Alexandria steam circa 1958-59 ???

[NW Mailing List]

>

>

>2) He also seems to remember that the Fruit Growers

>Express had a fireless cooker and that was in the

>vicinity of where you remember. Maybe they hadn't

>charged it up in a few years and the regular service

>diesel by that time was out of order and they charged

>it up. ???


The Fruit Growers (FGE) had a 0-6-0 Coal Burner as a spare
in case the diesel 2+2 was down  They also had 2 steam derricks
(Coal) working in the late 50's.

The Southern Washington Division steam (Oil Burner) wrecker derrick 
was in service until the late 60's or early 70's This is what I think 
was seen on
the Main line.


>3) This could also have been a steam powered derrick

>as the railroads used those until very late.

>

>Just a few thoughts.

>

>I doubt we're going to get anything other than a

>mystery here but at least it's been given an airing.

>

>Bob Cohen

>

>

>Mark, all you saw was smoke rising above the trees?

>Maybe it was just an ALCO! They were called honorary

>steam locomotives because of all of the smoke they put

> > out!

> >

> > Jerry Kay, Portsmouth, VA

> >

> >

> >

> > ---- Original message ----

> > >Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 09:54:39 -0800 (PST)

> > >From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> > >Subject: NW-Mailing-List Digest, Vol 24, Issue 20

> > >To: nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org

> > >

> > >Gentlemen, Mark, Ed and all:

> > >

> > >Let me toss some observations from research I have

> > >done on the last revenue steam operations into the

> > >Washington, DC region.

> > >

> > >I'm going to do this like 10 little Indians and if

> > >someone else out there has better information, then

> > >please step up to the plate.

> > >

>We all know that Southern steam had ended much earlier

>than the others with the last actual steam runs into

>or out of the DC area ending in the early part of 1952

>by my research.





>There were steam work trains

>continuing into the 2nd half of 1952

This was on the RF&P This was the remaining 0-8-0
Pot Yard switcher, I do not remember the number.
It was sold and left the yard in late 52 or early 43, I
don"t remember who got it


>and a steam

>switcher was reactivated in the Southern yards

>during the Christmas rush.


This was an USRA  0-8-0 Number 1912 but was told by
Mr. Small the Master Mach. that it was sent south in January
of 53 to be scraped.

I remember the the B&O ran a steam frt. into POT YD in the fall of
53, but nothing after that.

                 H.B.Lyon



> > >

>The Southern mainline water tanks and coal tipples

>were all retired by mid-1953, kept in stand-by mode

>for C&O which had requested such. I can provide

>locales and dates if you want. Even Southern #1401

>did NOT come up under its own power, being messengered

>up in February 1953 with rods down.

>

>The last C&O regular service steam run into or out

>of the DC area was the early June 1953 excursion of

>Hudson #490 to Charlottesville and back to DC and

>this run is WELL-documented. The previous regular

>service steam run had been 6-12 months earlier. I

>don't have an exact date of this one either.

> > >

>The last RF&P steam run out of Pot Yard was

>December 31,1953 and the last RF&P revenue steam run

>out of Washington Union Station was during the New

>Year's Mail Rush on January 3rd,1954 with #622 the

>Carter Braxton providing the power. It is also

>well-documented that the 10 RF&P steamers, after being

>stored serviceable at Acca yard were leased to the

>power short C&O during 1955 and were returned in

>the first half of 1956. By 1958 they were all stored

>outside and rusting away with their piston rods

>disconnected since their return from the C&O 2 years

>earlier B&O had ended daily steam service from the

>north on Train #22 in early November 1953 to end steam

>into Washington on the Baltimore Division. Amazingly,

>the Pennsy ran a Thanksgiving weekend, steam powered

>extra 3 weeks later to the Bowie Race Track 3 weeks

>later from Washington Union Station but that was it

>for those 2 carriers.

> > >

> > >ALSO, all lead engines on the RF&P had to have the

> > >automatic train control devices which were not

> > >compatible with the PRR's or other ATC's. I have

> > not found any references of ACL or SAL steamers

>having the ATC devices AFTER the start of Diesel

>service in the early 1940's. Beside all ACL and SAL

>steamers had been retired by the 1956 period.

> > >

>The ATC device is a key element in the plausibility

>of operations on the RF&P. The Southern mainline did

>not have such a control mechanism.

> > >

>N&W could have theoretically come up from Monroe until

>around that time frame, but it's a 165-mile run for

>that distance from Monroe to DC and I wonder how they

>could have been coaled in between. Water canteens were

>in use by then so that part of the servicing could be

>explained with ease. From what I have read, the K1's

>and K-2's were all retired by or during 1957 or

>perhaps early 1958 but once again I would defer to a

>more knowledgeable authority on that. I definitely

>question if their range could even closely approximate

>165-miles without being watered.

>

>In the excursion days when 611 was run from Lynchburg

>to Manassas, I remember them coaling the engine at

>each end with a crane.

>

>That's what I can offer from here and if this steam

>report can be confirmed, I would find it most

>interesting and enlightening.

> > >

>The first reported returning steam operation into the

>region since 1954 was the General in March or April

>1962 and it DID come up on the RF&P as I remember in

>my reading.

>

>Bob Cohen

> > >

> > >

> > >-------------------------------------------------

> > >Message: 1

> > >Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 08:45:37 -0500

> > >From: NW Mailing List <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> > >Subject: Re: Classic Calendar faux pas?

> > >To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> > >Message-ID:

> > ><001101c839a0$9f365db0$2f01a8c0 at 601ek604>

> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

> > >

> > >Don't know about the engine, Mark (except that it

> > >wouldn't have been an N&W one) but the Atlantic

> > Coast

> > >Line didn't go to Alexandria. That crossing was the

> > >Richmond, Fredericksburg and Potomac going over the

> > >Southern main line. The ACL didn't get any closer

> > to

> > >Alexandria than Richmond. The C&O came into

> > Alexandria

> > >over the Southern from Charlottesville.  The ACL

> > and

> > >SAL trains came in over the RF&P.

> > >>

> > >> Ed King

> > >

> > >>   ----- Original Message -----

> > >>   From: NW Mailing List

> > >>   To: NW Mailing List

> > >>   Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 5:52 AM

> > >>   Subject: Classic Calendar faux pas?

> > >>

> > >OK History Buffs!  When I was very young, We lived

> > in

> > >Alexandria, just 1/5 mile from the crossing of

>Southern tracks and Atlantic Coast Line tracks(CSX,

>ATL, Seaboard?). I believe it was spring of 58, but

>possibly '59. Mid morining. Mom was cleaning the 2nd

> > >floor windows and called me to see a STEAM ENGINE

> > >coming north into Alexandria. I missed actually

> > seeing the engine, but saw the smoke rising from the

> > trees. As a Steam engine was by that time an unusual

> > event, I was wondering If anybody had any idea what

>engine it was? It almost HAD to be a Norfolk and

>Western K or J, and pulling one of the Southern

>trains.

> > >

> > >Mark Lindsey

>

> > >NW-Mailing-List at nwhs.org

> > >To change your subscription go to

> >

> >http://list.nwhs.org/mailman/options/nw-mailing-list

> > >Browse the NW-Mailing-List archives at

> > >http://list.nwhs.org/pipermail/nw-mailing-list/

>  ------------------------------

> >

> > I'm not an expert on the geography and wasn't even

> > born then, but my bet would be on the "honorary

>steam engine" -- an Alco diesel.

> >

> > Andre Jackson and/or Lisa Burrows

> > Life is short; update your anti-virus software

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> > To: "NW Mailing List" <nw-mailing-list at nwhs.org>

> > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2007 9:50 AM

> > Subject: Re: Steam in Alexandria in 1958-59?

> >

> >

> > > Gee Bob...

> > >

> > > I dunno.  I started Grade school in '61, so I

> > wouldn't be home. It was mid morning (9-11am) as I

>remember. I was after '56, because I was just too

>young. That makes it '57 thru  '59. It was most likely

>Spring (70% chance) as my mom was doing spring house

>cleaning, and at the time she noticed it and called to

>me, she was cleaning the outsides of the 2nd floor

>windows. We lived less than 1/2 mile from the RF&P/SRR

>overpass.

> > >

> > > could their be any records of SOUTHERN passenger

> > trains that, because  of a breakdown, been pulled by

>either a J or K??  Maybe even from Petersburg, Bristol

>or somewhere north of where N&W turned over the trains

>to SRR power?

> > >

> > > Their is an 'outside' chance that it MIGHT have

> > been the General. When during the year might it have

>arrived?

> > >

> > >

> > > Mark Lindsey

> > >

> > > On Dec 9, 2007, at 9:22 AM, NW Mailing List wrote:

> > >

> > > Mark, Ed and all:

> > >

> > > According to Lloyd Stagner in his last of Steam

> > > articles, the final C&O steam run was I think in

> > WV in January 1957.

> > >

> > > As for Reading and their famous T-1's, there was a

>visitation to the area from one of these but that

>was not until mid-August 1964 I think and was part of

>a Philadelphia-Washington excursion. They tended to

>stay on or near home rails for the most part and the

>Reading Rambles were run from 1959-1964 when they

>ceased.

>

>As an addendum, the General also visited the DC area

>in 1963 as well as 1962, the major difference being

>that from what I have discerned in went no further

>north than Alexandria in 1963 as opposed to staying at

>Washington Union Station and the Navy Yard the

>previous year. If we remember, 1962 was the 100th

>Anniversary of the Andrews' Raid on the old Western &

>Atlantic RR.

>

>I know that the St. Elizabeth's engine, the 0-4-0

>Oil-burning Porter which now resides at the Baltimore

>& Ohio RR Museum in Baltimore, was active on the other

>side of the River until the latter 1960's. I

>personally remember seeing this in operation chugging

>its' way up hill with a car or two of coal, while I

>was stuck in traffic on nearby South Capitol Street in

>the morning rush hour. This was in the 1965-1967

>period. I don't think this engine would have strayed

>over to south of Pot Yard as you describe but that is

>a slim possibility, which also brings up the fireless

>cooker or two which might have been in use at either

>the Alexandria Power Plant or down on the RF&P near

>Cherry Hill. Maybe even the old Buzzard's Point Pepco

>plant had a fireless cooker as well?

> > >

>Maybe even a real smokey Alco?

>

>I can't figure which, what or if any steam engine

>would have been in the region in that period.

>Something like that would surely have attracted

>attention and other reports would have surfaced

>before this time.

> > >

>Might it have been in 1962 when W&A "The General" came

>to town?

> > >

> > > Bob Cohen

> > >

> > >

> > >> Mark,

> > >>

> > >> I don't believe C&O or Sourthern was operating

> > any steam locomotives as late as 1957. Does any one

>remember when Reading began their rambles behind

>their 4-8-4 and whether that ever strayed to foreign

>roads?

> > >>

> > >> Sam Putney

> > >>

> > >>  ----- Original Message -----

> > >>  From: NW Mailing List

> > >>  To: NW Mailing List

> > >>  Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2007 9:48 AM

> > >>  Subject: Re: Classic Calendar faux pas?

> > >>

> > >>

> > >>  Thanks Ed King!!

> > >>

> > >>

> > > D'Oh! RF&P. I totally forgot about them!!

> > (Senility is transparent to the user)

> > >

> > > So would C&O have run a steam engine into

> > Alexandria after 1957? I seem to remember a story

>about a SRR passenger train being brought into

>Alexandria because the Diesels died on the road.

>Possibly more of that senility thing though ....

> > >>

> > >>  Mark Lindsey

>

>

>

> 

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