  It's true that there were places on the Shenandoah Division 
where relatively high speed operation was possible; e. g., north of Front 
Royal in both directions, northbound from Lofton to Waynesboro, and 
southbound from Troutville to Roanoke.  In such territory the Y-6's could 
DRIFT at high speeds, probably up to 60 MPH, which is why Gordon Hamilton 
found so many broken parts on them.  But it was hard to WORK a Y-6 with 
tonnage much above 45 MPH.  As far as the Mechancial Department was 
concerned a 45-MPH speed limit would have been desirable.

A similar situation existed on the Cincinnait District, where Y-5's could 
DRIFT at high speed in much of the territory east of Peebles.

Louis Newton
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <nw-mailing-list-request at nwhs.org>
To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 3:24 PM
Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 32, Issue 19



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> Today's Topics:

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>   1. Re: Steam question regarding the Shenandoah Division

>      (NW Mailing List)

>   2. RE: Steam Question on the Shenandoah Division (NW Mailing List)

>   3. The A in Chambersburg (NW Mailing List)

>   4. Re: Steam question regarding the Shenandoah Division

>      (NW Mailing List)

>   5. RE: Agents? (NW Mailing List)

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Message: 1

> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 12:49:21 -0400

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: Re: Steam question regarding the Shenandoah Division

> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Message-ID: <004f01c8e051$67a55380$1801a8c0 at DESKTOP>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>

> I have photographic proof of an A travelling all the way to Hagerstown on 

> the Shenandoah Division.  The photo was made in Chambersburg, PA, 20 miles 

> north of Hagerstown when N&W sent a Class A to the New York World's Fair 

> in 1939-40.  The A was dead in tow, with the main rods removed, being 

> pulled by a K-4 Pacific.  The engine was polished to perfection. 

> Presumably it was towed dead all the way from Roanoke.

>

> As for speed, I remember the Y class engines which passed my childhood 

> home near Shepherdstown. All I can say is they gave real meaning to the 

> term "fast freight."

> I was puzzled in later years when I read about the Y class having had a 

> top speed of 45 mph.

>

> --Rick Morrison

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> Message: 2

> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 12:57:10 -0500

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: RE: Steam Question on the Shenandoah Division

> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Message-ID: <EKEBLGDIIMBIBLOFFKIFOEBDCEAA.mycooper at comcast.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

>

> Jimmy,

>

>    I do not know. On the sheet that showed J 606 at Shenandoah there were 

> a

> few 1100 Class Ms dispatched. I assumed it was one of these. Also to 

> correct

> an spelling error, the Track Foremen I mentioned was Vance Nauman. My 

> spell

> checker changed it to "Norman".

>

>

> Mason Cooper

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>

> Message: 3

> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 14:35:56 EDT

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: The A in Chambersburg

> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

> Message-ID: <c3a.3ab03306.35a3bc0c at aol.com>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> Rick :

>

> Could you put the photo of the A being towed to NY on this site would 

> love

> to see your photo.

>

> So glad to see you & Mason Cooper enter this discussion about the 

> Shenandoah

> Line.

>

> Regards,

> Terry Marshall

> Hagerstown, MD

>

>

>

> **************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for

> fuel-efficient used cars. 

> (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)

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> Message: 4

> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 11:48:46 -0700

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: Re: Steam question regarding the Shenandoah Division

> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Message-ID: <534D1B7F-BE90-4C44-A7CF-162440E8E09F at sbcglobal.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed";

> DelSp="yes"

>

> Yes, it was north of Shenandoah, probably between there and Hamberg.

> The car speedo was probably a little fast, but . . .

>

> pete groom

> On Jul 6, 2008, at 5:51 PM, NW Mailing List wrote:

>

> Your clocking of a 2100 at 55 mph interested me because it confirms

> what I had heard.  To explain, the first job I had at the Shaffers

> Crossing roundhouse in 1956 was handling the broken steam locomotive

> parts reporting.  When a failed part was removed, either someone

> would notify me or I would discover it on my frequent circuits of the

> roundhouse.  I would inspect the part, fill out a report form to send

> to the physical lab in Roanoke Shops, and secure the part in case the

> lab wanted to inspect it.  In some cases as a result of the lab's

> inspection, the lab would notify the design office that a change in

> design was needed.  This was one way the N&W refined steam locomotive

> components for better durability.

>

> I began to notice that a disproportionate number of broken parts were

> from 2100s off the Hagerstown line, so I asked one of the older

> supervisors about it and was told that the crews ran the 2100s as

> high as 60 mph, particularly on the portion of the line north of

> Shenandoah.  So, I am glad to see your confirmation of speeds in that

> range.

>

> Gordon Hamilton

>

> . . .

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> Message: 5

> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2008 15:05:22 -0400

> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Subject: RE: Agents?

> To: "'NW Mailing List'" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> Message-ID: <20080707190522.1ADCF628D7 at warspite.cnc.net>

> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

>

> Thanks for the insights. I guess a regular agent would be set up at a

> particular location and a traveling agent as you said would call on people

> maybe even off line for business. I see that most of them were in junction

> cities or places where there interchanges with other lines.

>

>

>

> Robert Mee

>

> on Outlook 2003

>

> from Home on XP Home

>

>  _____

>

> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org

> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List

> Sent: Monday, July 07, 2008 7:32 AM

> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

> Subject: Re: Agents?

>

>

>

> Robert Mee-

>

> Maybe I shoulda looked in The Official Guide

>

> before responding to your question.  Traveling

>

> Freight Agents did not work for the Transpor-

>

> tation Department.  Believe the hopper cops

>

> were known as Traveling Agents.

>

>

>

> The Traffic Department had offices spread

>

> all over the country -- Pittsburgh, San

>

> Francisco, Durham, and many others.  The

>

> Traveling Freight Agent solicited traffic from

>

> out-of-town customers. For example, the

>

> Traveling Freight Agent at Durham would

>

> call on Westinghouse at Raleigh, Weyer-

>

> hauser at Plymouth, and usually the local

>

> station agent for the railroad.  C&O's

>

> Traveling Freight Agent paid a visit to

>

> Chocowinity and while I was copying a

>

> train order, he was flipping through the

>

> waybills to determine if there was any

>

> traffic that could be diverted to C&O.

>

>                                       Harry Bundy

>

>

>

>

>

>  _____

>

> Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars

> <http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007> .

>

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