Fw: [VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts] Re: Tidewater in 1904 -- Roanoke

[NW Mailing List]

I came across some additional info on the relation between the Roanoke & Southern Railroad and the N&W Belt Line in Raymond Barnes' book, A History of Roanoke, p. 215, where he writes about the R&S,
 
      "The N. & W. at first opposed direct connection with this road at the point eventually permitted.  The N. & W. had gone to considerable expense to lay a road bed from Franklin Road to Norwich.  It wanted the R. & S. to enter Roanoke over this line.  (The belt line incidentally was completed from the West End yards to Norwich but not to Franklin Road until the coming of the Virginia Railroad [sic].)"

I suppose that the N&W believed that interchange freight from the R&S could be better handled in the West Yard rather than in the Campbell Avenue area of downtown Roanoke.  I don't know how the numbering of mile posts on the Belt Line figured in to this, however.

Gordon Hamilton

----- Original Message ----- 
From: NW Mailing List 
To: N&W Mailing 1List 
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:58 PM
Subject: Fw: [VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts] Re: Tidewater in 1904 -- Roanoke




Richard Kimball
Ron Davis

Subject to any evidence to the contrary that may surface, I believe that the original route of the Roanoke and Southern into Roanoke was directly into downtown Roanoke rather than along the belt line to West Roanoke.  One basis is the July 1893 (one year after the R&S was completed) Sanborn insurance map of Roanoke which shows in convincing detail on the index sheet a line marked "Roanoke & Southern R.R." on the alignment of the present Winston-Salem line from about Walnut Ave. to Campbell Ave.  Sheet 2 of those Sanborn maps shows the R&S line coming alongside the building at 2nd St. and Campbell Ave. labeled "Freight Depot" and, at the north end, "Pass'gr Station and Offs."  There is a station track along the east side of the building, three stub tracks east of that, and a connecting track to the N&W on the alignment of the east leg of today's Campbell Ave. wye.  Incidentally, some of us remember this R&S station as being the "Salvage Warehouse" of the late 1950's.

The 1897 Annual Report lists 1.59 miles of main track on the Roanoke belt line, and the 1904 Annual Report states, "Track was laid on the remaining 2.34 miles of roadbed of the Roanoke Belt Line thus completing a connection from the main line west of Roanoke to the Winston-Salem district south of Roanoke, a total distance of 3.93 miles."

So, the Sanborn maps indicate that the R&S went directly into downtown Roanoke in 1893, and the annual reports confirm that the full belt line was not completed until 1904, as also reported in the newspaper articles that I posted on the Mailing List.

I don't know when the west leg of the Campbell Ave. wye was constructed, but prior to that it may have been more expedient for the N&W to run Winston-Salem freight trains out of the west yard and around the belt line to avoid a reversal of direction at the Campbell Ave. connection.  The milepost may have been changed then.  Maybe some old ETTs would show if, or when, the mileposts were changed.

Gordon Hamilton

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Davis 
  To: VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts at yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 5:33 PM
  Subject: Re: [VirginianRailwayEnthusiasts] Re: Tidewater in 1904 -- Roanoke


  I found it interesting that the article referred to the Belt Line right-of-way as abandoned. 

  According to Louis Newton, the Belt Line was the original route of the Roanoke and Southern into Roanoke. He supports this fact by noting that the mileposts on the Winston-Salem line are numbered westward from downtown, through the material yard and back along the Belt Line to the current day junction near Franklin Road. Until about 10 years ago, that junction contained a Y that allowed northbound traffic from Winston-Salem to run onto the Belt Line.

  From this news article, it sounds as though the Belt Line portion was abandoned when the line was changed to its current routing along Williamson Road. It appears that the N&W was trying to protect or regain the Belt Line after hearing that the Tidewater would be coming that way. 

  I had never thought about the timeline of the R&S and the Tidewater sufficiently to fully understand their relationships with the Belt Line in this way. I think most people assume that the R&S had always followed the current route and the Belt Line was built at a later date to block the Tidewater.

  The question I have is was the Tidewater planning to use the abandoned R&S/Belt Line grade or just simply cross over it?

  According to a number of 1907 articles posted last year on the NW list, the excavation underneath 13th Street was rather time consuming for the Tidewater. I'll repost them here if anyone is interested.

  Ron Davis

  At 05:19 PM 3/1/2008, you wrote:



    Tom,
     
    Yesterday Harold Davenport referred me to Chapter XII in Lambie's book, From Mine to Market.  There Lambie states that when it became evident that the Tidewater would follow the Roanoke River through Roanoke, President Johnson of the N&W "...ordered immediate laying of track over a very desirable location around the city known as the Belt Line."  >From this, it seems as though the N&W constructed the Belt Line on the south side of the Roanoke River not so much as to block the Tidewater, which would still have to cross the N&W's Winston-Salem line, but instead to prevent the Tidewater from building its line on a "desirable" location on the south side of the Roanoke River.  Consequently, the Tidewater built on the north side of the river, which occasioned a cut underneath Roanoke's 13th Street, SW,  and excavation of the slope below Roanoke's Ferdinand Avenue, SW.
     
    Do you, or any other Mailing "Lister" have any thoughts on this?
     
    Gordon Hamilton
     

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