[N&W] Re: Steam Train Restoration

Tue May 25 22:47:39 EDT 2004

I agree on running the Steam Engines became more of a job than working on
them.  I worked out at the Illinois Railway Museum for several years.  I
fired the 2-10-0 for a summer, and it was a lot of work, from the early
morning start time till we lowered the fire in the evening.  I enjoyed every
bit of time I spent there, and learned many things.  Being one of the more
active members, I spent many an hour wrenching on what some would call pure
junk.  Spent a week in Texas working on a 2-10-2.  We had to replace a brake
cylinder between drivers 3 and 4, and guess who got to climb up in there.
It was also neat working with the Southern Pacific yard crew testing the
brakes in their yard.  They pulled us around with a GP9 and GP38.  I really
liked (and miss) those trips.

The best part for me was working on the restoration projects (a 3 truck shay
and a 2-8-0).  I learned many things, including riveting (a highly useful
skill today) and some basic machining skills.  One other thing that I did
learned, was the lack of real interest in restoration.  Many of the guys
that came out only showed up when trains were running, and when it was time
to crawl into the firebox and clean out the grates, the weekend warriors
were no where to be found.  I have been out of the loop for a few years now
do to various other things, and the 2.5 hour drive through Chicago.  One day
I will go back and help out again, but the older I get, the less time I seem
to have.  By the way, I was the youngest guy there, by at least 10 years.
At the time I was 20.

Jason Annen

----- Original Message -----
From: N&W Mailing List <mailing-list at nwhs.org>
To: N&W Mailing List <mailing-list at nwhs.org>
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: Steam Train Restoration

 > Sam and all curious,
 >
 > I am a member of the Atlanta Chapter NRHS and we operate a museum where we
 > have a collection of steam engines as well as an ex-USATC 0-6-0 #5050
 > (currently painted in final job Georgia Power #97). To restore and
maintain
 > our engines we have a steam department where the ages ranges from myself
20
 > years old to Mr. Bill Purdie 86 I believe. And I am not the only young one
 > either we have approx. 7 men in our 20's and love our engines.
 >
 > Being completely honest running 97 on the third Saturday of each month is
 > not my favorite part of the job, it's seeing Atlanta & West Point 4-6-2
 > #290 slowly get restored.
 >
 > Jason Greene
 > Lawrenceville, GAN&W/Sou Modeler
 > _____________________________________________________________
 > For those who are concerned about younger people developing an interest in
 > steam restoration and operation, let me give you an example.  In 1998, I
got a
 > cab ride in ex-Southern 4501 at Tennessee Valley in Chattanooga.  I got to
 > talk a little with the crew, when they weren't actually running the loco,
and
 > found that the fireman was the engineer's 16-year old son.  I know enough
 > about steam to know that you don't just throw coal into the firebox door,
and
 > it was quite evident that this youngster knew what he was doing and was
 > working a good fire.  A good way to start is with youngsters in your own
 > family, unlike my failure to involve my two sons with my interests, and
you
 > may develop an interest in such areas, if not now, later in life.
 > - John Manion
 >    Denver, CO
 >
 >  >  >Speaking about steam restoration the younger gen's interest ...
 >  >  >
 >  >  >The sad part we have seen is that the younger generation has
 >  >  >little interest in these machines and this project would be a
 >  >  >public support and particupation effort to gain younger interest.
 >  >  >Any suggestions for informational sources?
 >  >  >
 >  >  >     Sam Saufley
 >  >  >     Educational Program Director at Valley VoTech Center
 >  >
 >  > Sammy, my boy ... What in the heck are you talking about? You talking
bout
 >  > Earth? USA? or ???
 >  >
 >  > There are more young people interested in steam these days than there
were
 >  > ten years ago when North Carolina (not to mention other states) was
 >  > catching a mainline steam train on an average of once a month (which
is, by
 >  > the way, is exactly 12 more times per year than we see now). Actually,
when
 >  > you really crunch the numbers, with Spencer and Charlotte both doing 4
 >  > trips per year, Asheville and Greensboro twice each, plus sometimes
 >  > Winston-Salem and other operators, the typical number exceeded 12 steam
 >
 >  > excursions per year. And yet ... With all that steam action so close
and
 >  > easy to access, signs of teen foaming for steam back then were rare.
 >  >
 >  > It's my opinion that while there's less active steam these days, there
is
 >  > more serious interest from the "younger generation" (Sam prob means
 >  > teenagers, but "younger" includes a very broad range for many of us).
 >  > Granted, probably fewer than 5 boys age 14 out of every 100 have an
 >  > interest in steam and fewer still have a passion, but that's not a bad
 >  > proportion. Cumulatively speaking over the past half century, model
 >  > railroading, train chasing and all the other railroad hobbies have not
been
 >  > huge draws for young people (certainly MUCH smaller than sports
 >  > participation). I wonder if we even beat out coin collectors or bug
foamers?
 >  >
 >  > For almost 20 years, from about when I was 15 till I was maybe 35, my
 >  > problem with trains was that there were so many fine women out there
...
 >
 >  > and they were more easily available ... I mean the chasing was great.
And I
 >  > suspect that same hobby interference is available in abundance these
days.
 >  > So ... That we get any young steam foamers at all is simply terrific.
 >  >
 >  > When you are at Spencer, ask about how long is the line for future
weekend
 >  > engineers (a rather depressed situation of recent with all the out of
 >  > service steam). When I first became involved at Spencer in the late
80s, it
 >  > did not take long to work one's way to the top. Now, unless you can
 >  > volunteer on weekdays, the line and time are both lengthy.
 >  >
 >  > And, just curious ... What affect do you think the Thomas The Tank
 >  > phenomenon has had on "younger" peoples' interest in steam? Maybe you
ought
 >  > to come to a train show and see young people who come and clearly love
 >  > steam. Ten years ago, there were very few young people who came to
train
 >  > shows, much less had a steam interest. Now, that is remarkably
different.
 >  >
 >
 >  > I am a dealer at a lot of shows and I'll ask a 4-year old kid if he
likes
 >  > Thomas and Percy, et al. Well ... Either he or his Mom will tell me
that he
 >  > left Thomas in the dust earlier in the year and now he wants either the
 >  > real thing or models of the real thing ... or both.
 >  >
 >  > And the girls ... I have been so surprised by this -- There are so many
 >  > little girls gung ho about trains ... and it is great. They come up to
my
 >  > table (I sell RR videos) and they watch the videos and tell me what's
going
 >  > on. They ask questions and they give opinions (such as, they like steam
 >  > better than diesels ... or that CSX's new paint is boring). That did
not
 >  > happen at all ten years ago.
 >  >
 >  > Sam ... I'd say you need to approach this thing with the realization
that
 >  > there is a huge (relatively speaking) interest in steam amongst young
 >  > people, even though the numbers might not be nearly as large as you'd
like
 >  > ... or as you think shows a valiant interest.
 >  >
 >
 >  > One more thing ... That teenagers or early 20s people don't tend to
join
 >  > NRHS type groups should not be taken as a sign of no interest. My guess
is
 >  > that it's the "club thing" they don't like ... not the trains ... or
 >  > railroad history. We've yet to figure out a new way to package interest
 >  > groups that attracts them ... and my guess is that we should be
watching
 >  > them for organizational hints instead of us trying to get them to do it
our
 >  > way.
 >  >
 >  > Later ... Bob Loehne
 >  > _______________________________________________________________
 >  > Sam,
 >  > As a member of a current restoration effort, I can say, restoring a
 >  > locomotive to fully operational status is more than a major
undertaking. I
 >  > think I'd tell the parties interested in restoring the Berkshire they
are
 >  > going to need more than a couple of industrial technical engineers to
 >  > accomplish the job. Consider the following:
 >  > 1. For starters, there is the issue of capital. Restoration can easily
run
 >
 >  > over a million dollars depending how the locomotive was keep for the
last 60
 >  > years. If housed out in the open subject to the elements, in all
likelihood,
 >  > 75% of the rigid and flexible stay bolts will have to be replace just
for
 >  > starters.
 >  > 2. The entire boiler must be inspected and pass rigid standards and
pass
 >  > government certification before a fire can be lit.
 >  > 3. All old asbestos insulation will have to be removed and disposed of.
 >  > 4. There is the issue of tools, a machine shop, and welding/fabricating
 >  > facilities i.e consider what if you had to replace the mud ring or
steam
 >  > delivery pipes. Who would make them?
 >  > 5. Your going to need a very large shop or engine house to do the work.
It's
 >  > not practical to do it outside.
 >  > 6. Last but not least, there is the issue of time. The effort to
restore the
 >  > locomotive I'm involved with has been going on for several years with a
few
 >  > more to go. Our project now has four fulltime employees and countless
 >  > volunteers such as myself.
 >  >
 >
 >  > These are but a few of the things that must be faced. However, if the
 > funding
 >  > is there, I can say there is no better way to spend your time than to
 >  > restore a locomotive to operating condition.
 >  >
 >  > Regards,
 >  >
 >  > Charles Cantrell
 >  >
 >  > Ps. You requested copies of prints/drawings, but forgot to mention what
type
 >  > of Berkshire your need the prints for.
 >  >
 >
 >