[steam_tech] Re: TRAINS.com latest- can steam make a comeback?
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Fri May 30 15:42:14 EDT 2008
Yes, I do have a bit of catching up to do. This list has its quaint protocols, which I am not used to, like signing your posts, which is done automatically on most other groups.
My name is Bill Wendt, I live in Chicago, and I have been wondering about steam-diesel economics for about thirty years. That is when I 1) lived near the C&NW tracks and regularly saw three SD40s hauling fast piggybacks and 100 car unit trains, and 2) read about the exploits of the Class A in Steam's Finest Hour, the 112 mile non-stop runs with 14,500 ton trains. So I could not help wondering if the A were the equivalent of three SD40s.
I also read Lemassena's March 1984 article on the Niagara, the essential point being that it generated more power at 60 mph than a 6000 hp E7, and with a locomotive that did not exploit several features available at the time.
As for what holds water or not, one of my prime sources is Ed Kings Sept 2004 article, a response to which was my first posting on steam_tech at yahoogroups.com not quite two years ago.
Another prime source is Mercedes of Steam, which I just cited on steam_tech to a suggestion of a test with 3985 instead. It does report uncritically the early test of a 7500 ton train being hauled at 60 mph and without quite in so many words saying so, suggests similar tuns in regular service.
Lately I have posted several items on TRAINS.com, the line on a steam comeback under general discussion. Besides my pseudo-profundity, someone else posted the most complete description I have seen of the Porta/Wardale boiler and corroborated the 7500 ton feat. He also said a Class A with such improvements would generate over 10,000 hp. while consuming considerably less coal.
The case for steam does not rest merely on oil running out. The federal and trade deficits are far from sustainable, per Peter Peterson, Running On Empty, and other sources. This is less debatable than oil and forebodes sharply higher interest rates. This will be a substantial advantage for the lower capital costs of steam/
Under current fuel prices and interst rates, figure the railroads dieselized on fast, light trains and slow, heavy trains, on which the diesel's advantages are most apparent. Within ten years of dieselization, however, they had to run fast, heavy trains, on which it is a different story. It is well documented if little realized that diesels are very, very expensive on fast, heavy tranis. This is taken up further in my first steam_tech posting.
I also have my general economic questions, in short, whether artifically low interest rates are a subtle subsidy for the ponderous, rigid "mature" corporation in Galbraith's The New Industrial State, as opposed to his flexible, agile, adaptable "entrepreneurial" corporation.
Bill Wendt wholelephant at yahoo.com
--- On Fri, 5/30/08, NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: [steam_tech] Re: TRAINS.com latest- can steam make a comeback?
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Date: Friday, May 30, 2008, 10:58 AM
> When ya think oil is gonna run out?
>
> EdK
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: NW Mailing List
> To: NW Mailing List
> Sent: Friday, May 30, 2008 7:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [steam_tech] Re: TRAINS.com latest- can
> steam make a comeback?
>
>
> Aww come on Ed , heres one more, if oil runs out,
> they'll just pulverise coal and burn it in diesels ??
> Ron
>
> --- On Thu, 5/29/08, NW Mailing List
> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org> wrote:
>
> From: NW Mailing List
> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: [steam_tech] Re: TRAINS.com latest-
> can steam make a comeback?
> To: "NW Mailing List"
> <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Date: Thursday, May 29, 2008, 11:11 PM
>
>
> HEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> EdK
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: NW Mailing List
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 8:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [steam_tech] Re: TRAINS.com
> latest- can steam make a comeback?
>
>
> Ed,
>
> Now, you know there is no horse so dead that we
> can't kick it one more time... :-)
>
>
> Cheers,
> Kert Peterson
> Fircrest, WA
>
> "Only two things are infinite, the
> universe and human stupidity,
> and I'm not sure about the former."
> Albert Einstein
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 5/29/2008, Ed King wrote:
>
>
> Lessee, now, guys. If we keep kicking this
> dead horse long enough, maybe
> he'll get up and run for us.
>
> About every year or so, this question comes
> up, and nobody puts up any
> arguments that will hold water.
>
> Can't we leave it alone for a while?
>
> Ed King
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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