WASH & BRIS RPO TRAIN 41
NW Mailing List
nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
Fri Jan 4 17:22:15 EST 2008
Re Consist N&W-Sou Train 41.
According to N&W Passenger Train Consists dated May 1, 1953, the consist of
No. 41 included a Washington to Birmingham storage mail car. However,
head-end consists varied from day to day depending on the volume of traffic.
I suspect that the two head-end cars behind the express car are both
storage mail cars, but they are NOT the Greensboro-Cincinnati cars.
No. 41 picked up both a Charlotte-Cincinnati and a Greensboro-Cincinnati
storage mail from the Southern at Lynchburg (they moved from Greensboro and
Charlotte respectively in a northbound Southern main line train) and handled
them to Roanoke. From there they moved west to Cincinnati in No. 15, but
they did NOT go via Bristol.
Louis Newton
----- Original Message -----
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Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:46 PM
Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 26, Issue 11
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> Today's Topics:
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> 1. Re: Through Truss TT Bridge (Was Re: N&W in 1903 -- New Rail)
> (NW Mailing List)
> 2. RE: Through Truss TT Bridge (Was Re: N&W in 1903 -- New Rail)
> (NW Mailing List)
> 3. Re: Camp Cars (NW Mailing List)
> 4. WASH & BRIS RPO TR 41 (NW Mailing List)
> 5. RE: Camp Cars (NW Mailing List)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 11:57:15 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Through Truss TT Bridge (Was Re: N&W in 1903 -- New Rail)
> To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org
> Message-ID: <8CA1C40D3B2E0C4-2348-389E at webmail-md19.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> The description of the N&W coal hoist sounds much like what I'd been
> calling an ash hoist.
>
>
> Jeff Cornelius
> Two Blocks from the N&W Valley Line
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 9:57 pm
> Subject: Re: Through Truss TT Bridge (Was Re: N&W in 1903 -- New Rail)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have very little information on the steam loco facilities at
> Waynesboro,
> but Jeff's mention of no evidence of a coaling tower could be explained
> by
> the likelihood that there was no coaling tower. I am familiar with the
> coaling arrangement that was used in the early 1950s at Durham, which
> may
> have serviced more locomotives than Waynesboro, i.e., at Durham each
> day
> there were one to three Y6 locomotives on through freights, a Z on the
> local
> freight, an S on the yard, and a K1 on the passenger train.
>
>
> Durham had no coaling tower. The tenders were filled with coal from a
> Norfolk style hoist. This type hoist had a bucket that descended on an
> inclined track into a pit beneath two tracks, one track for hopper cars
> with
> yard coal and one track for hopper cars with road coal. The bucket
> could be
> spotted for loading under either track. After the bucket was loaded
> with
> the proper coal for the type locomotive being coaled, it would be
> hoisted up
> the inclined track and dumped into the tender.
>
>
> Durham had no ash hoist. The ashes were simply dumped on a metal sheet
> over
> top of the ties on the "spark track" to be shoveled up later.
>
>
> The 1943 N&W Annual Report states that a Norfolk type coal hoist was
> constructed at Waynesboro. So, that could account for evidence of one
> pit.
> If Waynesboro also had an ash hoist, it out classed Durham.
>
>
> Also, drawings with "proposed" in the title can be unreliable, for I
> have
> seen many that were part of a study that never came to fruition.
>
>
> Maybe more definitive info will turn up from others.
>
>
> Gordon Hamilton
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:36 PM
>
> Subject: Re: Through Truss TT Bridge (Was Re: N&W in 1903 -- New Rail)
>
>
>
>> Jeff,
>
>>
>
>> I have copies of two drawings that I obtained from the Society's
> archives;
>> the earliest is Drawing A21155, dated August 24, 1920, with a last
>> revision date of August 29, 1923. This drawing notes "proposed"
> change is
>> track to allow clearance for the ash hoist and proposed coal hoist;
> both
>> of these are shown on a track that would roughly follow the curve of
> the
>> C&O track.
>
>>
>
>> The second drawing is A29329 dated December 1, 1928 with no revision
> dates
>> noted; it shows a "proposed coal & ash hoist" that would be on a
> siding
>> that roughly parallels the N&W mainline and fit between it and one of
> the
>> turntable leads; this drawing shows the locations of, what I presume
> to
>> be, an existing "coah house" and "coal wharf." It also shows the
> "Yard
>> Office" to be at the end of the spur track that parallels the C&O
> track,
>> albeit on a lower level.
>
>>
>
>> Both drawings note the turntable length to be 115 feet.
>
>>
>
>> I've never been able to figure out exactly what was there; as this
> will be
>> the last portion of my model railroad to be completed, I hope that if
> I
>> live that long, to finally figure out what was there and represent it
> as
>> best as possible.
>
>>
>
>> On p. 33 of Warden's "Norfolk & Western: Diesel's Last Conquest,"
> there is
>> a photo of a southbound GOP special; on the left of the photo are
> steps
>> that I presume led to the turntable area. On p. 34, there is a photo
> of
>> M-2 1119, the "regular" Waynesboro switcher on what I presume is the
> ash
>> pit track, with the ash hoist in the back of the locomotive.
>
>>
>
>> I don't know if Mr. Warden took more photos of this area; I would
> suspect
>> he did given the fact that it was the "engine terminal" and would
>> naturally attract a photographer's attention.
>
>>
>
>> I'd love to learn more about this area and/or find additional
> photographs
>> that might clear up the actual track/servicing arrangement.
>
>>
>
>> Jim Brewer
>
>> Glenwood MD
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>
>> To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:35 AM
>
>> Subject: Re: Through Truss TT Bridge (Was Re: N&W in 1903 -- New
> Rail)
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>> Although the bridge from the Waynesboro is gone, the pit remains.
>>> Curiously, there seems to have been an ash hoist but no coaling
> tower.
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> Jeff Cornelius
>
>>> Two Blocks from the N&W Valley Line
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>
>>> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>
>>> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>
>>> Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 1:00 am
>
>>> Subject: Re: Through Truss TT Bridge (Was Re: N&W in 1903 -- New
> Rail)
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> "Several years ago,
>
>>> Mainline Modeler magazine ran a series of articles on Waynesboro;
>>> although the
>
>>> focus was on the C&O, and the source material and photos from the
> C&OHS,
>
>>> the articles contained a lot of info, including a photo of the N&W
>
>>> turntable."
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> Thanks
>
>>> Jim,
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> I have that series, but, just
>
>>> like those photos I was going through, haven't looked at them for a
>>> while.
>
>>> I'll go back and see if the two pictures are the same.
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> Jimmy Lisle
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>> ________________________________________
>
>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>
>>> To change your subscription go to
>
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>
>>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
>
>>>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>>> More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! -
>>> http://webmail.aim.com
>
>>> ________________________________________
>
>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>
>>> To change your subscription go to
>
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>
>>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> ________________________________________
>
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>
>> To change your subscription go to
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>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>
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>>
>
>>
>
>> --
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>
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>> 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date: 1/1/2008 12:09 PM
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>>
>
>>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:15:57 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: RE: Through Truss TT Bridge (Was Re: N&W in 1903 -- New Rail)
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID:
> <4E34C0F4DB34324DAEA8FCAF226C182C01C13DD3 at GAXGPEX34.southernco.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to steam power, and I am
> totally unfamiliar with yard coal versus road coal. What is the
> difference? Is it a function of the locomotive or of the work to be
> done? Why would a Y have different coal requirements than the Z-class
> unless switching a local required a different type of coal that the
> Y-class that would be in road service?
>
> Thanks for any information you can provide.
>
> Bill Smith
> Atlanta, GA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:57 PM
> To: NW Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Through Truss TT Bridge (Was Re: N&W in 1903 -- New Rail)
>
> I have very little information on the steam loco facilities at
> Waynesboro,
> but Jeff's mention of no evidence of a coaling tower could be explained
> by
> the likelihood that there was no coaling tower. I am familiar with the
> coaling arrangement that was used in the early 1950s at Durham, which
> may
> have serviced more locomotives than Waynesboro, i.e., at Durham each day
>
> there were one to three Y6 locomotives on through freights, a Z on the
> local
> freight, an S on the yard, and a K1 on the passenger train.
>
> Durham had no coaling tower. The tenders were filled with coal from a
> Norfolk style hoist. This type hoist had a bucket that descended on an
> inclined track into a pit beneath two tracks, one track for hopper cars
> with
> yard coal and one track for hopper cars with road coal. The bucket
> could be
> spotted for loading under either track. After the bucket was loaded
> with
> the proper coal for the type locomotive being coaled, it would be
> hoisted up
> the inclined track and dumped into the tender.
>
> Durham had no ash hoist. The ashes were simply dumped on a metal sheet
> over
> top of the ties on the "spark track" to be shoveled up later.
>
> The 1943 N&W Annual Report states that a Norfolk type coal hoist was
> constructed at Waynesboro. So, that could account for evidence of one
> pit.
> If Waynesboro also had an ash hoist, it out classed Durham.
>
> Also, drawings with "proposed" in the title can be unreliable, for I
> have
> seen many that were part of a study that never came to fruition.
>
> Maybe more definitive info will turn up from others.
>
> Gordon Hamilton
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:36 PM
> Subject: Re: Through Truss TT Bridge (Was Re: N&W in 1903 -- New Rail)
>
>
>> Jeff,
>>
>> I have copies of two drawings that I obtained from the Society's
> archives;
>> the earliest is Drawing A21155, dated August 24, 1920, with a last
>> revision date of August 29, 1923. This drawing notes "proposed"
> change is
>> track to allow clearance for the ash hoist and proposed coal hoist;
> both
>> of these are shown on a track that would roughly follow the curve of
> the
>> C&O track.
>>
>> The second drawing is A29329 dated December 1, 1928 with no revision
> dates
>> noted; it shows a "proposed coal & ash hoist" that would be on a
> siding
>> that roughly parallels the N&W mainline and fit between it and one of
> the
>> turntable leads; this drawing shows the locations of, what I presume
> to
>> be, an existing "coah house" and "coal wharf." It also shows the "Yard
>
>> Office" to be at the end of the spur track that parallels the C&O
> track,
>> albeit on a lower level.
>>
>> Both drawings note the turntable length to be 115 feet.
>>
>> I've never been able to figure out exactly what was there; as this
> will be
>> the last portion of my model railroad to be completed, I hope that if
> I
>> live that long, to finally figure out what was there and represent it
> as
>> best as possible.
>>
>> On p. 33 of Warden's "Norfolk & Western: Diesel's Last Conquest,"
> there is
>> a photo of a southbound GOP special; on the left of the photo are
> steps
>> that I presume led to the turntable area. On p. 34, there is a photo
> of
>> M-2 1119, the "regular" Waynesboro switcher on what I presume is the
> ash
>> pit track, with the ash hoist in the back of the locomotive.
>>
>> I don't know if Mr. Warden took more photos of this area; I would
> suspect
>> he did given the fact that it was the "engine terminal" and would
>> naturally attract a photographer's attention.
>>
>> I'd love to learn more about this area and/or find additional
> photographs
>> that might clear up the actual track/servicing arrangement.
>>
>> Jim Brewer
>> Glenwood MD
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> To: <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:35 AM
>> Subject: Re: Through Truss TT Bridge (Was Re: N&W in 1903 -- New Rail)
>>
>>
>>> Although the bridge from the Waynesboro is gone, the pit remains.
>>> Curiously, there seems to have been an ash hoist but no coaling
> tower.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff Cornelius
>>> Two Blocks from the N&W Valley Line
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>>> To: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
>>> Sent: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 1:00 am
>>> Subject: Re: Through Truss TT Bridge (Was Re: N&W in 1903 -- New
> Rail)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Several years ago,
>>> Mainline Modeler magazine ran a series of articles on Waynesboro;
>>> although the
>>> focus was on the C&O, and the source material and photos from the
> C&OHS,
>>> the articles contained a lot of info, including a photo of the N&W
>>> turntable."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Jim,
>>>
>>>
>>> I have that series, but, just
>>> like those photos I was going through, haven't looked at them for a
>>> while.
>>> I'll go back and see if the two pictures are the same.
>>>
>>>
>>> Jimmy Lisle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________________
>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>>> To change your subscription go to
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> ________________________________________________________________________
>>> More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! -
>>> http://webmail.aim.com
>>> ________________________________________
>>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>>> To change your subscription go to
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
>> To change your subscription go to
>> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
>> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
>> http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
>> 269.17.13/1206 - Release Date: 1/1/2008 12:09 PM
>>
>>
>
> ________________________________________
> NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org
> To change your subscription go to
> http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list
> Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:50:06 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: Re: Camp Cars
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <002901c84e39$75705e60$6601a8c0 at Jimmy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I too would like to hear what Gary has to say. From what was said on
> the broadcast it seems as though the men could enjoy a "home cooked" meal
> rather than having to eat at some fast food joint every night. And not
> having to travel hours to and from the work place has to account for
> something too.
> Why would the union be bringing the subject up if the men were not
> complaining about living conditions? There is more to this than meets the
> eye.
> Jimmy Lisle
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 11:08:56 -0800 (PST)
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: WASH & BRIS RPO TR 41
> To: N&W Historical Society <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID: <232167.98846.qm at web30101.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Southern Pelican in 1952
> Posted by: "Charles Freericks"
> charlesfreericks at verizon.net
> charles_freericks
> Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:39 pm ((PST))
>
> My dad took this picture of the Southern Pelican (I
> believe) train #41 at Bristol, VA in 1952 on a journey
> from New Jersey to Sardis MS (I think he was on the
> way home by this time).
>
> http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=217611&nseq=0
>
> Anyone able to add any information based on what is
> visible? Thanks.
>
>
> January 3, 2008
>
> Hello, Charles:
>
> Thanks for posting a wonderful photo of the Pelican at
> Bristol in 1952. I hope that you'll post other
> pictures that your dad took.
>
> The first car behind the locomotive appears to be a
> Railway Express boxcar, perhaps one of their
> mechanical reefers. There are three additional
> storage mail cars, with a 60-feet Southern Railway
> heavyweight RPO. Even though the train ran over the
> N&W between Lynchburg and Bristol, the Southern
> Railway provided the RPO equipment used on this train.
>
> This is what the usual consist was for train 41 over
> the N&W in 1954. From what is visible, it appears to
> be similar to train make-up in 1952.
>
> CONSIST OF TRAIN NO. 41 LYNCHBURG TO BRISTOL
> Effective March 15, 1954
>
> Storage Mail Car (A) (B) Greensboro to Cincinnati
> Storage Mail Car (B) Greensboro to Cincinnati
> Storage Mail Car (Sealed) (C) Washington to
> Birmingham
> Postal Car Washington to Chattanooga
> Baggage Car Washington to New Orleans
> Partition Coach Washington to New Orleans
> Coach Washington to New Orleans
> Dining Car Roanoke to Birmingham
> Sleeper (10 Sec 1 Compt 1 DRoom) Washington to
> Roanoke
> Sleeper (10 Sec 1 DR 2 Compt) Washington to
> Shreveport
> Sleeper (10 Roomette 6 DB Room) New York to New
> Orleans
> Sleeper (10 Roomette 6 DB Room) New York to Knoxville
> Sleeper (10 Roomette 6 DB Room) New York to Bristol
> Sleeper (10 Roomette 6 DB Room) (D) New York to
> Williamson
> Sleeper (12 Sec 1 DR) (E) Richmond to Bristol
>
> ALL CARS OPERATE DAILY UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED
>
> Notes: (A) Daily except Monday from Sou at Lynchburg.
> (B) From Sou Train 12 at Lynchburg.
> (C) Daily except Monday and Tuesday from Sou at
> Lynchburg.
> (D) To Train No. 15 at Roanoke.
> (E) From Train No. 15 at Roanoke.
>
> Lynchburg to Roanoke Roanoke to Bristol
>
> 11 Cars - Mon 10 Cars - Mon Tues
> 12 Cars - Tues 11 Cars other days
> 13 Cars other days
>
>
> A note about the first two storage mail cars, operated
> from Greensboro and Cincinnati. One might expect that
> they would have been taken off at Roanoke and put onto
> an N&W train from Roanoke to Cincinnati. However,
> that does not appear to be the actual routing. Since
> this was primarily a Southern Railway train, I suppose
> the storage mail cars continued to Chattanooga, the
> were attached to a CIN & CHATT train operated up the
> CNO&TP to Cincinnati. This seems to be a very
> circuitous routing. However, the Post Office
> Department's Postal Transportation Service ordinarily
> looked at what train arrangement advanced the mail.
> That is, distance was secondary to the overall transit
> time. If Greensboro to Cincinnati via Lynchburg and
> Chattanooga yielded the shortest transit time when
> compared to other routings, that was a justification
> for using it.
>
> Happy new year,
>
> Frank Scheer
> f_scheer at yahoo.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 14:15:59 -0500
> From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Subject: RE: Camp Cars
> To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>
> Message-ID:
> <1AE5A77582D956479BB3952950D0121CAC3BDA at lex98ex1.lexington.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> But, we have to remember was everything pertinent said on the NPR news
> broadcast. Or has often happened just what was wanted to be said was
> reported.
>
> George Weber
> NCTMF
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org
> [mailto:nw-mailing-list-bounces at nwhs.org] On Behalf Of NW Mailing List
> Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:50 PM
> To: NW Mailing List
> Subject: Re: Camp Cars
>
>
> I too would like to hear what Gary has to say. From what was said on
> the broadcast it seems as though the men could enjoy a "home cooked"
> meal rather than having to eat at some fast food joint every night. And
> not having to travel hours to and from the work place has to account for
> something too.
> Why would the union be bringing the subject up if the men were not
> complaining about living conditions? There is more to this than meets
> the eye.
> Jimmy Lisle
>
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